Tascam DP02cf Demo #4: Beatles jam!

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Hey Dave :)

Currently listening. The production is quite extensive here. Sounds real good. I see that you're liking the DP02cf, which seems pretty capable but I do miss the tape vibe. Any chance of doing that same song on the 246? :confused:

BTW, love the setup. What's underneath the white sheet? :eek::D
 
Cool Dave. Sounded cool. You are using the setup we talked about awhile back (front end mixer into the DP's inputs); glad to hear it works...and great at that!

I heard another thing about the DP-02 that worries me. Along with not being able to bus the two inputs to one track, I read a review on Harmony Music that said you can't use the effect sends while recording (only afterwords on the mix.) True?

If so, I'll overcome it if I want to print some effects by just using my 488mkII's mixer all the way down the chain, but I'd like a little versatility with the DP-02's mixer! I like using my outboard effects unit during tracking sometimes, or at least have the option to do so...

I know they made these new digital PortaStudio's as simple as possible but come on! Unless you just want to record one track/one mic-instr. productions they've made it a real pain to do anything even remotely complex...

Still, great track and the sound was excellent. Keep 'em coming Dave...
 
cjacek said:
Hey Dave :)
Currently listening. The production is quite extensive here. Sounds real good.
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Thanx, man! It's a good-time, fun & bouncy little tune, eh?

cjacek said:
I see that you're liking the DP02cf, which seems pretty capable but I do miss the tape vibe. Any chance of doing that same song on the 246? :confused:
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This one used 8 tracks (with 1 track muted in mixdown), so I guess the answer is "no". I'm not too keen on 4-track bouncing schemes, but I might do it very occasionally as an afterthought. Fortunately, I thought ahead & "scoped" this one at the outset for "8" tracks, and I think it turned out pretty well. NOT doing a 4-track jam, getting all worked up, then hitting the wall and looking for "workarounds" afterward. No'ffense. U understand. I don't see "bouncing" in the analog world as any saviour or anything, just something you might have to do occasionally for lack of alternatives.:eek:;)

I chose the DP02cf to record this one, vs. the 388 or 488, or 38.

I felt I could get a bit higher fidelity on the CF vs. the cassette 8-track (488), while mixing down onboard on the CF and avoiding the soundcard hassles I've been experiencing lately.

With the CF vs. the 388,... it was a bit more of a "convenience" item. ATM, the CF was a bit more accessible with less setup time, but I'd have to do a lot of rummaging around to find a reel of tape. Simple as that! Blasphemous,... I know! I just needed a bit of convenience, and we all know how you spell that: D-I-G-I-T-A-L.:eek:;) Same consideration about the ol'puter soundcard & mixing down off analog from the 388, vs. the DP02cf. I feel I can get a slightly better mixdown by mixing internally on the CF, vs. the soundcard route. NOT TO MENTION the prospect of having to lug around or move the 388 for mixdown to the ol'puter,... but I injured my back lately and this is a no-go ATM. However, these "soundcard" mixdown concerns may change if I ever get the FireOne set up. My "soundcard" mixes are decent enough, but the DP02 has it's definite advantages with internal/onboard mixdown (stereo master track), 'less you consider the hassle of exporting files and lugging the machine around back & forth to hook to the new'puter. Out of my 5 functional 'puters, the DP02cf only interfaces to one,... (the XP machine), so it's a bit of tradeoff with things vs. convenience. Moving the unit's not too bad of a hassle, it's small & light!

For the CF vs. the 38 it's a no-brainer, 'cause I don't have either 38 in 100% ready-to-go working order or fully patched up. Forget about recording projects,... have you seen my list of fixit projects?:eek:;)

None of this ATM precludes me working back stictly on analog at a moment's notice on a new project tho', (all future/TBD). I'll admit, tape does have a "vibe". I still like "tape" recording. My on-hand stocks of tape are full, and I mean FULL!:eek:;)

cjacek said:
BTW, love the setup. What's underneath the white sheet? :eek::D
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! The Great Oz has spoken!:eek:;)
 
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My friend,...

JRSIV said:
Cool Dave. Sounded cool. You are using the setup we talked about awhile back (front end mixer into the DP's inputs); glad to hear it works...and great at that!...
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Thanx, so much! Hey baby, I'd never recommend you do something that I'd not do myself! Anyway, sometimes a technical forum like this is a bunch of blah-blah-blah, but when you throw down tracks like this it brings it all back into perspective,... or so I think!

JRSIV said:
I heard another thing about the DP-02 that worries me. Along with not being able to bus the two inputs to one track, I read a review on Harmony Music that said you can't use the effect sends while recording (only afterwords on the mix.) True?...
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I'm afraid so.:confused::eek::(

JRSIV said:
If so, I'll overcome it if I want to print some effects by just using my 488mkII's mixer all the way down the chain, but I'd like a little versatility with the DP-02's mixer! ...
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You and me alike, dude, but u get what u pay for!:eek:;)

JRSIV said:
I like using my outboard effects unit during tracking sometimes, or at least have the option to do so.........
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That's a reasonable & common enough concern, IMO.

JRSIV said:
I know they made these new digital PortaStudio's as simple as possible but come on! Unless you just want to record one track/one mic-instr. productions they've made it a real pain to do anything even remotely complex......
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Refer back to statement 2 lines above! What's wrong with this picture! You & I are possibly the only 2 people for miles who would complain about such a thing. The rest (I think) are oblivious (to this issue)!

Baby,... this is the 21st century,... the Digital Age, if you will,... and there's almost no concept of input mixing, EQ pre-emphasis or buss-assign routing! The new philo'y is to record each track discretely and bounce them together in Post. Hey,... come to the party! [PSYCH!] Anyway, it's a whole different philosophy to recording and mixing in this 'puter driven modern era,... no doubt. Get used to old school techniques and concepts being forsaken,... but we fanatics will always stick to our guns,... you & me!

JRSIV said:
Still, great track and the sound was excellent. ...
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Gosh, thx agn!

JRSIV said:
Keep 'em coming Dave...
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Aw, you know it! Rock & Roll lives right here, baby!:eek:;)

Thanx for giving me your 2 minutes. Come again!
 
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You said it very eloquently Dave. The new recording/mixing process that ProTools etc... has brought to the home studio is just not my bag. I try to use DAW's and "change over" for good but...I CAN'T! I don't know...for making demo's or just recording for fun I just love the feel of analog tracking and mixing.

I think people who use DAW's as their only recording medium start to get away from the "aural" part of recording in favor of a "visual" style. Looking at waveforms and constantly thinking about all the possibilities in front of them keeps them from committing to a sound and then really honing in on making it great...with just their ears.

My dream rig would be the Tascam 488mkII's mixer with a hard disk recorder attached. But since Tascam won't make that happen I'm improvising by making the DP-02 a sort of 8 track recorder only and using the 488 for all mixing. It looks like I have to now. I'm a little concerned about noise with all the extra connections, but I think the digital recording format will still be quieter than the cassette.

I'm exited about using the best of both worlds by taking drum and bass tracks which were recorded on the 488, transferring them to the DP-02 and then adding vox and guitars, etc...
 
Dave nice go, at least yours works. Have been taking a stab at this digital recorder from hell and getting no where fast. I can talk into a mic and get a play back but when I try to record myself playing guitar with a backing track going on the stereo nothing comes out. The sound levels seem very low even though vol. levels are maxxed out. Am using a 4 gig card and did the format in the beginning. I also tried to put wave backing tracks on the card by inserting the card in my PC and transferring the wave files. I can't find them using the 02. No machine should be this hard to operate. I've gone through the manual several times, my eyes are crossing. I just want to do a simple recording, adding my guitar to a backing track. No vocals. No luck! :(
 
My friend,...

If you are new to the DP02 or digital all-in-one'rs, the process can seem complex, but the good new is it's not.

There's the "Assign" function to assign the A and B inputs to actual recorded tracks. I don't know how well the manual covers this, but it seems to be a stumbling block with new users.

Importing backing tracks is another question that comes up often. For the DP02 to recognize an imported Wav file, it must be rendered to 16-bit/44.1kHz/MONO format, not stereo. The DP02 will not recognize a typical stereo Wav file, tho' you can move them on/off the CF card at will like any other file. Not sure if the manual emphasizes this enough. Must be a mono wave file.

I think there's an at-a-glance definition of functions and their keystroke sequences on a page or two at the back of the manual. Maybe that would be best to refer to for the simplest explanation vs. the body of the manual.

I've read the DP02 manual, but I usually take in a machine like this at first glance, 'cause I've been using Portastudios forever & I'm familiar with the idiosyncrasies that digital brings to the game, like... SONG/CREATE/ENTER,... LOAD/SAVE,... SET-IN/SET-OUT,... COPY/PASTE,... Instantaneous-RTZ. You just don't get that with analog!:eek:;)

As for levels, I think if you just barely "tickle" the OL LED on the A/B inputs, it's okay. Just don't spend too much time in the red. A very slight blink on the highest peaks is okay & won't ruin the recording. From there, try to ride the level meter about 2/3~3/4 up the meter, without constantly slamming the top. Back it off to (again) just "tickle" the top of the LCD "meter" bar, just a bit, and you're okay. It can be hard to set levels on a unit like this because the LCD meters are rather tiny, and there's only a "line" segment at the very top of the meter,... not in "red" or any color scheme to emphasize levels. (This ain't your Dad's 488mkII !!!):eek::eek:;)

Thanx for checking me out & best of luck with your Tascam DP02cf. I think it's a decent piece of gear that sounds good and competes well in the field of digital 8-track all-in-one'rs, in large part because it's a genuine "Portastudio", which means quality, innovation & ease of use by definition,....

(or a Portastud in my case.):eek:;)
 
cool recording. It has a lot of energy and you can tell you were having fun doing it - I thought it sounded pretty "live" too. those 60's pop tempos & beats, reminds me of how pop songs used to sound and why they were as much fun for the muscians as the audience.
 
That's where I'm at, man!

Thx for taking the time!
If it's not fun, it's not produced.
That's Davemania.
It's a nice, poppy little number, eh!:eek:;)
Thx. Come again!
 
JRSIV said:
I'm improvising by making the DP-02 a sort of 8 track recorder only and using the 488 for all mixing. It looks like I have to now. I'm a little concerned about noise with all the extra connections, but I think the digital recording format will still be quieter than the cassette.
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I had the 488 and now own a 688 and I never had a problem with anything not being quiet enough on cassette when using the dbx and cheap condencer mics.I hope my 688 will get very,very,very old
 
I agree.

The 488/688 sound quality is quite good. Dbx NR is very effective at quashing tape hiss. Cr02/typeII tapes are quieter than ferric oxide, too.

I have 3 488mkII demos on record.:eek:;)
/DA
 
dug it dave

nice job dave....sounds really good....i always check out your stuff and when i first got into HR a few years back with my 424 you were the most helpful person around and i hope i didnt drive you crazy....strange but i scored a bunch of cassettes Saturday as I have been going back and forth trying to combine the korg d-888 and the teac2300 and the 424, and now i have just been having fun doing everything on the 424...still my favorite sound even now that i have "a little knowledge"...bottom line regardless of what i read, hear or experiment is one word: fidelity....imho nothing still beats tape and the input track assign tricks of the 424 is a lot more fun to play with, even against virtual tracks...


424 still floats my boat...just wish i could sync it with the korg somehow and use the 424 for drums...i still dont use the puter for the korg which came with cubase and track 8, than mixdown to two, and on and on....i usually catch myself mixing down 8 to the masterlink and bouncin back to the Korg..

the thing that always makes me stop and crack up is rewinding on the korg as compared to tape decks...when the tape rewinds it always gave me a moment to stretch my back and light up a smoke....

clevo
 
clevodrummer said:
nice job dave....sounds really good....i always check out your stuff and when i first got into HR a few years back with my 424 you were the most helpful person around and i hope i didnt drive you crazy....strange but i scored a bunch of cassettes Saturday as I have been going back and forth trying to combine the korg d-888 and the teac2300 and the 424, and now i have just been having fun doing everything on the 424...still my favorite sound even now that i have "a little knowledge"...bottom line regardless of what i read, hear or experiment is one word: fidelity....imho nothing still beats tape and the input track assign tricks of the 424 is a lot more fun to play with, even against virtual tracks...


424 still floats my boat...just wish i could sync it with the korg somehow and use the 424 for drums...i still dont use the puter for the korg which came with cubase and track 8, than mixdown to two, and on and on....i usually catch myself mixing down 8 to the masterlink and bouncin back to the Korg..

the thing that always makes me stop and crack up is rewinding on the korg as compared to tape decks...when the tape rewinds it always gave me a moment to stretch my back and light up a smoke....

clevo
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Yeah, of course!

Thanks, Bra'h!:eek:;)
 
pehjott said:
I had the 488 and now own a 688 and I never had a problem with anything not being quiet enough on cassette when using the dbx and cheap condencer mics.I hope my 688 will get very,very,very old
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To be clear. I love the 488mkII and with decent engineering skills, dbx and good sources it can turn out great recordings, with totally negligible noise. I'm going to digital with the DP-02 to take advantage of the editing and just to be able to mix and match both formats in my demos. If I want to start a drum track and bass track on the 488, transfer them over to the DP-02 and then take advantage of the clarity of digital for vocals, guitars and ???...I think I can mix the best of both worlds together and experiment in the process.

I was also referring to using the 488 as a front end mixer to the DP-02 as the 02's mixer prohibits any track bussing and printing of outboard FX on recording. I was just wondering if the increased flexibility would cause some noise floor build up? Either way, I love the Tascam machines. Especially the analog Portastudios and for demos and even project tracks they can be powerful tools when used correctly.
 
My friend,...

I came upon an issue with the DP-02cf and noise floor. Not sure if you'll find the same.

The DP-02's preamps are rather weak on the top end, but when boosted to full amplitude would indicate a noticeable bit of self-nose.

However, when using adjacent mixers and outboard equipment, I noticed that when the DP-02 was plugged in, it's poorly shielded inline power module would induce noticeable noise on external equipment, such as mics/mixers, etc. I did A/B testing while determining this.

The good news is that with conservative gain staging, plus the recording noise floor of the DP-02 is quite low,... the end result was still fairly good, and noise problem negligible.

This post applies to your concern of adding noise to the chain when front-ending the DP-02 with the 488mkII. The concern is real.:eek:;)

Maybe give it a test yourself and see/report back. THx.
 
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