OT?? Guitar etiquette?

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Mr. C

Mr. C

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I wasn't sure where to post this, but this is the guitar forum, I play guitar, and I'm asking a question about guitar playing in a band situation. Sorry if this is long:
So I put together a band, I talked to different people to get it going. This one guy sings great so I mentioned to him that I was putting together a band and we needed a singer. He said he was interested so that was that. Problem is he's a friend of my 19yr old stepson and somehow my stepson weaseled his way into the band. (His mom and aunt were bugging me too.) Now I swear he is a natural on guitar, and admittedly solos better than I. The problems are: 1. He just starts soloing whenever he feels like it in a song even after I specified the few songs I would like to solo in. 2. He keeps bringing up different songs we should do and starts playing them in between songs we are practicing. I hate this because before he weaseled his way in we had put together a list of some songs to start with; half selected by me half by the singer. I'll admit I like to have some control over what we play, but I'm of course flexible. My stepson just keeps bringing up songs randomly and he just irritates me to no end. This is probably a rant more than anything else, but if you took the time to read all of this maybe you have some suggestions. Thanks all!
(Oh, I'm 47 and the other band members are all in their
30's in case that info. is useful in any way.)
 
I'd suggest that what's rankling you (aside from your stepson weaseling his way in :D) is a randomness - a lack of attention to structure - in the whole situation.

Have everyone pay attention, and present a plan for rehearsals. As in:
-- Silence between songs unless you are actively trading ideas for those songs
-- A dedicated time to discuss and democratically decide on new material
-- Acceptable sound levels, etc.

.....and let a format for rehearsals be decided based on those beginnings.

If it's a collaborative band - in other words, if you're not the "leader" paying other members as employees - then you have to be willing to compromise, or just leave the situation if it's not to your liking.

Good luck!
 
OK, book a gig. Next, tell him you're going to do a song titled "Jazz Odyssey", where you will all take turns soloing. He goes first. When he acts like he's done after however many minutes he wants, have everyone in the band make obvious body language cues that he ought to keep soloing. Repeat until he walks off the stage in disgust :D
 
i know what your problem is, and it's very simple: he's 19. if i found myself in a band w/ a 19-year-old (and a GUITARIST to boot) with such delicate political implications, i'd probably just fake cancer and quit. :D

really, there's no easy way to do this. if the rest of you are serious about your band, then he has to either respect the more experienced members and play ball or walk. that's just how it is.

what do the other members think? are they just as irritiated by it? if so, you have a majority and might be able to bargain with him, as in, "listen dude, you're obviously a talented player and you bring some serious chops to the table, but we also have established songs and you have to play a role like everyone else. every single one of us has a role to play, and one common role we ALL have is to SERVE THE SONG."

idk, there are a lot of factors to consider. ultimately, though, there's no way i could tolerate it. i remember what an oblivious dick i was at 19, and that's why i don't have kids. :D
 
mshilarious said:
OK, book a gig. Next, tell him you're going to do a song titled "Jazz Odyssey", where you will all take turns soloing. He goes first. When he acts like he's done after however many minutes he wants, have everyone in the band make obvious body language cues that he ought to keep soloing. Repeat until he walks off the stage in disgust :D
Click to expand...

surely you don't think this will work. you HAVE been to guitar center on a saturday afternoon, no? :D
 
I'd say communication is the issue... you're not communicating properly with him. Also, the age gap. I remember when I could just keep playing for hours straight on through... now, mid 30's and i need a smoke break after song 3. hahahahah

Is the type of music he's playing match what you guys are trying to do? If not, then you'd be better off sitting down with him, privately, and explaining that what he's doing is just irritating. If he's as talented as you say, then he can either leave and simply drop into another band that better suits him... or he can cut his shit out, and play nice.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I like Zaphod's idea about structure; that is I think what irritates me the most. One practice I asked him if he understood the timing in a song and he replied"Huh" with a dopy grin on his face. I've talked to the singer before about my hesitations on having my stepson in the band, but I'm a little unsure where he stands (in some way I think he agrees with me, but then goes along with my stepson because they're friends).

The songs are fine he wants to do to some degree, but he goes from one to another idea and we still haven't played through the list we have yet. What really pisses me off is I already talked to him about the solos. I just picked a few songs, bluesy, that I can do pretty well. Other songs with more tempo I'll leave to him because he can do better than I.

Well I guess I'll have to sit down with him again. I just have to make it clear to him what I expect. (And I'll check with the others for their take on this.) PITA 19yr olds!!!
Drossfile...It's too late for me, with my blended family we have 8 altogether, from 7yrs to 25 yrs old. :eek:
 
I don't really have anything constructive to say, except to point out that I have never, in my life, nor has anyone in my shop (which is going on 40 years old now), EVER met a single guitar player who got a single gig because of his ability to solo. Even Hiram Bullock, who frequently gets hired to put solos on things, gets the gig because he is a GREAT rhythm guitar player. So yeah, I really don't care how good someone's solos are (at least, not if I'm starting a band). If he is a great improviser, cool, but if he's not I can make him write his solos (kind of like what Sting and Stewart made Andy Summers do - give him 8 bars, and tell him to play the same damn thing every night), as long as his rhythm playing is great, I'll be happy.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Mr. C said:
1. He just starts soloing whenever he feels like it in a song even after I specified the few songs I would like to solo in.
Click to expand...

I've kicked I guy out of a band for that. Interestingly he was actually a bassist. He would keep breaking into some shredding shit on his bass mid tune, while constantly turning his amp louder and louder. And yes, he was a lot younger than us. He had to go. He eventually came back as the drummer after the previous drummer took exception to us describing his drumming style as 'tinkery fuckshit' and left.

I've generally had a reverse issue with guitarists though. I'm not the greatest guitarist in the world, but (apart from the previously mentioned band where me and the other guitarist worked well together) but I've always ended up in bands where the other guitarist just sucks. So I have to follow him because he can't follow me. On one occasion I got a rash of shit from the other guitarist because he was just playing a G chord followed by an A chord over and over, and I decided to try and make it more interesting, not by shredding, but arpeggiating the progression, changing tone or effects, adding a melody over the top it etc. You know, the sort of things musicians do when they're forced to play the same boring chord progression for 30 minutes. He said "I don't like your style, there's too much variety". I quit the band the next day.

Being in a band seems more trouble than it's worth. It seems so hard to find rational and reliable musicians who aren't full of fucking ego, at least round my way anyway.

Actually that's not fair, it really is just guitarists. They piss me off. Unfortunately for the music I want to play, I need another guitarist.

I'm sticking to doing it all myself until the event of a freak occurance that I actually meet someone I can work with. The only guitarist I really know who doesn't have his head up his ass is too busy with life stuff and thinks he's too old to join a band at 32. :eek:
 
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Take Two: much better idea! "Group improvision" :D Like you've been listening to Ornette Coleman ;) Every time he breaks into an unscheduled solo, everybody in the band starts improvising, preferably in different keys, or no key at all :D
 
Light said:
...(kind of like what Sting and Stewart made Andy Summers do - give him 8 bars, and tell him to play the same damn thing every night)...
Click to expand...

Man, that's HARSH!


"Bands are for idiots." -Tim Foley
 
BEST SOLUTION I HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN:

Years ago I was watching a band which included my local guitar hero. He was great, and the other guys, well, not so much. He was a gracious player though, and gave everyone else their piece of the stage and music. He did not have an ego.
This other guy was noodling on his solo for like 48 bars an everyone else in the band was kind of giving each other the eye. This guy was "lost", both musically and by his surroundings.
My guitar hero casually walks over to him and PULLS HIS CORD FROM THE GUITAR! Everybody laughed and the kid "got the message".
 
Talk to the band (by which I mean, those of you who are actually playing together) ahead of time, get them on board with the following plan:

1. Prior to the next practice, bring up the idea of learning song structures.
2. Agree to the structure for each song.
3. When Jimi Van Malmsteen starts meedling inappropriately, everybody else will stop playing immediately, and look at him silently, just as if he had trainwrecked the take. Which he did.
4. Tell him, "that's wrong, we'll try it again."
5. Start from the top.
6. He'll either get it, or quit.
7. ???
8. Profit.
 
mshilarious said:
Take Two: much better idea! "Group improvision" :D Like you've been listening to Ornette Coleman ;) Every time he breaks into an unscheduled solo, everybody in the band starts improvising, preferably in different keys, or no key at all :D
Click to expand...

Exactly. :D
 
A few things I see going on based on your short version:

1) there's more about your son-in-law that bugs you besides his lack of focus at practice.

2) Your son-in-law is 19 and doesn't have the ability to focus for more than 2 minutes. (Don't bring the girlfriend to practice. :D )

3) the band needs one leader. Thats probably you. Flexibilty and group decisions are great and a nice diplomatic approach to managing a band. But when a decision has to be made or structure needs to be enforced, someone has to do it. Be assertive with him. Not mean, just assertive.

I haven't been in a band in 20 yrs, so take that into consideration when heeding my advice - lol.

All the other suggestions listed above are great!!
 
Pay the other guys in the band $50 each to gang up at the next practice and fire him. Shrug your shoulders and say, "Sorry, man, it was 3 to 1......" :D
 
A band's success has more to do with personality/chemistry than the music. Sounds like this one's doomed.
 
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