Vocal mic for mostly untreated room

[thajeremy]

I am going to copy and paste something that I posted in a a similar thread several years ago....This is what I did before I could afford REAL accoustic treatment....I now have 18 bass traps and they are a big improvement to the blanket idea....but in a pinch, this has gotten the job done for me....



This is not the BEST way to treat a room by any means...but...I have used this in the past with good results...

get some of these...from Walmart though...way cheaper there....
http://www.keysan.com/ksu1712.htm


then get some hooks that will screw into your ceiling. Put the binder clips on the corners of some blankets and hang them on the hooks....

 

[mixsit]

... That's the upside. Now the downside- It is a pretty unforgiving sucker. The proximity field is abrupt,
.. It is also, as I noted above, prone to popping if you get into that nasty proximity field, and I wound up using it with a pop filter in the studio. I'll say this- in its own way, it's a great mic, but it isn't a tool for a beginning vocalist.-Richie

This thread's taken an interesting turn. I've been on a bit of an experimentation phase for a while, trying 'live and live in the studio/rehearsal vocal mic solutions. Emphasis being tone quality, not keeping out room' though.
Jaz, looking at Richard's comments, I'd be interested to know your take on the RP35 as that trait is my one and only bug with the 35' (some guy's are adding a pop filter to them also) and I noticed your vocal track also does have a ton of 150-250. (Side note, I actually like the 22' better in that regard.
A few mics I've tried- live (low stage volume) and/or in-home studio live'- PR35, 20, 22, RE20 &16 (to new to comment-) 4047 (yes, in-home only! ), D5900 (AKG's alt to 3900?), and OM5.

RE20 is King imho. -on the other hand note SM7 gap here so..

 

[dgatwood]

I was ready to buy one for $50 bucks from a used retailer in Woodbury Minn, but I called them and they said something which scared me away. I asked them if they tested it, and they were - fortunately - honest enough to tell me that the mic worked fine in a couple of mixers, but didn't work at all when tested in a couple of other mixers. They say other mics work ok in those mixers, but the D3800 did not work with just any mixer they plugged it into.

Okay, that's a new one. How in hairy heck could a dynamic mic not work with some mixers? Ignoring the obvious "dead mixer" theory, that is.... It either outputs a signal or it doesn't. Okay, maybe if they did something stupid like adapt it down to quarter inch by only using one wire with no transformer and if one of the two wires came unsoldered from the back of the connector inside the mic, but... yikes.

 

[dgatwood]

I was hoping to luck out and pick one up cheap, but they seem to be selling for around $200. I don't move around when I sing, but I'm a little worried about it being so unforgiving of poor technique. If I could get one cheap enough I'd definitely give it a try, since it's hypercardiod and probably a step up from what I have now.

That's the nature of hypercardioid mics. They have a very narrow pickup field. Move very far to either side and you're in trouble. And they have serious proximity effect. Hypercardioid mics have their uses at times, but they probably aren't what you are looking for.

I use D2300S mics on toms to minimize bleed, and I had the same impression of them for vocals---they sound good if you keep back a couple of feet and don't ever move your head. For $12 apiece in a three pack, I was pleasantly surprised. That said, they're not by go-to vocal mic by any means.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Okay, that's a new one. How in hairy heck could a dynamic mic not work with some mixers? Ignoring the obvious "dead mixer" theory, that is.... It either outputs a signal or it doesn't. Okay, maybe if they did something stupid like adapt it down to quarter inch by only using one wire with no transformer and if one of the two wires came unsoldered from the back of the connector inside the mic, but... yikes.

Actually, an aquaintence of mine on this board had the same problem with a pair of Oktava MC012's I picked up for him when my GC was blowing them out for $50 each. It turned out to be due to a tolerance incompatibility between certain cables and the XLR connector on the mic. It is not that unusual, apparently, especially when using a European made mic and a USA made cable, or when the USA cable is being plugged into a Euro-made mixer. Apparently, not all XLR connectors are created quite equal. He switched to a B.L.U.E. quad cable and the problem went away.

And as far as whether the mic will do anything for Jaz-we'll see. If not, I'll be happy to take it back- it's still a bitchin' live piano mic from my point of view. Sometimes that's where the best deals are- in a tool that people didn't know how to use. That's how a $375 mic came to be a blow-out item at GC. I think I have figured the tool out. I'm pretty sure it will give Jaz the sound he wants, and it will largely dial the room out of the equation. The question will be whether it's a tool he can learn to use. I did- the piano never popped it once, and it held quite still, maintaining a perfect distance at all times. It's pretty good on live cello, also.-Richie

 

[soundchaser59]

RE20 is King imho. -on the other hand note SM7 gap here so..

I bridged that gap, and ended up selling the RE20 a few days after I got the SM7. Depends on your need I suppose.

 

[soundchaser59]

It is not that unusual, apparently, especially when using a European made mic and a USA made cable, or when the USA cable is being plugged into a Euro-made mixer.

Makes sense, the guy on the phone said the two mixers the D3800 did not work with were both Behringer mixers.

 

[jaz49]

This thread's taken an interesting turn. I've been on a bit of an experimentation phase for a while, trying 'live and live in the studio/rehearsal vocal mic solutions. Emphasis being tone quality, not keeping out room' though.
Jaz, looking at Richard's comments, I'd be interested to know your take on the RP35 as that trait is my one and only bug with the 35' (some guy's are adding a pop filter to them also) and I noticed your vocal track also does have a ton of 150-250. (Side note, I actually like the 22' better in that regard.
A few mics I've tried- live (low stage volume) and/or in-home studio live'- PR35, 20, 22, RE20 &16 (to new to comment-) 4047 (yes, in-home only! ), D5900 (AKG's alt to 3900?), and OM5.

RE20 is King imho. -on the other hand note SM7 gap here so..

I'm not sure what you were asking. Were you asking about proximity effect or popping with the PR35? I used no eq on my 'shoot-out' clips, but you could easily take out the extra low end. I had the switch in the middle position. The far left position will take out more of the low end. But it's a little too much for my taste. I was also less than 6" from the mic. I didn't notice any problem with popping. How would you say the Heils compare to the RE20? I've always lusted after that one for some reason, but I'm not going to spend over $250 on a mic I can't try first. They often go for close to $300, second hand, on ebay.

 

[jaz49]

This is not the BEST way to treat a room by any means...but...I have used this in the past with good results...

get some of these...from Walmart though...way cheaper there....
http://www.keysan.com/ksu1712.htm


then get some hooks that will screw into your ceiling. Put the binder clips on the corners of some blankets and hang them on the hooks....

Ah yes, binder clips. I've never thought of those before. I used to use them at work and I may have a few floating around here somewhere. I'm going to try and dig some up...otherwise I'll pick them up at STaples. Thanks!

 

[dgatwood]

Actually, an aquaintence of mine on this board had the same problem with a pair of Oktava MC012's I picked up for him when my GC was blowing them out for $50 each.

A condenser mic is much more plausible because it has to get enough current to function....

It turned out to be due to a tolerance incompatibility between certain cables and the XLR connector on the mic. It is not that unusual, apparently, especially when using a European made mic and a USA made cable, or when the USA cable is being plugged into a Euro-made mixer. Apparently, not all XLR connectors are created quite equal. He switched to a B.L.U.E. quad cable and the problem went away.

That's pretty weird. The XLR connector spec is well defined. That said, Oktava played fast and loose with a lot of things. Sloppy connector design wouldn't surprise me. That should mean, however, that no mics would work with the mixer in question, which would bring us back to the "dead mixer" theory again.

Makes sense, the guy on the phone said the two mixers the D3800 did not work with were both Behringer mixers.

Which further lends credence to the "dead mixer" theory.

 

[mixsit]

I'm not sure what you were asking. Were you asking about proximity effect or popping with the PR35? I used no eq on my 'shoot-out' clips, but you could easily take out the extra low end. I had the switch in the middle position. The far left position will take out more of the low end. But it's a little too much for my taste. I was also less than 6" from the mic. I didn't notice any problem with popping. How would you say the Heils compare to the RE20? I've always lusted after that one for some reason, but I'm not going to spend over $250 on a mic I can't try first. They often go for close to $300, second hand, on ebay.

I was wondering what you thought about the tone on the 35', or if the low end I heard on the clip was part of why you didn't like it?

I'd say the 22' has a top end bump in a similar fashon as the RE20, up higher than a lot of 'live mics (and the 35) but where the RE20 really shines is staying natural sounding right up on the mic. Partly due to no prox. and partly because the cap is set back a little farther than others too I expect.

 

[jaz49]

I was wondering what you thought about the tone on the 35', or if the low end I heard on the clip was part of why you didn't like it?

I just tested it again against the e835. It's a bit clearer...more open on top than the Sennheiser...otherwise almost identical. They both have a lot of proximity if you get too close. I tried eq'ing out a bit at 200 and it sounds good. I'm glad you mentioned that, because that extra upper bass is not helping the mix any. Now there's nothing about the tone not to like! It sounds very natural to me. My only problem with it is sibilance, but I suspect that's partly do to the pre running close to max gain. I don't think for my intended use, I'd spring for the extra bucks for a RE20 just to avoid the proximity effect. It's not any more clear or detailed than the PR22? It *should* be for the price they're getting...$400 new vs. $150 for the Heil.