I need a good vocal mic for a mostly untreated room. I've heard of guys using dynamics in the same situation, but I tried a couple and am not totally satisfied with the result. I was thinking of a RE20 but it's outside of my budget. I'm told a SM7 needs a good pre with plenty of clean gain, so that one's probably out. Would a hand held stage condenser be a good mic for my situation. Any recommendations for a good dynamic mic for vocals...or a hand held condenser like the beta 87 or SM86? I have a Heil PR35 and a senn. e835 at present. I'm thinking of selling both, as well as my AT3035.
Vocal mic for mostly untreated room
- Thread starter jaz49
- Start date
Weasel9992
New member
Norris Shepherd
New member
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=SE+electronics
Something like this might help.
It's a bit pricey though... i'm thinking about making one (in a 'V' shape) from rigid fibreglass.
Something like this might help.
It's a bit pricey though... i'm thinking about making one (in a 'V' shape) from rigid fibreglass.
An untreated room is undesireable. You know you need to treat your room. Since treating mine, all of my microphones please me a little more. That being said, the good and bad characteristics of my mics were apparent in my untreated space. I understand why people recommend dynamics to peaople in your situation but to say a condenser is "unusable" in an untreated space isn't true in my experience. Even in my untreated room, the nasty reflections could be somewhat controlled by location in the room or temporary treatment. Even though they didn't sound as good as they could, they still sounded better than the limited frequency response of a dynamic(depending on the material). If you're doing rock, stick with dynamics. If you're doing softer stuff, by all means try one of the constantly recomended low end condensers (Mxl v67G, Mxl 960, Cad m179, etc.) If you have any way to audition them in your space before buying, please do. Try as many as you can and I'm sure you'll find something acceptable.
JuliánFernández
2&4
Why don´t just start with treating the room?
Weasel9992
New member
The problem is, there's really no such thing. The best you're going to get is a mic that minimizes the amount of room sound you're getting in the recording.
Frank
soundchaser59
Reluctant Commander
I suspect that was the intention of the question......
Look at the Audio Technica AE6100. Weasel is right, the condensor will only make it worse. I would guess a hypercardioid dynamic would be best for what you asked.
What do you want for your Heil? I really like the Heil mics, I would bet one of their models is a hypercard dynamic. PM me with a quote, I have been looking.....
Thanks all, for the feedback. Someone from the Gearslutz forum told me that using a 'stage'/hand-held condenser would cut out more of the room than a studio LDC...seems to make sense to me. Doing extensive room treatment is not an option right now. I'm doing some basic stuff like hanging quilts and singing facing an open clothes closet, but the AT3035 is still picking up some of the room.
quickmill: I agree a condenser would be preferable to a dynamic since I do a lot of 'softer' stuff as well as rock. I'm not a screamer...in fact the opposite...more like Leonard Cohen style for some of my stuff. I'm going to have to figure out some way to do some more temporary treatment. I'm in a rental apartment. I don't like the AT3035 a whole lot anyway, so I'm looking into other mics like the ones you mentioned as well as the ae5400 and ae3300.
quickmill: I agree a condenser would be preferable to a dynamic since I do a lot of 'softer' stuff as well as rock. I'm not a screamer...in fact the opposite...more like Leonard Cohen style for some of my stuff. I'm going to have to figure out some way to do some more temporary treatment. I'm in a rental apartment. I don't like the AT3035 a whole lot anyway, so I'm looking into other mics like the ones you mentioned as well as the ae5400 and ae3300.
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jcmastering
New member
The AT3035 has a cardioid polar response , so you may want to try positioning yourself and the mic so that the open clothes closet is behind you. Also bed mattresses can be used in a pinch to form a small booth in a room's corner.
I think you just don't like the 3035.
The condensers I disliked in my untreated space, I still disliked in a treated one. The ones I like in the treated space already worked for me in the untreated space.
I treated for mixing much more than tracking. I still sometimes track with condensers in untreated rooms because I don't like everything overly dead. Obviously all rooms are not created equal and everything is a trade off of some kind.
Don't let lack of room treatment stop you from recording your music (You can treat a little at a time as funds allow).
The condensers I disliked in my untreated space, I still disliked in a treated one. The ones I like in the treated space already worked for me in the untreated space.
I treated for mixing much more than tracking. I still sometimes track with condensers in untreated rooms because I don't like everything overly dead. Obviously all rooms are not created equal and everything is a trade off of some kind.
Don't let lack of room treatment stop you from recording your music (You can treat a little at a time as funds allow).
That's true, I didn't like the AT3035 any better, even after I managed to get some of the room out of the track. The PR35 sounds most like how I sound to myself. I've gotten some O.K tracks with that after I de-ess. I'd still prefer a condenser for the ballad and slow country style stuff. My song "Jolene"... on my MySpace page....was done with the PR35.
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
One suggestion I can make is a dynamic that responds a lot like a condenser- AKG D3800 tripower. It was designed to compete with Sennheiser MD421 and MD441. It never caught on because it is a little sensitive, and the rockers didn't like it. Now they are being blown out- Your basic $350 high-end dynamic, which I might be able to get new in the flight case for $50-$100. This is not because it is a bad mic, it's just not what people expected. It's the only hand held dynamic I own that I would actually put a pop filter in front of in the studio. It's a hypercardioid mic which I think would be perfect for your application.-Richie
Heh, funny I just did this exact thing a few days ago. I was attempting vocals using an LDC mic and the room effect was horrendous. I backed the mic stand up so that I was standing in my closet with clothes behind me, threw some pillows on the exposed parts of the hard floor, and put up a thick blanket. I can confirm that it made a huge improvement. Not perfect of course, but the result was at least usable for what I was doing.
darrin_h2000
Banned
In my experience from looking on that forum for product reviews...you get alot of guys reviewing that have never used the products...
Just alot of guys that like to see their words in type
The SM57 is a great idea...you save enough on the mic to go ahead and start treating your room.
Here...80"x200" of black corragated studio foam with flame resistance for $190...the place I got mine...Aurlex is such a ripoff.
The diffusers were constructed using 2'x2' plywood boards with 2"x2" cut between 1 and 3 inches glued on and spraypainted black.
http://www.amfoam.com/polyurethane.html
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When you do treat your room , I would avoid foam products and go with broadband trapping. There is lots of information on this and other boards and you should read all you can before deciding. Lots of good info on the GIK and RealTraps sites are a good starting point. Frank here is a very good resource.
Even DIY isn't dirt cheap but not bad in the grand scheme. I have a 10' x 18' room with 15 bass traps and several 2" panels at first reflection points. I made them myself from 703 or mineral wool, some wood frames and breathable fabric. I would guess I've got about $500 dollars or more in it. I made several at a time and spread it out over a year or so. The difference in detail and stereo imaging on your monitors is drastic.
The other thing with broadband trapping as opposed to foam is that you don't suck ALL of the life out of the room. I prefer this for tracking. It's still a little too dead but preferable to the "small room" reflections most times. I don't want to appear to be advocating you not treating your room. Do what you need to do for now but by all means TREAT. It will be the smartest money you ever spent on this money sucking hobby.
Even DIY isn't dirt cheap but not bad in the grand scheme. I have a 10' x 18' room with 15 bass traps and several 2" panels at first reflection points. I made them myself from 703 or mineral wool, some wood frames and breathable fabric. I would guess I've got about $500 dollars or more in it. I made several at a time and spread it out over a year or so. The difference in detail and stereo imaging on your monitors is drastic.
The other thing with broadband trapping as opposed to foam is that you don't suck ALL of the life out of the room. I prefer this for tracking. It's still a little too dead but preferable to the "small room" reflections most times. I don't want to appear to be advocating you not treating your room. Do what you need to do for now but by all means TREAT. It will be the smartest money you ever spent on this money sucking hobby.
darrin_h2000
Banned
The wood diffusers keep the room live...but keep out any slapback echo...the room itself is pretty live when you use them.
I used a bass trap design that is fairly affordable using pipe flocking material...it works...there are plenty of DIY designs that wont break you.
I used a bass trap design that is fairly affordable using pipe flocking material...it works...there are plenty of DIY designs that wont break you.
Weasel9992
New member
Diffusion can definitely be a good thing, but it has to be placed thoughtfully, especially in a small room. The back wall is almost *never* the right place in a pre-existing, small room.
Frank
Frank
stupidfatnugly
New member
I wouldn't rule out the sm7
I have a similar situation and the sm7 was the solution to my problem
on my mbox2 I have to turn it up quite a bit but I do not need a seperate preamp
I have a similar situation and the sm7 was the solution to my problem
on my mbox2 I have to turn it up quite a bit but I do not need a seperate preamp