thajeremy
registered abuser
Exactly....
I have 3 73's
and 2 84's and passed
on the
81's completely.
I use plugs to take care
of EQ work.
So it seems that the
73's and 84's
have far less issues
than
the 81
's
is that correct???
- Status
Exactly....
I have 3 73's
and 2 84's and passed
on the
81's completely.
I use plugs to take care
of EQ work.
So it seems that the
73's and 84's
have far less issues
than
the 81
's
is that correct???
jasonbmerrill
the end of unreality
are there differences between the preamps on the 73 and 84 vs. the 81?
R
redddog
New member
Nope. Same pre. The 81 just has more issues.
They are ALL teaming with multiple issues but the 81 has the most.
jasonbmerrill
the end of unreality
as long as the pre with the eq off works fine, im fine with the 81.
btw not to be a nazi but in this context its "teeming"
antichef
pornk rock
yeah, but we're all "teaming" up to fix them!but in this context its "teeming"
jasonbmerrill
the end of unreality
WhiteStrat
Don't stare at the eye.
yeah, but we're all "teaming" up to fix them!
I just threw up a little bit in the back of my mouth.
D
drBill
New member
I think it's most wise to speak for oneself
I stand corrected!! It does seem that there are a few that WOULD like to go back!
ausrock
Well-known member
I stand corrected!! It does seem that there are a few that WOULD like to go back!
Why respond to just one part of a post, ignoring the intelligent "meaty parts"...............or do you fit into the blind, "dedicated to a cause" group
Seeing that there's a fair chance that I'm one person Bill's refering to, I'll be presumptive and respond...........Bill, again, you put your twist to things. It's never been a secret that virtually any "manufacturer" would find the GB's difficult to deal with, even more so if the products offered were virtually direct clones or variations of said "manufacturers" product range BUT in this instance, that was not the case. Disregarding (for a minute) Alan Hyatt's manner of presentation, all he initially did was post info he had on the pres, info he had from direct, first hand experience with 797. He also supplied some schematics and the observation that with traffo changes, etc., people should have a good pre for their money. The fact that this information conflicted directly with some things said by Chance early in the GB, (things I might add, that even when given opportunities, Chance has never attempted to correct), is where the problems developed, especially when a few people resorted to personal insults and abuse. It really is that simple..............if people had posted their opinions and/or questions to Alan in a polite, even if not necessarily "friendly" manner, it's probable that we wouldn't be having this discussion now.
As I've said to you before, we are all entitled to our opinions............this is just mine.
P
P. Glaser
New member
Holy cow! I don't check in for a few days and all hell breaks loose. LOL Hey, good investigative work, dgatwood. Thanks. I'm confident that this will all be worked out someday. Carry on...
D
drBill
New member
Why respond to just one part of a post, ignoring the intelligent "meaty parts"...............or do you fit into the blind, "dedicated to a cause" group
Sorry that my answers don't meet your criteria. I'll try harder next time instead of jumping back into my sessions so quickly.....,
I think it's most wise to speak for oneself
I answered this one. OK by you? I mentioned that I stood corrected.
I think this one was addressed to you, so I passed on it. My name wasn't mentioned and it sounded exactly like you so....
Well, like it was said, this wasn't me, is not my opinion, I never even heard this before today and I've been around, so.....I felt no need to comment.
I hope each of us on this board come away from this experience with a more accepting attitude towards others and an open mind.
Agreed.
Good enough for you now ausrock? How about you get off my back and not assume that I'm talking to you if I don't address you specifically? Better yet let's agree to do this:
Home Recording > User Control Panel > Edit Ignore List > insert each others names!!!
ausrock
Well-known member
Better yet let's agree to do this:
Home Recording > User Control Panel > Edit Ignore List > insert each others names!!!
No mate, the only person to ever go on my ignore list made the rest of us look like saints, anyways, I still enjoy your posts away from GB issues, both here and at G/slutz
D
drBill
New member
No mate, the only person to ever go on my ignore list made the rest of us look like saints, anyways, I still enjoy your posts away from GB issues, both here and at G/slutz
Fair enough. I guess we'll just have to seek counseling then...
nuemes
Be Here Now
Rightly so, Bill, my post was not directed at you. I quoted you and worked off that - if anyone took that out of context please note I'm not fingering Bill at all.
My beef is with the guys that were trying to seclude me and others within the group buy because we wanted answers to our questions. And yeah, I'll be rebellious as f*** about it until I feel like I know what's what.
I don't know about the rest of you but after 8 years of the Bush administration I've lost my tolerance for zealots who shoot first and ask questions later.
01.20.09
vicenzajay
Member
+1000 (insert however many more zeros you like here)
Exactly...It's actually getting a bit distracting to continually have individuals try to make those of us who are inquisitive as to what the he!! happened with the design, fabrication, assembly and then "non-testing" of these units feel as if we don't have valid concerns.
Here's the deal - most of us (or at least me, I'll speak for myself) aren't on a witch hunt here at all. I'm still (and will remain) very grateful to Chance (and Randy) for all their incredible work putting this whole thing together. The sheer amount of logistical effort has been staggering, and in the end, we've received some fairly decent equipment...especially for the money.
But here's the rub: even though several members of this board continue to chant the "mantra" - "we knew what we were getting into" - the fact is that the way these units were presented by (supposedly) those involved in both design/conception/listening to these units was unequivocably positive and downright defensive at times with regard to the quality of sound and the basic all around value of the product (not to mention how they came to be). To put it mildly, that has not been the way the delivery of these units has "developed" at all. It is massively obvious that not even the smallest modicum of "responsibility" was taken or shouldered by the manufacturer of these pres - the run was, at best, perhaps the most haphazard and shoddy run in the history of "mass" production audio equipment. For those of us who specifically chose certain models of the ACMP for EQ capability, it is only natural that we are asking questions both about what happened and what the way "ahead" will be. There was never a statement from Chance or direct from the manufacturer telling us, "The group buy preamps are a crap-shoot, buy at your own risk - and if they don't work, please don't complain." Quite the opposite, actually - a manual was posted along with a reiteration of the company's "warranty" for the product (despite the fact that postage alone makes the warranty a non-entity). The only feedback during ordering and the wait for production was, "You're going to love these pres!"
Several pages back, there was a lively discussion concerning the hope that this GB would prompt a change (or at least a shift in attitude) concerning the retail "model" for audio equipment given the lessons learned during this GB. Here's the thing - why would anyone WANT to "learn" these lessons if this type of manufacturing run/end product is the result? I mentioned in a post subsequent to that discussion that perhaps the microphone products seem to have a better rate of design/manufacturing success (minus the sagging ribbons) given the last few group buys...that is still a pertinent consideration, in my opinion. In many ways, without some verifiable QA/QC and end-testing of the product, this "model" for product sale/distribution has been proven to be invalid (vice providing an "example" for other retailers). The only way (again IMO) to correctly do beta-product testing of products in this was (i.e. a "Group Buy") is to have, in big print above each new product, something to the effect of:
"Buy at your own risk - we have no idea whether this product will even turn on once it arrives. It may be missing parts, incorrectly assembled, possess disconnected cables, and it will NOT have been tested in any way prior to shipping."
If that statement had been made (not by group buy members AFTER shipping) by the manufacturers, I guarantee that there probably would not have been enough of each pre ordered to even warrant a run of the products on the assembly line.
Let me reiterate - as posted by several very succinctly over the past month - I believe Chance was led down the yellow brick road by this particular Chinese manufacturer. I'm sure he's incredibly frustrated at the results - I'm also sure he's still working his head off trying to complete shipping and take care of all the logistical details right now. Therefore he literally has no time/energy to address this issue. I'm perfectly willing (despite my earlier reaction to immediately unload my 81's) to wait and see how this develops with the hope of having workable ACMP-81 units at the end of the day. There are some amazingly sharp people on this board (Dgatwood and others) who are coming up with some brilliant solutions to issues, so I certainly feel that the corporate effort will make this a win-win for all.
That being said - the very need for this type of effort would seem to invalidate any new "retail/purchasing model" for other retailers/manufacturers as discussed earlier in the thread.
Jay
Exactly...It's actually getting a bit distracting to continually have individuals try to make those of us who are inquisitive as to what the he!! happened with the design, fabrication, assembly and then "non-testing" of these units feel as if we don't have valid concerns.
Here's the deal - most of us (or at least me, I'll speak for myself) aren't on a witch hunt here at all. I'm still (and will remain) very grateful to Chance (and Randy) for all their incredible work putting this whole thing together. The sheer amount of logistical effort has been staggering, and in the end, we've received some fairly decent equipment...especially for the money.
But here's the rub: even though several members of this board continue to chant the "mantra" - "we knew what we were getting into" - the fact is that the way these units were presented by (supposedly) those involved in both design/conception/listening to these units was unequivocably positive and downright defensive at times with regard to the quality of sound and the basic all around value of the product (not to mention how they came to be). To put it mildly, that has not been the way the delivery of these units has "developed" at all. It is massively obvious that not even the smallest modicum of "responsibility" was taken or shouldered by the manufacturer of these pres - the run was, at best, perhaps the most haphazard and shoddy run in the history of "mass" production audio equipment. For those of us who specifically chose certain models of the ACMP for EQ capability, it is only natural that we are asking questions both about what happened and what the way "ahead" will be. There was never a statement from Chance or direct from the manufacturer telling us, "The group buy preamps are a crap-shoot, buy at your own risk - and if they don't work, please don't complain." Quite the opposite, actually - a manual was posted along with a reiteration of the company's "warranty" for the product (despite the fact that postage alone makes the warranty a non-entity). The only feedback during ordering and the wait for production was, "You're going to love these pres!"
Several pages back, there was a lively discussion concerning the hope that this GB would prompt a change (or at least a shift in attitude) concerning the retail "model" for audio equipment given the lessons learned during this GB. Here's the thing - why would anyone WANT to "learn" these lessons if this type of manufacturing run/end product is the result? I mentioned in a post subsequent to that discussion that perhaps the microphone products seem to have a better rate of design/manufacturing success (minus the sagging ribbons) given the last few group buys...that is still a pertinent consideration, in my opinion. In many ways, without some verifiable QA/QC and end-testing of the product, this "model" for product sale/distribution has been proven to be invalid (vice providing an "example" for other retailers). The only way (again IMO) to correctly do beta-product testing of products in this was (i.e. a "Group Buy") is to have, in big print above each new product, something to the effect of:
"Buy at your own risk - we have no idea whether this product will even turn on once it arrives. It may be missing parts, incorrectly assembled, possess disconnected cables, and it will NOT have been tested in any way prior to shipping."
If that statement had been made (not by group buy members AFTER shipping) by the manufacturers, I guarantee that there probably would not have been enough of each pre ordered to even warrant a run of the products on the assembly line.
Let me reiterate - as posted by several very succinctly over the past month - I believe Chance was led down the yellow brick road by this particular Chinese manufacturer. I'm sure he's incredibly frustrated at the results - I'm also sure he's still working his head off trying to complete shipping and take care of all the logistical details right now. Therefore he literally has no time/energy to address this issue. I'm perfectly willing (despite my earlier reaction to immediately unload my 81's) to wait and see how this develops with the hope of having workable ACMP-81 units at the end of the day. There are some amazingly sharp people on this board (Dgatwood and others) who are coming up with some brilliant solutions to issues, so I certainly feel that the corporate effort will make this a win-win for all.
That being said - the very need for this type of effort would seem to invalidate any new "retail/purchasing model" for other retailers/manufacturers as discussed earlier in the thread.
Jay
antichef
pornk rock
a new "non-retail" arrangement that is -- more details to flesh out of course, like a reputation system for the manufactures, etc - anyway - I've learned my lesson about speculating alongside situations like this. Party on!
mshilarious
Banned
That was pretty much my reaction.
True. However, to my ears (based upon comparisons posted), the only mics worth it from a price & performance basis are the tubes, and again there is some concern with those power supplies. I mean, not anywhere near as bad as the preamps, but I've seen a few reports of DOA tubes, mostly from people without the technical ability to diagnose the problem (some of this on GS). The suggestions to them have centered around the tube itself, but no one has suggested basics like measuring supply voltages at each pin, or cracking open the PSU to see what's what. Thus, given the manufacturer's seeming inability to properly engineer a power supply, I would not trust anything from them that plugged directly into a wall. That said, there are plenty of those around from previous group buys, and none seem to have caught on fire . . .
The ribbons sound OK, but there is no shortage of cheap ribbons if you shop around. $70 seems a frequently available deal; these are what, $35 or $40 with an eight month wait? That's a toss-up.
The FET condensers to me all sound way too bright. Obviously I am biased against bright cardioid microphones, but I think that's a color that has been way overdone. Platform for modding, OK, but if you want to get crazy, there's that MCA mic, or the 990 or 603 (a bit pricy I guess), or even the Behri C1, which to me is a cheap case for sticking in whatever guts you like--the capsule is unremarkable, but not particularly bright.
There should probably be a basic disclaimer: "if you don't own a multimeter, don't join the group buy." Everybody should have a multimeter anyway, that would give them some encouragement.
R
redddog
New member
"Buy at your own risk - we have no idea whether this product will even turn on once it arrives. It may be missing parts, incorrectly assembled, possess disconnected cables, and it will NOT have been tested in any way prior to shipping."
Well said V.
I can promise you that, without a doubt, there would be NO way that I would have bought one, let alone 8, of these pres if that disclaimer were made. Not a single one. You are right about the initial reaction to the prototypes. It was never stated that "if they manage not to completely throw this crap together like disinterested kindergardeners trying to finish up so they can get out to the playground, these will be great." They said that we will "love these pres."
Well I don't. Not necessarily because they're not usable on some sources, but because they represent a f*** job. I ordered 73s and 84s mainly because I don't have the chops to fully utilize the surgical eq that the 81 has. I'm pissed that the eq doesn't work on my models but if I bought 81s, it would have been strictly for the eq. To say that the pre can sound good on loud sources but the eq doesn't work? On principle, that sucks. And it makes that product one of the biggest jokes in the Audio industry. Here's a car. It'll start up but it doesn't drive. You can push it though.
It has nothing to do with Chance et al. I think he was victimized by the same naive hopes that we were. This is a classic "if it's too good to be true, than it is." If you could pick up Neve pres for a 20th of the cost of the real deal just by pooling your money, this would have been done LONG ago. But this is just another in a long line of Barbies made outta lead that comes out of China.
Once again, they have taken advantage of American's ridiculous notion that you CAN get something for free. We fall for it time and time again. And they can hide behind a "lost in translation" line of bullshit as we fall over ourselves hoping the next time it will be better.
We will get these pres right, I'm sure. The talent that is working on these is top notch. And they're doing it for apparently nothing. The Chinese slapped this shite together with abandon and american talent will straighten it out. They get paid, we don't. Makes me sick.
One thing that has been said deserves repeating for me:
This is without a doubt, the worst, most haphazzard and shoddy run of mass produced, audio equipment in history. I'd loveto know what the problem was with the units that were held back. It looks more like that was another line of BS used to insinuate that there was some presence of QC greater than "turn it on and make sure it doesn't smoke."
Well said V.
I can promise you that, without a doubt, there would be NO way that I would have bought one, let alone 8, of these pres if that disclaimer were made. Not a single one. You are right about the initial reaction to the prototypes. It was never stated that "if they manage not to completely throw this crap together like disinterested kindergardeners trying to finish up so they can get out to the playground, these will be great." They said that we will "love these pres."
Well I don't. Not necessarily because they're not usable on some sources, but because they represent a f*** job. I ordered 73s and 84s mainly because I don't have the chops to fully utilize the surgical eq that the 81 has. I'm pissed that the eq doesn't work on my models but if I bought 81s, it would have been strictly for the eq. To say that the pre can sound good on loud sources but the eq doesn't work? On principle, that sucks. And it makes that product one of the biggest jokes in the Audio industry. Here's a car. It'll start up but it doesn't drive. You can push it though.
It has nothing to do with Chance et al. I think he was victimized by the same naive hopes that we were. This is a classic "if it's too good to be true, than it is." If you could pick up Neve pres for a 20th of the cost of the real deal just by pooling your money, this would have been done LONG ago. But this is just another in a long line of Barbies made outta lead that comes out of China.
Once again, they have taken advantage of American's ridiculous notion that you CAN get something for free. We fall for it time and time again. And they can hide behind a "lost in translation" line of bullshit as we fall over ourselves hoping the next time it will be better.
We will get these pres right, I'm sure. The talent that is working on these is top notch. And they're doing it for apparently nothing. The Chinese slapped this shite together with abandon and american talent will straighten it out. They get paid, we don't. Makes me sick.
One thing that has been said deserves repeating for me:
This is without a doubt, the worst, most haphazzard and shoddy run of mass produced, audio equipment in history. I'd loveto know what the problem was with the units that were held back. It looks more like that was another line of BS used to insinuate that there was some presence of QC greater than "turn it on and make sure it doesn't smoke."
jasonbmerrill
the end of unreality
why dont you tell us how you REALLY feel?
R
redddog
New member
I just want to make sure that you understand that my anger is directed towards the manufacturer alone.
I really feel like they screwed us over.
I really feel like they screwed us over.
- Status