Using a digital mixer in an all analog studio

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rickson Gracie
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Rickson Gracie

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As of now Im using a Tascam m308 which is cool BUT I was thinking about using one of those new fangled automated mixers with motorized faders and settings that you can save.

I always use external pres (BLUE Robbie and an UA-610 solo) and i plan on setting up a patchbay to my TSR8 where I can just run the mic pres directly into the TSR8 and then mix down with the mixer into my TASCAM 22-2. I plan on only using analog outboard effects (I have two RNCs, an ART VLA and a Demeter RV1 Reverb)

How would this workout? is it feasable? Will I be losing any analog goodness with this setup??

Any suggestions on mixers? THANKS
 
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Sure it'll work out. Nice thing is most digital mixers have built-in effects and flexible routing so you can tailor it for your environment, not to mention DAW tools and a smaller footprint, but don't forget that by using a digital mixer in an analog studio, you are no longer running an analog studio...your signal chain will be hybrid and your audio will take an A/D/A trip anytime you bring it through your mixer.

I use a Yamaha 01X, but it is no longer the hub of my studio. It is now used as a digital effects engine, DAW controller and the hub of the digital side of the studio. The main hub is, at present, my M-520 so that audio brought to analog recorder/reproducers hasn't entered the digital realm. I'm trying to save that for later stages either for multitrack mastering to digital from an ATR, transferring analog 2-track masters or mastering to direct to digital.

Slice it any way you like. I have lots of thoughts on the matter and some experience to go with it...trail and error stuff...but I promise never to say "this is the right way to do it" or "this is what you need to do". Through discussion (like you are doing here) you'll get an idea what is right for you.
 
Thanks Sweetbeats. I enjoy reading your posts.

I would really love automation and the fact that you could be able to 'save' projects that you would be able to get on a good digital mixer but I definitely would not my signal chain to ever enter the digital world.

I wonder if there are older analog mixers that would have the automation features but still have a 100% analog signal chain. I remember seeing the movie 'Rock Star' set in the 80s where the console faders moved by themseves so I would think that there would be older models out there but maybe (probably) theyre crazy expensive.
 
Rickson Gracie said:
Thanks Sweetbeats. I enjoy reading your posts.

I would really love automation and the fact that you could be able to 'save' projects that you would be able to get on a good digital mixer but I definitely would not my signal chain to ever enter the digital world.

I wonder if there are older analog mixers that would have the automation features but still have a 100% analog signal chain. I remember seeing the movie 'Rock Star' set in the 80s where the console faders moved by themseves so I would think that there would be older models out there but maybe (probably) theyre crazy expensive.
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neve had 'flying faders'. most others had similar; SSL, amek, harrison, etc. MEGA $!!
but i believe they were mostly analog consoles.
 
You can get some of those old consoles with automation for around $10,000 f you look hard enough.

There was also VCA automation that was run with midi and placed in the channel inserts. It came and went right about the time that everyone was switching to DAW's.
 
Yup-yup...so the bottom line is that unless you have a big budget (relative to the typical home/cottage-industry recordist), if you want to keep it analog your faders are going to need your fingers to move 'em. :D

NOW...that being said there are elements like Farview mentioned that can be automated using a MIDI sequencer on some mixers...Tascam's 2500 and 2600 series mixers I believe had some of that as did the 3500 and 3700 series. What could be automated I don't know. I have a 2500 series manual but I haven't read it in depth. It would be limited to mute and solo settings, maybe some routing features, that sort of thing could be turned on and off and saved as scenes using the sequencer and software that came with the mixer...I think the 3700 mixers were the most advanced in that area.

Don't take what I'm saying here as totally accurate truth...haven't had my hands on those mixers or any mixer with those features...jump in and correct or augment what I'm saying, folks!
 
sweetbeats said:
Yup-yup...so the bottom line is that unless you have a big budget (relative to the typical home/cottage-industry recordist), if you want to keep it analog your faders are going to need your fingers to move 'em. :D

NOW...that being said there are elements like Farview mentioned that can be automated using a MIDI sequencer on some mixers...Tascam's 2500 and 2600 series mixers I believe had some of that as did the 3500 and 3700 series. What could be automated I don't know. I have a 2500 series manual but I haven't read it in depth. It would be limited to mute and solo settings, maybe some routing features, that sort of thing could be turned on and off and saved as scenes using the sequencer and software that came with the mixer...I think the 3700 mixers were the most advanced in that area.

Don't take what I'm saying here as totally accurate truth...haven't had my hands on those mixers or any mixer with those features...jump in and correct or augment what I'm saying, folks!
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I'm guessing the 2500 series are all fairly similar. The M-2516 just has the capability of muting/soloing channels/effects send/return via MIDI. They can be programmed in any number of "scenes" and can be utilized either by the board's MIDI control area, or by the optional footswitch. The downside of the footswitch is that it only goes up/down, no provision for specific recalls. I wish it had the automated faders via MIDI, that would be sweet!:D
 
Farview said:
You can get some of those old consoles with automation for around $10,000 f you look hard enough.

There was also VCA automation that was run with midi and placed in the channel inserts. It came and went right about the time that everyone was switching to DAW's.
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Here's what I know about VCA automation. We had a circa early 90's Otari 54P mixing console that had VCA automation on all of the mix faders. It was, and still is a monstrous, FANTASTIC mixer, but we always kept the VCA bypassed and never used it. and here's why:

1. The faders don't move. (at least I know they weren't supposed to on this Otari.) You can program the movement of the fader by mixing-by-hand, and it will remember your movements, and play it back appropriately with your fader changes, but the fader itself does not move, making it hard to visualize your mix at any point in time to make changes
2. The interface is.......primitive at best. Making changes to your mix usually requires the use of computer software circa early 90's which may be difficult to get used to using.
3. I don't know whether it was just the age of our console or if it is expected behavior, but the VCA automation caused about a 45 degree "narrowing" of the stereo image. Even without actually using the automation -- if the VCA automation circuit was engaged, and un-bypassed on the master module, the master stereo image of your mix went from 180 degrees, to sounding like 90 degrees. It was rather bizarre, and hard to explain by typing. You would have to hear it to understand what it sounds like.

I once paid a visit to a studio in Austin, TX called Top Hat Recording. They had a VERY nice Trident 80B that was outfitted with an Uptown flying fader system (all analog) that had a computer-interface used to edit/control the faders. Nice, because the faders moved, and the signal stayed in the analog realm. Not-so-nice is that this company (Uptown Faders) is no longer in business as far as I know, and the faders, even on the used market, are $$EXPENSIVE$$
 
The automation system that I was thinking about was a box that was separate from the console. People were using it with Mackie's and Ghost's back in the late 90's. It connected to the inserts of the console (the system had other inserts for you to use). But yes, the faders don't move and the interface sucked.
 
Farview said:
The automation system that I was thinking about was a box that was separate from the console. People were using it with Mackie's and Ghost's back in the late 90's. It connected to the inserts of the console (the system had other inserts for you to use). But yes, the faders don't move and the interface sucked.
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Interesting -- I haven't seen one of those.

I can see how something like that would be useful if you are wanting a professional-grade fade-out on your master stereo buss while mixing down, at the end of a song.

But I cannot imagine mixing with an outboard unit -- unless that unit actually had its own faders to control and program the automation -- which almost defeats the purpose of having a mixer anyhow...
 
Off-topic, but thought I'd share --

I recall some of the nicer Studer tape machines having VCA automation built-in for automatically calibrating the machine to change what type of tape you were using. For example, let's say you want to switch from a +9 dB tape to a +6 dB tape -- just press a couple of buttons -- DONE! No calibration tape needed, and no spending 30 minutes minimum moving dozens of tweakers on each of the channel modules. The tweakers are still there, but they serve the purpose of calibrating your VCA settings. Switching tape-type and bias settings happens by pressing a couple of buttons, and you're done thanks to VCA.
 
Muckelroy said:
Interesting -- I haven't seen one of those.

I can see how something like that would be useful if you are wanting a professional-grade fade-out on your master stereo buss while mixing down, at the end of a song.

But I cannot imagine mixing with an outboard unit -- unless that unit actually had its own faders to control and program the automation -- which almost defeats the purpose of having a mixer anyhow...
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At least for the Soundcraft Ghost, you could hook it up the the Ghosts faders and use them to interface with the computer. Then, you would have to put all the faders at unity for the automated mixdown.

Now, it would be completely useless because almost everyone has a DAW with automation. You would just automate everything in the DAW and run stems out the the console for analog summing.
 
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