R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
1.5 mil tape will not harm the machine. It simply won't meet published specs which were measured using 1 mil. BTW - what is the exact context of the "1.5 mil tape not recommended" statement?
Herm
Well-known member
Tascam says.
Use of the recommended tapes in the chart below will ensure optimum performance from your 22-2. the use of tapes other than those that we recommend for the 22-2 will produce results that may lie outside the limits of our published specifications. The use of 1 1/2 mil tape is not recommended. If you have a special reason or need to use a tape other than one of those recommended, we suggest you ask your dealer to readjust the bias and eq.
It is a good professional practice to standardize on one particular tape.
Tapes listed are]
Ampex 357 407
Maxell ud, ud-xl
Scotch 227, 207
Sony DUAD
TDK ADUA(L series)
Use of the recommended tapes in the chart below will ensure optimum performance from your 22-2. the use of tapes other than those that we recommend for the 22-2 will produce results that may lie outside the limits of our published specifications. The use of 1 1/2 mil tape is not recommended. If you have a special reason or need to use a tape other than one of those recommended, we suggest you ask your dealer to readjust the bias and eq.
It is a good professional practice to standardize on one particular tape.
Tapes listed are]
Ampex 357 407
Maxell ud, ud-xl
Scotch 227, 207
Sony DUAD
TDK ADUA(L series)
R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
As I have been saying for some time now, that's "legal speak" to cover themselves should someone complain about the unit not meeting published spec with 1.5 mil tape. Nowhere does it say that anything harmful will/can/might occur if 1.5 mil stock was used, either regularly or occasionally.
Blue Jinn
Rider of the ARPocalypse
On the tape list in the A-3300SX owners manual (listing what bias/eq setting to use for various brands of tape) column heading says "1 mil base tapes -- recommended for 2 track and 4 track decks" then listing various tape brands. And the other column heading "1 1/2 mil base tapes -- recommended for 2 track decks only"
How much out of specs are we talking about? the published spec +/- 3dB is 40Hz - 24kHz, assuming that it rolls off steeper as the overall freq response is stated at 30-28 at 7.5 ips. This is as good or better than 48kHz digital, with out the brick walls at either end. I don't know the specs on teh 22-4, but assume they are similar to the 3300SX-2trk at 15 ips which has slightly better low freq response. Also, I'm assuming out of spec means I start to roll off sooner on the high end? Where does that roll off occur? I will likely be using dbx or Dolby both of which only claim a freq response up to 20kHz.
If I'm only slightly losing the extreme high end (which arguably contributes something so that I am one of those nuts that prefer analog to digital) am I going to notice?
Also, at one point I am certain I had the 3300 calibrated for Ampex 456 by a shop here in town.
And for part time use is wear something I should be concerned about?
How much out of specs are we talking about? the published spec +/- 3dB is 40Hz - 24kHz, assuming that it rolls off steeper as the overall freq response is stated at 30-28 at 7.5 ips. This is as good or better than 48kHz digital, with out the brick walls at either end. I don't know the specs on teh 22-4, but assume they are similar to the 3300SX-2trk at 15 ips which has slightly better low freq response. Also, I'm assuming out of spec means I start to roll off sooner on the high end? Where does that roll off occur? I will likely be using dbx or Dolby both of which only claim a freq response up to 20kHz.
If I'm only slightly losing the extreme high end (which arguably contributes something so that I am one of those nuts that prefer analog to digital) am I going to notice?
Also, at one point I am certain I had the 3300 calibrated for Ampex 456 by a shop here in town.
And for part time use is wear something I should be concerned about?
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R
RRuskin
Rick Ruskin
Assuming that a given deck can still meet spec, I doubt you would hear any significant difference. You would be able it measure it with the proper equipment, though.
Wear has been debated before. I don't believe that 1.5 mil tape will hasten it but others here do. I was informed by more than 1 of the Teac/Tascam designers/techs that heads and guides weren't going to wear any faster. Any units with smaller motors were limited to 7" reel capacity. Whether the reels were dealing with 1 or 1.5 mil stock was not a cause for concern. The lawyers would have specifically mentioned that in the boilerplate language if it was.
FYI - Teac/Tascam calibration trimmers are notoriously twitchy and will drift, especially if the machines are subject to being moved around. This doesn't mean settings go totally south, but it does mean they probably won't be "spot on" after a period of time.
Z
zhou
Member
just got 4 NOS AMPEX 407 1'' 3600 for $50,can use on my tascam ATR 60/16?
I'm new very new on TAPE...and i like the sound from the daptone recored...but our band is a rock band and we do like Black Sabbath（the song and their sound)....
so it's easy to get the tape compression on 250 nWb tape like 406 407 than 355 nWb tape?
if i want that old sound,what tech would be use?
yes i don't speak english,so is bad...sorry
I'm new very new on TAPE...and i like the sound from the daptone recored...but our band is a rock band and we do like Black Sabbath（the song and their sound)....
so it's easy to get the tape compression on 250 nWb tape like 406 407 than 355 nWb tape?
if i want that old sound,what tech would be use?
yes i don't speak english,so is bad...sorry
GCalo
Member
So then I can assume that AMPEX 407 1.0 mil should be trashed?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Yes you can use 1mil tape on that machine but BEWARE that if what is loaded on the reels is actually Ampex era 407 there is a high chance it has sticky shed!!
B
Beck
Guest
If its the auction I think it is you got them for a very good price and they are a good year, made by Quantegy in Opelika during the last year they were still Branded Ampex (1998). I’ve watched that seller listing those numerous times and he sold a few at ridiculously low prices, but often no takers. As much as tape costs even $50.00 each would be a steal for new 1-inch 407. You got the lot for $50.00. Nice! Looks like three are new and the other used. Still a great deal for the three.
407 is a great tape for that machine or any other. Yes, it will saturate at lower flux level, but also has different qualities than 456 that are nice. Tape is a big part of getting a vintage vibe, but not the whole picture. Mostly tape is a great recording medium for anything. The earliest days of Black Sabbath 456 hadn’t even been invented yet and it took a bit for it to become a standard in the 70’s and later. Some of the best stuff by bands like Sabbath and Deep Purple were done on Ampex 406/407 or Scotch 206/207.
There’s a lot to recreating a sound. Ambiance for the most part. That is, what the space the musicians are performing in sounds like accoustically, where the drums are in the mix, where everything is in the mix, how things are miked, effects used and of course how tape is used. It takes a lot of careful listening to figure out how everything was done on a given album. But you have a good start with that tape.
I’m wondering lately why I’m seeing so much good tape going on eBay for peanuts or watching the auction run the duration with no takers. You lucked out big time with a great buy! Despite our best efforts over the years to educate people they seem more confused than ever of what is good and not good tape. I officically give up! LOL I even thought about buying those, though I don't have a 1-inch machine. I thought I might hold onto them until people stuffed their brains back in their heads and then sometime in the future I would sell them at a profit to a smarter clientele.
I use a lot of 406/407 and Scotch 206/207.
407 is a great tape for that machine or any other. Yes, it will saturate at lower flux level, but also has different qualities than 456 that are nice. Tape is a big part of getting a vintage vibe, but not the whole picture. Mostly tape is a great recording medium for anything. The earliest days of Black Sabbath 456 hadn’t even been invented yet and it took a bit for it to become a standard in the 70’s and later. Some of the best stuff by bands like Sabbath and Deep Purple were done on Ampex 406/407 or Scotch 206/207.
There’s a lot to recreating a sound. Ambiance for the most part. That is, what the space the musicians are performing in sounds like accoustically, where the drums are in the mix, where everything is in the mix, how things are miked, effects used and of course how tape is used. It takes a lot of careful listening to figure out how everything was done on a given album. But you have a good start with that tape.
I’m wondering lately why I’m seeing so much good tape going on eBay for peanuts or watching the auction run the duration with no takers. You lucked out big time with a great buy! Despite our best efforts over the years to educate people they seem more confused than ever of what is good and not good tape. I officically give up! LOL I even thought about buying those, though I don't have a 1-inch machine. I thought I might hold onto them until people stuffed their brains back in their heads and then sometime in the future I would sell them at a profit to a smarter clientele.
I use a lot of 406/407 and Scotch 206/207.
jpmorris
Tape Wolf
Look for the serial number. On Ampex it's something like 95123, where '95' is the year (1995) and '123' is the day of year it was made. With Quantegy, they switched to 7 digits, so it would be, say, 2001123 and the first four digits are the year. Very late Ampex stock could be either way around.
Z
zhou
Member
beck,
i read what you say about 407 then i buy those tape on ebay! so it's work,don't give upyou know the world will see what you say...
yes is 3 NOS and 1 used.form 1998.i think i'll try more like 911(new),yes 206,207....and listen...like you say,it's good start.thanks.
high out +9 still can give the tape compression.right?push it hard
i'll write some thing after use 407.
thanks again
i read what you say about 407 then i buy those tape on ebay! so it's work,don't give up
you know the world will see what you say...yes is 3 NOS and 1 used.form 1998.i think i'll try more like 911(new),yes 206,207....and listen...like you say,it's good start.thanks.
high out +9 still can give the tape compression.right?push it hard
i'll write some thing after use 407.
thanks again