acoustic singer songwriter setup, compression options

[nalced777]

Hi, I've recently started playing live sets with just me and my acoustic guitar, so far I've done two open mics and I've gotta say I'm not really happy with how they went sound wise.

A lot of my vocals are quite quiet and whispery, (though they get louder at certain points) and when I record at home (basic setup, just use cubase) I use compression to boost the vox. I figure I need a live compression as well, and just to confirm I experimented with running my vocals through guitar rig 3, where you can set up your own virtual rack, and it's really opened my eyes to how much of a difference compression could make in a live setting. Even though the rack setting was 'stomp compressor' and I guess is tailored to guitar, I was much happier with how it boosted the vox.

So basically I am looking for advice as to what road to go down in terms of integrating a compressor into my live acoustic setup. With open mics would it be practical? and also what compressor do you think would do this very specific job best? It would also be handy for home recording as I could just keep the same setup and click record rather than having to always process post recording.

(I've also been experimenting with the guitar as well and I'm trying to figure out whether it would be a good idea to put that through a rack as well. I alternate between light finger picking and strumming and the difference bugs me, I tried a compressor, it kinda does the job but I'm wary of processing the guitar too much (its a good guitar with a fishman preamp built in), maybe a limiter is a better option, might have to mess around some more.)

Sorry to ramble, but as I say the main concern is vox, the budget is £200 or less (roughly $390 dollars or less).

Any advice would be much appreciated

Declan

 

[mixsit]

A few things to watch out for though- In both cases (the guitar and vocals) the goals you've indicated can be problems' that compressors in some ways are poor solution. Specifically, if the situation is where a signal is for relatively large blocks of time at low, then high volumes, the compressor be being asked (perhaps) to remain stable and at gain reduction ie, not pumping. 'Aphex IIRC has (had?) something -the 'Compellor? you could check out.
The other aspect is that you can only go as loud without feed back as it was without the comp. So, in all cases unlike recording/mixing where you can add make up gain, you can only reduce from there.

All that aside, you might just try a used dbx 166xl, set it 2:1 or so. The dbx 'auto mode is fairly slick right out of the box (but not a slow leveler I should add-) and the 'xl also has all the other manual goodies for whatever..

 

[tdukex]

Why don't you just turn the vocal mic up in the mix?

 

[MOFO Pro]

Why don't you just turn the vocal mic up in the mix?

Because he's got both hands on the guitar while he's playing live??

I'd say whispery vocals really do merit a compressor (compander)while performng live, though back in the studio, just record it dry and ride the gain on mixdown

 

[guitar junkie]

One of the big things though is to make sure that in an open mic setting you have a very fast setup time.

The thing about open mic shows is you need to be mobile and portable so that soundcheck should only last a couple minutes.

If you go to a "writers" night they could give a crap about the PA sound all they want is a GOOD song, so most of the guys who do those show up with a guitar that plugs right in straight to the board without needing a whole lot of tweaking to sound good.

Vocals are the weakest link for a lot of performers because in the open mic setting the longer you spend wanking around with a sound guy the less interest you will get from the audience which a lot of times is other musicians waiting their turn. The more time you take setting up your "rig" the shorter the time other musicians farther down the list will be able to play before the venue closes. So take into consideration how much time you are willing to take away from other musicians.

You might be better to figure out how to sing at a more level volume when performing live.

 

[MOFO Pro]

Bring the preset compressor with an insert cable... plug it into power and the insert on the desk... and you're done

 

[mixsit]

One of the big things though is to make sure that in an open mic setting you have a very fast setup time.

The thing about open mic shows is you need to be mobile and portable so that soundcheck should only last a couple minutes.

If you go to a "writers" night they could give a crap about the PA sound all they want is a GOOD song, so most of the guys who do those show up with a guitar that plugs right in straight to the board without needing a whole lot of tweaking to sound good.

Vocals are the weakest link for a lot of performers because in the open mic setting the longer you spend wanking around with a sound guy the less interest you will get from the audience which a lot of times is other musicians waiting their turn. The more time you take setting up your "rig" the shorter the time other musicians farther down the list will be able to play before the venue closes. So take into consideration how much time you are willing to take away from other musicians.

You might be better to figure out how to sing at a more level volume when performing live.

--Good call. (My itallics ) Open mics'. Yikes I missed that point.
This is a whole different ball game-
a)

"I'd say whispery vocals really do merit a compressor"

What's a compressor going to do for wispy vocals?

and b)

Bring the preset compressor with an insert cable... plug it into power and the insert on the desk... and you're done

Whada ya wana' bet here, particularly in your typical situations out there- more or less feed back and sound hassles?

Here's a bit. You can catch, someone like BB King'll do this.. When they set him up he'll grab the mic and pull it back out of his face several inches. Two things happen. It sets the stage for the sound tech to treat his vocal in a more traditional 'old school manner. And it sets him up to have all that gain available for his dynamic range -and control.

The only problem with this plan for lowly folks in the trenches like most of us- Good luck. Our 'typical' situations/sound techs- They're not going to have either the skill, the set up, nor likely the inclination to cover your ass if you try to push these things too far. (Just as likely someone'll be sitting there at the board going 'to bad he ain't up on the mic.'
All these fixes are good to have in your 'tool box'- but most of the time... it'll come down to mic technique, and laying it down solid.

 

[jimmi]

You cant preset a compressor. full stop.

If what you're playing sounds good to you in your living room without any mics etc. Maybe just sit way back from the mic and get comfortable and play your songs hoping everyone shuts up.

This is advice from someone who hasn't the balls to get up at an open mic so ounce of salt on request. You obviously have said balls so let the sound guy know what you want to get you comfortable and play your songs. Dropping the plec and finger strumming helps me in a quiet room. But you need people to have the courtisy(spell) to stfu - or you could be an ass like damien rice and just demand from the start that everyone stfu.

 

[jimmi]

One of the big things though is to make sure that in an open mic setting you have a very fast setup time.

The thing about open mic shows is you need to be mobile and portable so that soundcheck should only last a couple minutes.

If you go to a "writers" night they could give a crap about the PA sound all they want is a GOOD song, so most of the guys who do those show up with a guitar that plugs right in straight to the board without needing a whole lot of tweaking to sound good.

Vocals are the weakest link for a lot of performers because in the open mic setting the longer you spend wanking around with a sound guy the less interest you will get from the audience which a lot of times is other musicians waiting their turn. The more time you take setting up your "rig" the shorter the time other musicians farther down the list will be able to play before the venue closes. So take into consideration how much time you are willing to take away from other musicians.

You might be better to figure out how to sing at a more level volume when performing live.

Yeah, exactly what the junky said but with more emphasis on your comfort.

 

[jimmi]

You cant preset a compressor. full stop.

If what you're playing sounds good to you in your living room without any mics etc. Maybe just sit way back from the mic and get comfortable and play your songs hoping everyone shuts up.

This is advice from someone who hasn't the balls to get up at an open mic so ounce of salt on request. You obviously have said balls so let the sound guy know what you want to get you comfortable and play your songs. Dropping the plec and finger strumming helps me in a quiet room. But you need people to have the courtisy(spell) to stfu - or you could be an ass like damien rice and just demand from the start that everyone stfu.

 

[gecko zzed]

Hi, I've recently started playing live sets with just me and my acoustic guitar, so far I've done two open mics and I've gotta say I'm not really happy with how they went sound wise.

The key phrase for me is "recently started playing live sets". If you only recently started playing, then you have a whole lot of playing in front of you. At this stage, I would not depend on technological fixes for the fundamental problem, which is your vocal performance.

As you've discovered, it's one thing to play to yourself at home, and another to perform in front of a (sometimes noisy) audience. That challenge has to be met and mastered, and the best advice I can give is forget the technology, and concentrate on developing a stage presence. Play lots of live gigs, and get some strength and projection into your voice.

 

[tdukex]

Because he's got both hands on the guitar while he's playing live??

Sorry, I guess I don't understand his setup. Why wouldn't he just use two mics--each on it's own channel--and turn the vocal mic channel volume up?

It doesn't make any sense to me why someone playing live would rather spend $400 on compression than a proper two-mic setup.

 

[witzendoz]

1) Forget any compression at this stage.
2) Check that the 2 mics are not out of phase, or if using a Di that it is not out of phase with the vocal mic.
3) Get your mouth as close to the vocal mic as possible, and stay there. Having you face in front of the vocal mic blocks out the guitar spill.
4) If using a Guitar mic, use a condenser on the guitar with a tight pattern, you are trying to get rid of vocal on this mic.

At the end of the day you will get some vocal in the guitar mic and some guitar in the vocal mic, so when mixing blend the 2 so that the overall sound is good, then place a little compression over the mix of the 2 mics if required.

Don't forget you have to sing and play the guitar at similar volume, which you should be doing anyway (buskers and folk artists do), practice this at home.

Cheers

Alan