Narrowed down to three! (For acoustic guitar)

[quietude]

Hi guys, I realise people must grow tiresome of these threads, but I could really do with your honest opinions.

Basically I've been reading numerous threads around here and narrowed down my choice to three microphones to use for recording my acoustic guitar.

These three, from what I've read, seem to garner the most praise. They are:

Shure SM81
Shure KSM137
AKG C 451 B.

I'll mostly be doing stuff involving just acoustic guitar and vocals, perhaps a piano or organ here and there.

My budget dictates that I can't get a matched pair of either of them, so I'll be micing the guitar with just a single mic, which will be going through an M-Audio DMP-3 then into my Audiophile 2496.

I suppose the only thing I'd like to avoid is a mic that tends to sound quite bright (on average. I know there are a number of factors that contribute to the sound you hear recorded). I like a mellow and balanced tone, or perhaps a tone on the darker side, if that makes any sense.

If there are any suggestions for a different microphone that would suit my needs well, I guess I'd like to hear them too.

Thanks a lot.

 

[antichef]

what kind of guitar(s) do you have? How does it (do they) sound? How do you play? What type(s) of music do you play?

 

[quietude]

what kind of guitar(s) do you have? How does it (do they) sound? How do you play? What type(s) of music do you play?

My guitar is an old Yamaha FG-180, to me it's very mellow sounding. I mostly play without a plectrum, and when strumming the strings sound as if they're being brushed. That's the best way I can describe it. It certainly has nice bass to it, and the highs don't stand out that much which I personally like.

I mostly play acoustic rock/fingerpicking stuff.

I hope that helps you help me!

 

[dgatwood]

My guitar is an old Yamaha FG-180, to me it's very mellow sounding. I mostly play without a plectrum, and when strumming the strings sound as if they're being brushed. That's the best way I can describe it. It certainly has nice bass to it, and the highs don't stand out that much which I personally like.

I mostly play acoustic rock/fingerpicking stuff.

I hope that helps you help me!

If you like the sound as-is, my vote would be an Oktava MK-012 pair. They're great all-around SDCs, and they're slightly cheaper than the mics you're looking at ($675 for a matched pair, $468 + shipping if you don't mind buying from a Canadian dealer).

If you want the sound to be a lot less bass-heavy and a lot brighter, go with the SM81 pair, but if you like the way the guitar sounds live, don't be surprised if you hate the sound through the SM81.

I've heard good things about the other two on the list, but I've never used either, so I won't attempt to give an opinion on them.

You might also consider the AT4051. I've read several comments from folks who like those. Again, though, no opinion from me.

 

[drBill]

If there are any suggestions for a different microphone that would suit my needs well, I guess I'd like to hear them too.

Thanks a lot.

Your description of what you like, etc. SCREAMS KM84 (NOT 184) to me, but I suppose that may be out of your budget. I think the 451B will be too bright for you based on what you said. An older 451E or EB would be better, but still bright. I don't really like the SM81 so I wouldn't personally recommend it although I know some like it. No experience with the 137, sorry. Another option if you can afford around $500-600 or so is a Gefell 692 body with a M70 nickel cardiod capsule. It's very Neumann-esque, and sits about half way between the KM84 and 451E in terms of brightness. A very nice mic.

 

[omtayslick]

I like the 81 and use it myself. The other two mics that you mentioned are both brighter than the 81.

If you have a good sounding guitar, the 81 will reproduce that sound. If you have a bad sounding instrument the 81 will not add anything flattering. What goes in is what comes out.

 

[antichef]

oh - I actually voted - which is kind of silly, because I only have one of the mics you listed.

I also like the SM81 - I usually play a Martin dreadnought with a plectrum (? a pick), but have also recorded a fake Gibson dreadnought, a Guild 12 string, and several other thinner sounding guitars with it, and have been happy with the results. I also like the Oktava MC-012s.

One question I forgot to ask -- will your recordings of acoustic often be mixed with a bunch of other instruments, or will the arrangements be more sparse? I tend to like the SM81 in a denser mix and the MC-012 in a sparse mix.

 

[Big Kenny]

oh - I actually voted - which is kind of silly, because I only have one of the mics you listed.

I also like the SM81 - I usually play a Martin dreadnought with a plectrum (? a pick), but have also recorded a fake Gibson dreadnought, a Guild 12 string, and several other thinner sounding guitars with it, and have been happy with the results. I also like the Oktava MC-012s.

One question I forgot to ask -- will your recordings of acoustic often be mixed with a bunch of other instruments, or will the arrangements be more sparse? I tend to like the SM81 in a denser mix and the MC-012 in a sparse mix.

what he said...

 

[pohaku]

I haven't used the Shure KSM137. If you don't want bright, you won't like the AKG. I've never been enamored of the SM81. While the KM84 or a Beyer MC930 would probably be ideal, both are probably out of your price range. The Oktava is a good recommendation for acoustic instruments and well worth considering. Another consideration is an Audio Technica AT-4041. 0r better yet, if you can swing it, an AT-4051. Used AT-4051s go for @ $250 on e-bay and show up with some frequency. A very nice, high quality, relatively unhyped SD mic, especially for solo acoustic stuff.

 

[sound125]

The Beyer M930 is nothing short of phenomenal. What makes it stellar is its warm midrange quality and its ability to capture rich detail. It supercedes the KM184, M300 and many of the B&K mics I've used over the years for live recording applications. I also like the SM81s and have used them for many years. They are rugged, reliable and deliver a nice flat response. You can't go wrong with owning a stereo pair. But if it were me, I'd go with the Beyer M930, it's spectacular.

 

[tc4b]

If you're intent on single-micing it, don't rule out an LDC. If you have a nice room to record in, an LDC placed a foot, foot and a half back can sound nice. I've used and AT4040, liked it.

 

[quietude]

Thanks for all the opinions and advice so far. It's very helpful and it's certainly given me lots of food for thought.

I live in the UK and I'm having a hard time finding UK retailers for some of the microphones recommended. Though a few of them are perhaps out of my budget (especially when considering a pair).

However, I can't believe I created this thread and forgot to include the Oktava MK-012s. They seem to attract unanimous approval!

I think I've found a matched pair on thomann. I'm unsure of the model number though. OKTAVA MK 012-01 MSP2. Anyone got any idea what the 01 MSP2 signifies? I can't post a link as I haven't posted enough times to have that luxury.

One question I forgot to ask -- will your recordings of acoustic often be mixed with a bunch of other instruments, or will the arrangements be more sparse? I tend to like the SM81 in a denser mix and the MC-012 in a sparse mix.

I think most of what I'll record will be quite sparse, a lot of stuff will be just guitar and vocals. Maybe some kind of piano or keyboard accompanying the guitar, and some light drums occasionally. I can't imagine there'll be more than that in the mix as I don't have access to much else.

 

[MCI2424]

Hi guys, I realise people must grow tiresome of these threads, but I could really do with your honest opinions.

Basically I've been reading numerous threads around here and narrowed down my choice to three microphones to use for recording my acoustic guitar.

These three, from what I've read, seem to garner the most praise. They are:

Shure SM81
Shure KSM137
AKG C 451 B.

I'll mostly be doing stuff involving just acoustic guitar and vocals, perhaps a piano or organ here and there.

My budget dictates that I can't get a matched pair of either of them, so I'll be micing the guitar with just a single mic, which will be going through an M-Audio DMP-3 then into my Audiophile 2496.

I suppose the only thing I'd like to avoid is a mic that tends to sound quite bright (on average. I know there are a number of factors that contribute to the sound you hear recorded). I like a mellow and balanced tone, or perhaps a tone on the darker side, if that makes any sense.

If there are any suggestions for a different microphone that would suit my needs well, I guess I'd like to hear them too.

Thanks a lot.

AKG C 451 B. hands down.

 

[pohaku]

Thanks for all the opinions and advice so far. It's very helpful and it's certainly given me lots of food for thought.

I live in the UK and I'm having a hard time finding UK retailers for some of the microphones recommended. Though a few of them are perhaps out of my budget (especially when considering a pair).

However, I can't believe I created this thread and forgot to include the Oktava MK-012s. They seem to attract unanimous approval!

I think I've found a matched pair on thomann. I'm unsure of the model number though. OKTAVA MK 012-01 MSP2. Anyone got any idea what the 01 MSP2 signifies? I can't post a link as I haven't posted enough times to have that luxury.



I think most of what I'll record will be quite sparse, a lot of stuff will be just guitar and vocals. Maybe some kind of piano or keyboard accompanying the guitar, and some light drums occasionally. I can't imagine there'll be more than that in the mix as I don't have access to much else.

OK. Didn't know you were in the UK. Gear availability and pricing is certainly different in Europe than the US. I don't know what Beyer pricing is like there, perhaps better than here. You can get a matched set of MC930s for a bit over $700 here, but singles aren't discounted as much. You might check around and see what you could pick up a single MC930 for in your market. Aside from a Neumann KM84, I'd pick the Beyer over any of the other mics mentioned here so far. Otherwise I'd take the Oktava.

 

[maccool]

I can't comment on any of the mic's mentioned, but I would like to ask how good you think your room is.

My room is crap!

I have the use of good mic's and guitars, but until I fix my space with broadband absorbers and bass traps this small room just does not work for the kind of fingerstyle guitar I play.

I could use AKG 451EB/CK1, Geffel M300 matched pair, Neumann TLM 103 (well, I like it!) and M149. They all hear too much of the crappy room!

And, without treatment the low 7'6" ceiling wreaks havoc with my bigger guitars, especially a OOO-28VS Martin which flat-out honks anytime an A-note is played when I'm sitting to play. I've figured that the guitar's top is actually coupling acoustically with the ceiling and floor! No mic in the world is going to fix that.

My go-to mic/guitar combo at the moment is an SM-57 on a parlor guitar. Hey, whatever works! The -57 can't hear a gnat fart across the room like the M149 does, so doesn't hear the crappy room so good either, and the small body of the parlor guitar doesn't respond in such a lively fashion to the vertical axial mode of the room.

In short, if your room is as crappy as mine, I'd suggest using a 57 while you spend what you can on fixing the room. Then go catch your next mic's.

If you have a great room, please ignore this

 

[quietude]

I can't comment on any of the mic's mentioned, but I would like to ask how good you think your room is.

My room is crap!

I have the use of good mic's and guitars, but until I fix my space with broadband absorbers and bass traps this small room just does not work for the kind of fingerstyle guitar I play.

I could use AKG 451EB/CK1, Geffel M300 matched pair, Neumann TLM 103 (well, I like it!) and M149. They all hear too much of the crappy room!

And, without treatment the low 7'6" ceiling wreaks havoc with my bigger guitars, especially a OOO-28VS Martin which flat-out honks anytime an A-note is played when I'm sitting to play. I've figured that the guitar's top is actually coupling acoustically with the ceiling and floor! No mic in the world is going to fix that.

My go-to mic/guitar combo at the moment is an SM-57 on a parlor guitar. Hey, whatever works! The -57 can't hear a gnat fart across the room like the M149 does, so doesn't hear the crappy room so good either, and the small body of the parlor guitar doesn't respond in such a lively fashion to the vertical axial mode of the room.

In short, if your room is as crappy as mine, I'd suggest using a 57 while you spend what you can on fixing the room. Then go catch your next mic's.

If you have a great room, please ignore this

Great reply.

I think I've been naive in thinking that acquiring a revered microphone, such as the ones mentioned in this thread will instantly give me a great recorded guitar sound.

Your post has brought me back to reality and reminded me that there's a lot more to it than that.

Basically I'll be honest and tell you where I'm at. (Please don't ridicule me guys )

I currently have an AT2020 going into a Behringer UB802 (I've been considering getting an M-Audio DMP3, as mentioned earlier. Will that help things at all?) then finally into my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard.

I've tried the mic in so many different positions on about 3 different guitars. I just CANNOT get the guitar to sound how I want it to for the life of me. I'm not trying to get studio-esque results, at least I don't think I am. To my ears the recorded guitar just sounds dire.

My recordings all have no hiss on them (which troubles me, because all my favourite records seem to be riddled with it) which I suppose is good, but the guitar just sounds so distant. It doesn't sound instant and in your face at all. Would that be due to the mic "capturing all the room?"

As I've already said a lot of recordings I hear have so much noise on them, but the guitar sounds in your face still. Whereas mine are the opposite. No noise but the guitar sounds so distant. I really can't emphasise that enough. The thing that troubles me the most is the fact that the guitar sounds so distant, that's the best way I can describe it.

Sorry for the wall of text. I'd really like any advice you guys can give me.

 

[antichef]

the guitar just sounds so distant. It doesn't sound instant and in your face at all. Would that be due to the mic "capturing all the room?"

Absolutely, yes.

Try rearranging things, using chairs, pillows, etc. to create a "room" around where you're recording (within reason) and change the direction you're facing, too - if you notice a big change/improvement in the sound, then you're definitely going down the right path.

also, if you have a patient guitar playing friend, you can get him/her to play in different parts of your room/house, facing different ways, while you stand back and listen for the best sound. Doing this sort of stuff is free (with the possible exception of the friend, for whom a beverage of some sort may be required), and can help you determine what you might need to do to your room.

 

[sound125]

I currently have an AT2020 going into a Behringer UB802 (I've been considering getting an M-Audio DMP3, as mentioned earlier. Will that help things at all?) then finally into my M-Audio Audiophile 2496 soundcard.

The AT2020 has no proximity effect, so you won't get that really close up sound that you want. Even with its slight bass roll off, it still performs quite well on acoustic sources, avoiding the boomy low end you hear on many low end mics. But if you want that larger than life sound, you're going to have to spend some money, because your better mics usually have a sweet midrange and lucious low end quality that sometimes provide a larger than life quality.

Regarding pres, the DMP3 would be able to handle any of the mics mentioned on this thread. But if you're looking for a fatter proximate sound for your acoustic guitar, then you might want to look at your Neve type pres.

 

[jarrydee]

I also have a crap room!!

So what I do is...

I bought a few moving blankets from home depot ($14 each) and when I record acoustic guitar I use a few tacks to tack up the blankets in fount of me..I have been using a Grace Design m101 and a se Electronics se2200a..sometimes a Blue Bluebird mic!! It comes out sounding great!!
But like said above..you may need to move around the room and find a good spot even with the blankets!!

I also built some frames out of PVC for a gobo...just use those big clamps (look like big cloths line pins) to hold the blankets to the frame....and you can take the frame apart when your done recording!!!!

 

[quietude]

I think I'll go manufacture myself a homemade gobo and see where that gets me, I've been thinking of doing something like that for a while.

I still want a new microphone though, especially after learning of this "proximity effect." Which cheapish microhpones are effected by proximity? Would a SM57 be?

I still haven't completely ruled out a Beyer MC930 (would that provide the proximity effect?), but after reading what maccool had to say, I'd be worried that I'd just be picking up even more of the room, since it's an expensive, sensitive mic. Or would a gobo eliminate that issue?

Am I becoming rapidly obsessed with the "proximity effect" when I shouldn't be?