Outboard Gear? Is it necessary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Guitar4life0000
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pipelineaudio said:
"Outboard Gear? Is it necessary? "

Which devolved into a claim that plugs couldnt be used on input which was the notion I was trying to correct
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I never said they "couldn't." You attributed too much to my original post.

Now we're back to interpretation.
 
MadAudio said:
I never said they "couldn't." You attributed too much to my original post.

Now we're back to interpretation.
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And to clarify - since I never got ASIO drivers to work for me in the first place, I never even knew that ASIO plugins could be used in monitor mode. So forgive the fuck out of me for being so ignorant.
 
MadAudio said:
Again, you seem to think this is just my problem and not yours as well. It's a universal problem with communicating by mere text. I'm sure that if we hung out in real life we'd get along fine.
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again, i was talking in general terms and not personally to you. Dont take it personally :cool:

and as far as me, i guess i just dont know WHAT to do... damned if i do, damned if i dont as i said.

MadAudio said:
Strip bars are disgusting to me. I have too much respect for women than to treat them as playthings. I used to date a stripper, and it was seeing that world up close that made me realize how demeaning it is for both the dancers and their patrons.
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totally, man... never been to one in my life, dont plan on it. we can certainly agree here.
 
Calm down fellas.

I've got several cool pieces of outboard gear in the studio, and several nice plugins (UAD's specifically). The plugins sound great for most cases. However, when you really want to hit your compressors hard, the similarity between plugin and hardware ends. For example, I have an 1176 and the UAD 1176 plugin. When doing less than 10dB gain reduction, the plugin is great, but when doing more than that, or all buttons mode, it gets cruchy in a bad way.
If forced to, I could do without the hardware and deal with my UAD plugs, but since I have the luxury of a few pieces of nice hardware, I'll take advantage of them. I wouldn't sweat it if I didn't, though.

Craig
 
Not all plugins are like that though

In fact, add more than 3 db on ANY analog eq vs even +12 on a linear phase DSP and get back to me :)

Also there are more than a few WYSIWYG dsp compressors and no analog ones, with the 160SL probably coming the closest. There is no law that things "need to get crunchy" just the opposite, as the volume wars tell us, "transparent dynamic range changes can go WAY further in DSP than practical analog
 
pipelineaudio said:
Not all plugins are like that though

In fact, add more than 3 db on ANY analog eq vs even +12 on a linear phase DSP and get back to me :)

Also there are more than a few WYSIWYG dsp compressors and no analog ones, with the 160SL probably coming the closest. There is no law that things "need to get crunchy" just the opposite, as the volume wars tell us, "transparent dynamic range changes can go WAY further in DSP than practical analog
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I've built a couple of Pultec type EQ's that can sound lovely with a +12 boost (of course, I think I'd want to just re-track something before have to EQ to that extreme, analog or digital).

I think when it comes to every modelled compressor plugin, my statement hold true. Although I've only demo'd the plug, the EMI limiter plugin might be the best emulation I've heard at higher compression levels.

The difference in our opinion sounds like what we're using compression for. You want transparent gain reduction, I want something that's more like an effect with gain reduction as a side effect.

BTW, I don't think new, loudness wars era stuff shows transparent DSP compression at all. The compression is obvious and ugly. On the contrary, it's known that Geoff Emerick HAMMERED the Altec and Fairchild compressors at Abbey Road and their action, while clearly audible, is an effect that enhances the recordings.
 
craigmorris74 said:
If forced to, I could do without the hardware and deal with my UAD plugs, but since I have the luxury of a few pieces of nice hardware, I'll take advantage of them. I wouldn't sweat it if I didn't, though.
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Well put. I could mix a record either way, so it certainly isn't something I'd worry about. Take care of the basics first though, before you go buying a stereo Distressor or something...

Frank
 
I think a lot of people like to assume that if they have X gear or Y plug ins that they will make this amazing sounding record. But having the KNOWLEDGE of how to use them is how you make your decision. Now with that said, I typically go with my hardware that I have and supplement that with plugs if it needs it.

I wonder if this will be argued for the rest of time?
 
Use what works for you. Two different engineers may record the exact same performance two completely different ways, and they both might get great results. It's important to know what you're doing, experiment, and get to know your gear intimately. It's not important what brand it is, or whether it's in- our outside the box.

Is outboard gear 'neccessary?' Technically, no. You can get by without it. Personally, i use some and wouldn't give it up any time soon because it works well for me, and I'm very familiar with its abilities and limitations. Good tools.

I guess what I'm saying, or rather asking, is, what the hell is it besides personal preference? To me, it's like arguing sport-team superiority. Two knowledgeable people can argue the merits of their favorite teams' superiority ad infinitum, but in the end, what the hell's the difference? And in the case of gear, why is it even necessary to pick teams?
 
pipelineaudio said:
Yup

though I guess it depends on which "better" we are measuring
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Well, outboard gear has a better QB and defensive line, but plugins have that running back and a phenomenal secondary. It may come down to coaching or simply home field advantage, or 'whoever wants it more.'
 
tc4b said:
Well, outboard gear has a better QB and defensive line, but plugins have that running back and a phenomenal secondary. It may come down to coaching or simply home field advantage, or 'whoever wants it more.'
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Brilliant!
 
pipelineaudio said:
Can you clarify this? Either I'm not understanding your objection, or you are missing some of the improvements that have been made lately
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Can you clarify this statement? Are you saying AISO will give me a no latency pluged monitor signal to track with? Explain this to me if you could.

Thanks!
Josh
 
It won't give you "no" latency

ASIO DM will give you converter latency only, as fast as any digital device, but monitoring THRU plugins thru asio will get you some useably low times

Good asio drivers will get you under 6 msec of actual roundtrip latency even thru plugins. Some people still claim thats too much, but the same people put up with 12 msec of trigger delay on their midi gear or more.
 
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