Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
Please read post #20....
Z
Zeke_Sayer
New member
Depending on what type of sound you're going for....me usually recording rock music, i tend to throw a d112 on the cab (If you have 10's in the cab, mic one of those. usually a good spot is between the cone and edge of speaker, but play around with it.) I run the d112 right into the recorder, I'm sure if you run it through whatever pre-amp though, sounds will vary. A little compression and EQ tweaking (only if needed) and there ya go.
And depending on what type of speakers you are monitoring your mix though, it could sound like shit if the speakers wont produce the freq. the mic is picking up. Play the recording through a proper sound system though....and wow.
Good luck .
- Zeke
And depending on what type of speakers you are monitoring your mix though, it could sound like shit if the speakers wont produce the freq. the mic is picking up. Play the recording through a proper sound system though....and wow.
Good luck .
- Zeke
B
Bob's Mods
New member
Daisy - Zero'd in the problem - my bass is bottom heavy
When I play out at the blues jam, my bass is the fattest sounding one. I always get comments about my fat sound. Its dynamic and fat. I believe thats the core of my problem. I've done even more radical EQing and the bass track fits right in. I can really hear it. The other tracks mix even better too. I've really tweaked and high passed the low end in a radical way. The bass now stands out. You can hear the mids. I was never comfortable with such radical EQ but sure enough it req'd esp on bass. Getting the bass to sit right has a global effect on the entire mix.
When I play out at the blues jam, my bass is the fattest sounding one. I always get comments about my fat sound. Its dynamic and fat. I believe thats the core of my problem. I've done even more radical EQing and the bass track fits right in. I can really hear it. The other tracks mix even better too. I've really tweaked and high passed the low end in a radical way. The bass now stands out. You can hear the mids. I was never comfortable with such radical EQ but sure enough it req'd esp on bass. Getting the bass to sit right has a global effect on the entire mix.
jmorris
New member
how the bass track sits in the mix when NOT solo'd is all due to it's relationship to freq's of all the other instruments/voices.
V
Vulconizer
We are your overlords...
Just for fun, try using the DI, micing the amp, and then placing a mic out in front of the bass right where the neck meets the body, a couple of inches or so off of the strings.
Mix the string sound in to taste and it will brighten it up nicely.
I have used it before and I was very pleased with the results.
Mix the string sound in to taste and it will brighten it up nicely.
I have used it before and I was very pleased with the results.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
NL5
Unpossible!
Yep. Everybody these days wants their guitars to sound big and heavy. They solo them, and make 'em huge. No room left for bass. What they don't realize is they will sound even bigger if you have the bass filling in the bottom end. Guitars just don't do bottom like a bass.
Also, as I believe has been mentioned, dialing in the bass itself is HUGE. If all the mids and highs are rolled off with tone or eq knobs, it's never going to stand out in the mix.
B
Bob's Mods
New member
I completely agree just how important getting the bass track right is. Its been an ongoing problem for me for years. I never got into carving the low end up but boy what a difference it makes to getting the bass track to sit nicely into the mix. The rest of the mix stands out better too. Tweaking the low range is SO critical to creating a great mix it cannot be understated. Its important to "record" your tracks flat but....EQing the low end in the context of the mix really is the polish that makes it shine. Thanks for the great fixes from the home wrecking crew!
Please enjoy this demo Ditty 54 I did a few years ago. The bass came out half decent for some reason even though I high passed it at 45hz. It could be even better if I tweaked it with what I've recently learned. The drums are just a rythum track I use for recording..nothing fancy. Guitars and bass all me. Enjoy.
Bob Mod.
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?id=13358
NL5
Unpossible!
That's pretty much the opposite of what I said, or at least was trying to say. It's much better to attack the sound at the source than try and do some sort of corrective eq afterwards. I generally do very little eq'ing of bass tracks - maybe a small cut around 400 and a slight boost at 1k. That's about it, unless they were recorded with some sort of problem. I also like to hit them pretty hard with a comp to bring out the overtones.
I will say this, very minute changes in level on the bass and the kick can really glue them together, as well as the song. It's one of the toughest things to get down, and most amateurs, and a lot of "pro's" don't do it very well.
B
Bob's Mods
New member
I would think there are more tweaking options when the track is recorded flat and EQ'd with software in the mix. Trying to get it right on the front end going in is pretty tough to do.
M
mixsit
Well-known member
I couldn't pull that off. A few main reasons- I'm not in an isolated monitor environment to make fine low end decissions during tracking (on playbacks I get shots at tweaking as tracking progresses), The need to keep things rolling out weighs re-runs to fine tune something like that... but even if I was I doubt I could make a call at that stage like that anyway. We're talking the final combined resting place of kick and bass-? typically +/- a two or three db shelf cut on the bass? Hell no.
Nope.
Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
It's not always easy to do with most home studios. There isn't a bevy of amps, DI's and good quality rooms to track in. Most of my bass tracks have been DI from my mixer to the MR-8. I used to mess with the eq on the mixer, but always ended up doing massive cuts on the low end after the fact. Now I track it with 0 response on the eq, and sometimes I use my sansamp bass driver DI if I want a bit of distortion or to give it a good growl.
The biggest problem I have right now is that I get too much low end in my mixes, as compared to a commercial recording. I've noticed that if you take the eq out of a home stereo that the bass in a lot of commercial mixes is almost non-existant. They seem to mix for the standard home stereo with massive bass boost. I aim for that, and haven't been able to get there yet.
Probably will finally get it on my death bed...
I
Ironklad Audio
New member
you're right that a lot of mixes seem low in the bass...unless you were to take it out. i heard a joke a while back that went something like this:
why'd the bass player's girlfriend dump him?
because she didn't miss him until he was gone
take this sort of approach when mixing bass...pull the fader down all the way, then raise it until the bass is barely audible. push it way back up, and back down, until you find that happy medium where it's there, but it's not THERE.
why'd the bass player's girlfriend dump him?
because she didn't miss him until he was gone
take this sort of approach when mixing bass...pull the fader down all the way, then raise it until the bass is barely audible. push it way back up, and back down, until you find that happy medium where it's there, but it's not THERE.
D
Daisy
Banned
Well ... you see, there are these round things called knobs. Some call them "dials."
And they're on your bass. You turn them, and the sound changes.
And in your case, there's probably one knob you like to turn that makes the walls shake ... you'll want to try turning that one in the other direction. Just a suggestion - take it for what it's worth.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
Most likely their mixing for a playback system with flat response. Take those same recordings and play them back on quality THX entertainment center in a room designed to at least not sound bad, and I'm sure there will be plenty of bass there.
There are a whloe crapload of playback systems with serious problems in bass response. You know how this is the #1 problem with monitoring in the control room of the home studio? Well, it's no less of a problem in the playback room. Add in the number od under-driven consumer loudspeakers or loudspeakers with a freq response that doesn't become flat until 100Hz, and there will be issues. trying to "plan" for them in the studio is a mistake.
G.
T
tubbabubba22
New member
what are some good mics to mic a bass amp? do 57's work?
D
Daisy
Banned
If you're combining with a DI, then yes; they're excellent for that.
If not, then you'll probably want something with a more extended low end response, like an RE-20.
Rokket
Trailing Behind Again
So I should just mix to my system and screw trying to get to a flat response? Sounds good to me.
Now I really need to get a real pair of monitors. What I have sucks (Bose, for crying out loud. Talk about over-enhanced bass response). Right now I am on headphones due to being deployed, so I am really hurting.
NL5
Unpossible!
Well ... you see, there are these round things called knobs. Some call them "dials."
And they're on your bass. You turn them, and the sound changes.
And in your case, there's probably one knob you like to turn that makes the walls shake ... you'll want to try turning that one in the other direction. Just a suggestion - take it for what it's worth.
This is what I was talking about. If you read my first post, I was talking about tone and/or eq knobs on the bass itself. If you don't set that right, you can make it impossible to fix. No amount of boost can put frequencies back in that are gone. Been there. Not fun.
I really am amazed at the amount of people who have a problem with this. The bass guitar really naturally goes well with guitars. Try playing a bass alongside a guitar in a room. They naturally go together. Same with drums. I think people are making this way harder than it need be. Although, I suspect that it has way more to do with a poor monitoring environment. Bob's sample is a prime example of this - listening on my monitors, the bass is just mud. I'm willing to bet he has a huge node around 250-400 hz.
B
Bob's Mods
New member
Sure, record your track as close as you can to how you would like it sound then.....use EQ to fit it into the mix...whatever level of EQ may be required.
There seems to be a bias to limit the use of EQ. Yes, track at the target sound your looking for, flat going in then use EQ as a corrective tool to make it fit with the rest of the mix. Its a dual process. My take on the use of EQ is that it is similar to a big commercial studio that has a good recording room and an engineer is on the other side of the glass. The band plays the tune so that the engineer can position mics, amp tones and baffles to get the tune to sound proper as a complete mix on his side of the glass. He probably will use some comsole hi pass filters and a touch of console EQ as well to round out the entire mix.
As someone who layers tracks, I see the use of EQ as essential to getting the mix to fit right. Its similar to the engineer in a commercial studio moving mics around and such. When he does that on the front end, it is similar to making EQ changes on the back end. He's just changing the EQ by an alternate preferred method rather than the doing it synthetically on the back end using a gadget that boosts and cuts the freq band. When I layer, I can only record the track as I want that track to sound and thats it. Once its in the mix EQ helps it to fit. The thought that the use of EQ should be minimized to preserve the integretity of the original track just doesn't seem to work in the context of the mix, at least when layering, as many of us home wreckers do. My experiences have born this out. EQ is a required part of the process...not so much as a creative tool but a fix-it tool. Its probably less neccessary when recording a full band in one go because there are other methods available to the recording engineer to fix his mix. Changing his EQ is probably his last option if nothing else works. As a home wrecker with a poor quality room who layers his own tracks, writes his own stuff, plays his own instruments as well as doubles as recording and mastering engineer, I find EQ a fundamental tool for the mixing process. I have never had one person ever say to me "Hey, you're screwing your mixes up with that EQ." The lay people compliment me on how good my mixes sound.
I have been afraid to use EQ in a radical way previously because of the many well intentioned statements similar to the above. But now I've learned from this thread....use it in whatever way is required to get each track fit properly into the mix. Its not used to screw the mix up but to make it sound as if a full band was recorded all at the same time. Record your track how you would like it to sound at the source....flat goin in....then use corrective EQ for each track in whatever way is required to get them all to play together nicely in a complete mix. Sure, if your a big buget studio then do it the right way but hey...as home wreckers we've got to compromise. There just is no choice in the matter. I do not feel its that much of a big deal. Its transparent if you do it right and it works super for us spare bedroom recorders.
If my thinking on this is flawed...please...beat me up and leave me for dead. Does this make sense cyber space denizens of the wrecked world?
Bob
