formulaic songwriting

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spy said one

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as far as my songs go, i don't often deviate from the standard verse-chorus-verse... formula, and when i try to, it tends to sound forced, or unnatural. i don't think there's anything wrong with a typical song structure, but i would like to mix it up a bit more. other than simply playing and feeling it out, are there any little tricks to make a simple song more interesting?
 
Yeah, you can use rhythmic or phrase changes... Keep the simple 3 part song structure but within each of the three parts apply pattern changes to each phrase. You can even deviate from the melody, if you want; just make sure if flows...
 
try writing a bridge and then maybe a key change...
 
I can't live without a Middle-8 (or as some call it a bridge) - what I call a bridge you call a pre-chorus.

No matter what people call it you should try stuff out - experiment
 
There is nothing wrog with tried and true formula writing - standard AABA type structure. Many people spend years working on the craft to achieve solid song structure.

The most common way to embellish that formula is as was already suggested adding a bridge (which can really add a lift to a song) or a modulation (which if done tastefully, can allow a song to build and allow the singer to hit stonger notes at the end of the song).

To keep my AABA songs interesting, I try very hard to alter the chord progression from verse to verse - which in turn allows the melody to go in a slightly different direction - allowing each verse to develop a little more.
 
When I create something, it is rare that I work with a preconceived structure in mind. However, most of my songs end up not too far from conventionality.

If I start with lyrics, I let them take shape their own shape they emerge, so, chronologically I might write a chorus, verse, verse.But I will place these in a sequence that suits the content (which could be verse chorus verse chorus, or verse verse chorus). Sometimes I write lines that would suit a bridge, so then I have a bridge to play with. Sometimes I just end up with a series of verses.

If I start with the music (which is more often the case), again I let the music decide for me, and the same thing happens. As I mentioned above, most end up being conventional patterns, but every now and again I get something where each bit is quite different from any other.
 
I've written songs with different component orders in order to break away from always sounding the same.

Most of the time I fall back into verse/chorus/verse like everbody else.

I recently posted a song that breaks the mold called, Sweeter Than James.

It starts with the chorus. A lot of songs do that. Also you can do something circular that I call bookends in my book. It's when someone writes a line of lyrics that is the first and last line of each verse. James Taylor's Carolina In My Mind comes to mind, which uses that device.

I've also written songs with no chorus.

You could also try to do the Y Y Y Y shyme scheme. In that there is no chorus, but a tag line that every verse ends with. An example would be Bob Dylan's Tangled Up In Blue, or Shelter From The Storm from the Blood On The Tracks album. In each case the line preceding the tag line gives it it's rhyming word. I call them the "set up" lines.

There are many different devices to use besides verse/chorus/verse
 
yeah, i like the ol' middle 8/bridge/whatever-you-call-it. i like a standard structure, i just worry about slipping into predictability. i guess it's important to keep everything varied. heck, some of my favorite bands don't even do that!

i'd really like to try out lyrical devices like that tag line trick. "casimir pulaski day" by sufjan stevens is really impressive to me, in that it's a simple repeating guitar part through the whole thing, and he really arranged a beautiful song around it.
 
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Let water find it's level - let the song find its form or let the form find its song. Start with one or the other and then relax and trust in it to guide you.
 
Old blues men always follow these arbitrary (and personally I think kind of retarded) rules. John Lee Hooker didn't always rhyme, didn't always line up his meters and words, and often stuck in a "chorus" wherever he felt like, and that's part of why his band recordings can sound alittle flat (because he's getting squeezed into the standard stuff that make band playing easier).

You're just using this because you've been conditioned to it, not because it's inherently better or worse.

Forging a new direction, however, is like fighting a mighty river. Your entire musical frame of mind comes from your culture, and your culture insists on AABA, but you don't have to follow it.

And who the hell decided songs have to rhyme? I'm personally finding it very annoying to beat that stupid habit.
 
Many of the songs I write don't have a chorus at all. I guess there are no set rules, just common practices. Recently though I have been purposely trying to write choruses into my songs as although I don't think they are necessary, I do recognise what a good chorus can add to a song.

Song structure can also be dependent on the type of music you are writing, obviously if your aim is to write a radio friendly pop song, then a standard structure using verse - chorus - verse etc. would probably suit well, and likewise other types of music may suit a different structure.

In the end i guess you can't really go wrong if you have good lyrics over a good chord progression.
 
jjhipv said:
In the end i guess you can't really go wrong if you have good lyrics over a good chord progression.
Click to expand...

There you go!!!!!! If you can tell a story or relay an emotion and do it with a good melody over an appropriate chord progression - that makes a good song

There are many great songs with no chorus (I can think of so many 60's folk songs) and many great songs with no bridge (too many to even try to think of) - there are also many, many great songs with a memorable chorus and/or a powerful bridge.

I personally enjoy and respect a well crafted song which does successfully use certain established conventions (intellegent lyrics, a memorable melody, clever rhymes, and a well thought out song structure) - to me, that is an important part of the craft which so many great writers have honored for decades (actually centuries).

As a writer who's goal is and has been to get songs published and placed (and who has achieved that goal with varied levels of success) - I can say with a reasonable degree of informed knowledge - to achieve any level of "commercial success" a writer must develop the skill and disipline to write to formula. However, each writer/composer must follow the path that feels right to them.

As Whatmysay indicated "let water find it's level"
 
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