off to a flying start...

  • Thread starter Thread starter drossfile
  • Start date Start date
drossfile

drossfile

nope
yes, i've read lots and lots from ethan winer, rick fitzpatrick, bubbagump, and massive master and THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!!!!

here it is:

basement room: 16' L, 9' W, 7.5' H
construction: clay tile walls, carpeted concrete floor, wood celing joists.
used for: tracking AND mixing.

ok, so for the past few days i've been building and mounting my 703/muslin bass traps. i have all four vertical corners, the celing corner above the mix position, and the two upper corners on the short sides of the room.

i can already notice a difference, and i'm not done yet. i'll be hanging 2" clouds above the drums and the mix position, some 2" absorbers in the typical spots, and a few more bass traps along the top corners.

but here's my problem: i've reconfigured my space several different ways, and the best all-around way is with my mixing desk up against the long wall. now, i realize this is bad (the good news is that it is indeed centered on that wall). i'm wondering just how bad, and is there any way to compensate for the proximity of that front wall? perhaps a combination of diffusion and absorption in front of and behind the mix position?

ideally, i'd move the control desk, but space is at a premium in this room, and as it is now i have no idea where i'm going to park my roland rd700sx when it arrives. i'd really appreciate any advice.

thanks! :)
 
would pics help?

200803060002.jpg


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200803060005.jpg
 
There's only a 26db difference between 50 and 70hz, what harm could that do? :eek:
 
well damn.

so "firing into a short dimension" refers to my proximity to the wall.

what about having the mix position face the long wall in the rectangular room. does that exacerbate an already bad situation?

and again, is there any way to compensate for this? there's no way i can move my desk out into the middle of the floor, and i do this as a hobby, not a profession (obviously). i just want to make the best possible recordings with what i have to work with.

everyone says that in a small room absorbers are a must for decent recordings, so i'm in the process of getting them up. surely all this work on trapping hasn't been a waste of time???

thanks for the response ethan--i was hoping you'd show up.

josh
 
Ethan Winer said:
Even more bass traps, including a wall of them behind you.

--Ethan
Click to expand...

so bass traps will also work on a flat surface, not just corners?

so a floor-to-celing flat wall of 4" absorbers will help? this, i can do.

i assume that if this is the case, i would be best served to leave a gap between the wall and the panels.

what about diffusion? behind the monitors? behind me? a combination of traps and diffusors?

thanks again, ethan. it means a lot that you're taking the time.
 
Mixing with your chin on the back of the mixer should help with your monitor angles
 
LemonTree said:
Mixing with your chin on the back of the mixer should help with your monitor angles
Click to expand...

i don't even know what this means. if you're referring to the lower speakers, those are simply there to put my actual monitors at ear level. look, i know my setup isn't ideal, but in case you missed my first few posts, i'm not a professional engineer, nor do i pretend to be one. this is all for my own amusement. if my half-ass studio amuses others, well then i guess that makes it fun for more people than just me.
 
drossfile said:
so "firing into a short dimension" refers to my proximity to the wall.
Click to expand...

depends - if you're talking about a side wall, then no, if you're talking about the wall behind your mix position, then yes. you could have problems both due to short reflection times off the back wall, and asymmetrical response due to the side wall being closer to one side than the other. the front-back problem can be solved with bass trapping and diffusion - depending on the amount of space available. side-to-side is tougher because amplitude changes is different than time delays so you either need to increase absorption/diffusion on the sides or find some way to balance the boundaries on either side of the mix position.
 
gullfo said:
depends - if you're talking about a side wall, then no, if you're talking about the wall behind your mix position, then yes. you could have problems both due to short reflection times off the back wall, and asymmetrical response due to the side wall being closer to one side than the other. the front-back problem can be solved with bass trapping and diffusion - depending on the amount of space available. side-to-side is tougher because amplitude changes is different than time delays so you either need to increase absorption/diffusion on the sides or find some way to balance the boundaries on either side of the mix position.
Click to expand...

well, i'm centered on the side-to-side dimension. it's the front-to-back that's unbalanced. right now i'm planning to put bass traps behind the mix position in a vertical configuration so that i'll have 2 traps standing up and angled in on each other so that the vertex of the "v" where they meet will be centered behind the mixing desk.

then, above those i'll have a standard horizontal bass trap at the wall-to-celing corner. does this sound like a good plan? if so, should i have the vertex pointing at me or away from me? and what would work well for diffusion behind the traps? i was thinking of zig-zagging some thin wood strips vertically at (somewhat) random depths.

also, since posting the pics i mounted a 2" panel on the front wall (directly beneath the bass trap above the monitors) with the 4' dimension running horizontally. so far so good?

thanks for all the input guys! :)
 
if its the same type of absorbers you've made before, then i don't think its too much of a concern pointing in or out (the V). as far as diffusion - scattering - you'd generally put that in front of the traps so the frequencies not diffused/scattered will be absorbed. you could run vertical slats or wood rods over the face of them to scatter and reflect.

 
Hey gullfo. Nice rendering.:) I'm wondering though. Diffusion in such a small room? Especially on the short axis which is only 9'. Give or take a few inchs, I bet its less than 6' from the engineering position to the "rear" wall. Add the depth of ANY type diffuser that could do ANYTHING, and I submit you are well in the LOBING ZONE(if QRDs are used). Besides, I seriously doubt the human ear could detect any so called "diffusion" as the time delays would be so short, the human ear couldn't discern the difference. ie....within .2ms

Let me put it this way. Read what Everest defines "diffusion" as. ie..decays.
Of course, my disclaimer is in full force here.;):D

fitZ
 
btw, lately I've seen a reversal in a certain "studio design school of thought", where by SPECULAR reflection is ...ahem...desirable. go figure:rolleyes::D
 
Rick - its less "diffusion" and more like "scattering"... in a small room, where the listening proximity is close, diffusion wouldn't be my first choice. that said, the dead room thing is also not good (imho) so some reflections (preferably with appropriate time domains, spectral content, and levels) are good especially in surround or mastering environments.
 
hey! ethan AND rick showed up on my thread! i'm quite honored! :)

well, the diffusion isn't going to work out anyway due to space issues. and rick, you're right--those bass traps on the rear wall are indeed less than 6' away from mix position.

in fact, it's turned out that i'm not going to be able to do my v-shape either, but i am going to pretty much cover the upper two thirds of that rear wall with bass traps, which is better than nothing. :o

i never thought it could happen in that tiny hard-walled room, but it is quickly approaching "dead." believe me, this is far preferable to what i was dealing with before. i had major ring and flutter echo, and the overtones from the drums were just awful. everything is far more punchy now, and i haven't mixed anything yet, but i have listened to some stuff through the monitors and for the first time i was able to listen for more than 5 minutes without ear fatigue from all the hazy mud that used to assault me.

my next purchase will probably be a decent reverb unit, which i needed at least for the snare anyway. i realize natural verb would be ideal, but hey--so would cathedral celings! :D

thanks again everyone, this is really shaping up to be a huge improvement!
 
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