please help a mic mod newb.....

[zoso59brst]

Okay, a have a Nady 1050 (first issue) that I picked up for $25... It sounds lame at best, but seems like a good template. First, let me say that I have already been here:

http://www.prodigy-pro.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=633&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

as well as many other threads on the same.

Here is my problem.... now pretend for a moment that I barely understand what a cathode follower is and an anode sounds to me more like some sort of bad news from your physician rather than "an electrode through which (positive) electric current flows into a polarized electrical device."

If someone could be sweet enough to speak to me like a very small child and give me a couple pointers in terms of "change c8 to something like "X" which is not a piece of crap", you be doing a great service to my overloaded brain.

On another note, I don't want anyone to think that I am just too lazy to learn this stuff on my own... I am in the process of building my first ribbon (I know thats a lot less involved) and I have been reading just about every bit of info on mic mods and diy I can get my hands on... my basic electronics book makes me want to destroy small woodland creatures, but I am trekking through it none the less (as little as it may be sinking in...) ...what I'm trying to say is that perhaps using this as a hands on learning experience will do wonders for my understanding of this science.

So, if you fine folks, in your infinite sexiness, could help a brother out I would really appreciate it.

thank you very much for any of your valuable time you can dedicate
-Pete

 

[mshilarious]

Here is my problem.... now pretend for a moment that I barely understand what a cathode follower is and an anode sounds to me more like some sort of bad news from your physician rather than "an electrode through which (positive) electric current flows into a polarized electrical device."

Anode is a more technical term for the tube plate. Cathode follower is a circuit configuration where the audio path output goes from the cathode (rather than the anode, or plate). The typical characteristic of a cathode follower is lots of current gain; the plate will give you voltage gain but much less current gain. Either is often followed with a transformer, but the type of transformer will be very different depending on whether it is attached to the plate or cathode.

Anyway, tubes work by heating the cathode (usually indirectly, but not always, with a heater filament). The cathode gets hot and electrons boil off and float around. When you put positive voltage on the plate, the electrons fly towards it in great quantities.

Now, that is just a diode, which is a technical word meaning "two odes" Anode and cathode in this case. To make an amplification device, you need a third part, the grid. The grid controls the flow of electrons to the plate, causing the signal on the grid to be amplified. That's a triode. There are many other tube types that add more grids to fine-tune the tube's linearity. Pentodes are commonly used in mics.

 

[MartinKantola]

Pentodes are commonly used in mics.

But usually connected as triodes...

To say something about the topic itself: To "mod" a mike and make it better you should not only understand exactly how it works in detail, but also understand audio electronics BETTER than the guy who designed the thing in the first place. Sure, better quality parts usually help, but don't be fooled to think that there's nothing more to it.

Speaking from my own experience, been learning about audio electronic circuits and especially microphones for the last 25 years, and I think I'm slowly getting somewhere. Seriously.

If you are nuts enough about microphones, you will not be able to stop yourself picking up more and more pieces of knowledge as you go along. To end with a bit of positive thinking, go ahead and try some small changes in the mike you think will improve the sound. If you can hear a difference and don't electrocute yourself you've gotten somewhere. If not, well...

Martin

 

[zoso59brst]

thanks guys- my electronics knowledge thus far is "gear repair guy"... when an amp or rhodes or what have you craps out in the studio, I can usually spot whats wrong and fix it up... I am also a guitar tech, so I have done my share of wiring there... but circuit design and understanding how components interact still completely blows my mind

 

[zoso59brst]

ok, how bout this....

I understand that c9 and c10 are acting as a low pass... by changing the values of these can I therefor get more low end and less tin can??? ...without blowing anything up at least? Am I in the right frame of thinking anyway?

 

[mshilarious]

ok, how bout this....

I understand that c9 and c10 are acting as a low pass... by changing the values of these can I therefor get more low end and less tin can??? ...without blowing anything up at least? Am I in the right frame of thinking anyway?

I am probably being daft, but could you post a link to the schematic? Cause I only saw up to C8 in the schemo in that thread But I am tired, so maybe I just missed it . . .

After reading that thread, I can see why you have difficulty knowing what do that. That sort of "secrecy" about 60 year old microphone technology is really unfortunate. None of this stuff is patentable, so the only way to make money is to keep a secret, but what are you gonna do, epoxy the whole mic board? Ridiculous. I don't even think most of them build mics for a living. Why be secretive about a hobby?

Whatever . . .

 

[zoso59brst]

took another look and actually found another thread on this...
http://studioforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1526095781/m/2111089522/p/1

Apparently, C9/C10 are completely removed and green/black from the cable connector are grounded out.... and so in theory opening up the low end (if I am understanding it properly)

There is another schematic on the studioforums thread which is already showing these removed from the circuit...
http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/craigorris74/a460schemCFremoved.JPG

quote from studioforums:
"Remove Cathodeins 6,7,8 are removed from where ever they are wired to. Then they are tied/shorted to eachother, then they are sent to what ever convenient ground you can send them to.

Remove R8.

Connect C8 to where Pin 1 of the tube and R2 meet."


Okay, I can do that.... why do I want to???? How does my mic benefit from removing the cathode follower? (Sorry I'm so needy, just thirsty for knowledge)

And unfortunately, I know people who epoxy entire boards...... lame.

thanks again for all the help and input

 

[dgatwood]

ok, how bout this....

I understand that c9 and c10 are acting as a low pass... by changing the values of these can I therefor get more low end and less tin can??? ...without blowing anything up at least? Am I in the right frame of thinking anyway?

If it is sounding brittle, the first thing to do is probably replace every electrolytic or ceramic cap in the signal path with a poly or film cap. If that doesn't help, the next step is usually replacing or redesigning the capsule....

Changing follower types will change the sound, sure, but I wouldn't expect it to help with harshness. That said, it does sound like there might be some high pass in the circuit going on, in which case getting rid of that would bring back the bottom. Often though, a lack of bass is caused by the capsule itself, like in the case of some of the Chinese SDCs. In that case, you're probably better off replacing the capsule rather than trying to add a low pass to bring down the mids and highs. YMMV, of course.

BTW, how did you know I'm sexy?

 

[PhilGood]

by changing the values of these can I therefor get more low end and less tin can???

I keep coming back to this! Does it really sound like a "tin can"? If so, that may mean something else is wrong, like a bad tube or a bad capsule. The 1050 has never had a "tin can" sound as far as I remember. Scooped, but not "tin can".

Mind if we hear samples before continuing?

 

[craigmorris74]

I think C9 and C10 are for RF rejection, not a low pass.

The size of C8, and the presence or absence of C6 and C7 affect the low end alot.

 

[zoso59brst]

I keep coming back to this! Does it really sound like a "tin can"? If so, that may mean something else is wrong, like a bad tube or a bad capsule. The 1050 has never had a "tin can" sound as far as I remember. Scooped, but not "tin can".

Mind if we hear samples before continuing?

Maybe "tin can" was the wrong adjective... but its not showing any signs of tube failure that I've noticed.. I think I've got an NOS Mullard hanging around that I can throw in there.

The only track I can get you right now using this mic is here...
http://www.myspace.com/andnowthemainevent

(this mic is used on the left side of the kit/mix...) also, this is a working copy- so the mix is kinda garbage at this point (as well as some of my guitars ...sorry)
This track may or may not give you any idea of what this mic is doing. When I can back to our studio in the next couple days I can get a solo track on the 1050. It is setup pretty close to the floor tom, and is capturing much less than I had anticipated..

-craigmorris74, thanks for the help! I'll check it out when I get home from work


-Pete

 

[Gus]

early 1050s have soldered in tubes. With the stock transformer you might want to keep the CF part.

 

[zoso59brst]

early 1050s have soldered in tubes. With the stock transformer you might want to keep the CF part.

Yeah, soldered in tube is a pain in the neck... trafo can't handle the full on tube load I guess?

thanks!

 

[mshilarious]

Yeah, soldered in tube is a pain in the neck... trafo can't handle the full on tube load I guess?

thanks!

The opposite; the transformer primary impedance is probably too low for the tube plate.

 

[zoso59brst]

The opposite; the transformer primary impedance is probably too low for the tube plate.

got it. Not trying to suck up, but thank you all again for your help... I feel like I'm taking a lot away from this as the pieces come together