muttley600
Banned
To save you the effort of reading everything. And I'll wager that we've finished more guitars and other instruments than you've played, but what the fuck would we know.
F
Fusioninspace
New member
I forgot to mention that I always use an open flamed propane heater, in a non ventiated closed room while I'm spraying nitro....it bakes the paint on real good.
I'm sort of the same way. I like to sit down and light up a smoke in the middle of spraying to admire my work.
Light
New member
Amazing how many people don't think that counts for anything.
No. Spend as much time as you need with each grit to get the surface as perfect as possible with each grit. First, it makes the subsequent grits go MUCH easier and faster, and second it will make your finish (any finish, even solid colors) look infinitely better. It also makes the finish lay on and flow out much better, and makes sanding between coats much easier. It's not enough to just sand with each grit - you have to sand RIGHT.
You must sand with the grain, and if the grain curves, your sanding stroke must curve. You need to go down hill on slopes. You need to sand until you can't see the scratches from the grit your using (I know that sounds weird, but it's true). If you do it right, you get the same open looking grain all the guys who talk about scraping get, but it will be far smoother, and will look much better. The single biggest problem with most finish work (by amateurs and professionals alike) is laziness while sanding. If you think it's good enough, keep working until it's perfect. PARTICULARLY with the 150 and 220 grits. If you do it right, it will look better after 220 than if you do a horse shit job up to 400 or 600 or some such shit.
For instance, I was sanding a finish on a slab body tonight (flat on both sides, except for the belly cut), and even with my pneumatic random orbit sander (which make the job MUCH faster) it still took me 40-45 minutes to get everything sanded. And it only went that fast because when I was doing my finish prep on it, I spent that much time with every grit between 100 and 220. On the whole, I probably spend more time sanding than all the rest of the woodwork on a guitar. I have a huge number of major league time saving devices for sanding, and that is still the case. (Of course, I also have a lot of labor saving devices and jigs to make the rest of the wood working go faster too, but still.) For sanding wood, use garnet papers, take your time, and GET IT RIGHT. In the end, it makes the job both easier and better.
There is an old woodworkers tall about this kind of thing.
An apprentice to one of the great woodworkers of the 19th century was set to work by his master making a piece for a cabinet.
After a while, the apprentice brings the piece to his master, and says he is done. Without even looking up from his bench, the master asks, "well, how is it."
The apprentice answers, "it is good enough." Without even looking, the master tells him to try again.
Working much harder this time, the apprentice comes back again, and again the master asks, "well, how is it."
"It's good enough this time."
"Try again."
Frustrated by this, the apprentice takes as much time as he can, and does the best possible work. He brings it to his master and says, "Here, this one is perfect!"
"Well," sighs the master, "I guess that's good enough."
There is no such thing as good enough, only right or not right. Do it right.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Light
New member
I'm sort of the same way. I like to sit down and light up a smoke in the middle of spraying to admire my work.
It doesn't take anything nearly that overt to do it. It can be something as simple as the fan you use to exhaust the finish (which can do it very easily), or a spark in the lighting.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Light
New member
No, it really can't. I've used the Reranch stuff for color on a few occasions, and I can tell you it doesn't even come close to using a real gun which is clean and well maintained (now if I can just get anyone else in the shop to clean the damn things ... I'm getting a little sick of having to clean every gun both before AND after I use it). They are a major PITA, and they don't spray anything like as nice of a finish.
Also, getting the colors right is usually really easy, if you have a sample to work off of. Especially the metallics - all you do is buy the right Bronzing powder, and your set. Matching metallics is one of the easiest things in the world. Pastels are pretty easy too, because they are pretty easy to adjust. Pastels can be a real pain to touch up though, and you better clean your spray booth top to bottom, inside and out, every single nook and cranny before you try to spray a pastel like Sea Foam Green or Shell pink - those fucking colors show every single tiny little speck of anything like it was a fucking beacon, and if your booth isn't spotless you will NEVER be able to get a clean coat of clear over it. And sunburst colors are easy because Stew Mac sells the dyes you need to get them perfect and ready to be mixed with whatever finish you are using (or for Gibson colors, you can do what I do, and buy them direct from Gibson, but you need to be a warranty center for that).
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
muttley600
Banned
Add to that that the nitro rattle can stuff applied in a make ship booth without proper humidity and temp control is far more likely to craze , lift etc.
The Reraunch colours are close but to get anything but a solid colour right you need to take into account the colour of you base timber and also how it will mellow with age. A lot of those brand colours have aged already so they are not "right" to begin with.
muttley600
Banned
Amen to all that. I have a slightly different basic approach buy that is just what I've come to over the years..
Do you use garnet? Interesting. I still do on occasion and for the tighter smaller hard to get to places, but have moved to Abralon pads now they do fantastic job and last for ages.
I also do a lot of my prep with cabinet scrapers. I was taught that way and remember the day over 30 years ago when I was finally shown the right way to get a razor sharp burr. A real epiphany for me.
I do do a lot of sanding though and I'd secound everyting you've said. The more time sanding and sanding CORRECTLY will improve the finish massively, it will allow you to put on less and make the horribly job of flatting and cutting out much quicker.
If you sand through the grades right, with me on a real fine job thats scraper, 240, 400, 600, 1000, 2000, 40000, raising the grain between grades 240 and 600 with a damp cloth, the workpiece will already look like it has a finish on it. On darker woods you can see you reflection in it. Prep on guitar work is often what separates the rest from the pro's. I'll spend over a day on an instrument and I'm quick because I know what to look for and what each timber needs.
Light
New member
For hand sanding wood, nothing but (well, ebony or rosewood fingerboards get aluminum oxide for everything above 220). We like the way the grit breaks and becomes finer as you go. Then there is the stearate coated aluminum oxide for sanding between finish coats. Mostly just 320 with that stuff. And we use the 3M gold stuff for the Dynabrades (by the by, if you don't have a good pneumatic random orbit yet, get one - though I assume you do).
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
muttley600
Banned
I use the Abralon pads for just that reason. I was skeptical at first when someone flagged them for me, but they do work and they get finer as they get older. They last ages as well. I use garnet as well over the oxides.
I have a bunch of random orbitals. The ones I use the most are on my airline. The electric ones don't seem to last as long or remain smooth for some reason. You know what it's like when your using one on the way out. It damn near numbs your arm after a while.
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donkeystyle
New member
You know what it's like when your using one on the way out. It damn near numbs your arm after a while.
That's nothing. I work for a commercial/industrial paint contractor and we paint a lot of floors. Even in brand new condition a bunch of our tools cause you bodily harm.
We have these things called hand scarifiers. They are one of the most dangerous tools I have ever seen. Im surprised that osha or whatever agency tests them for safety hasn't put a stop to the manufacture of these things. After like 15 minutes of using these things both your arms genuinely hurt...... not a little bit....... it hurts bad. I used one for about 30 to 45 minutes one time. By the end of it, the muscles in my hands were spasming and I literally couldn't keep them wrapped around the handles. They don't give any signs that they're going to break and then all of a sudden the machine jumps, you're knuckle is busted open and you're trying to unlock the trigger before you get any more hurt.
I know the story is off topic, but muttley's statement reminded me of it.
jimistone
long standing member
:
That reminds me of the time I was wearing an unbuttonedd shirt while using a wire brush bit on a drill.
drill caught my shirt tail...I hate when that happens.
Locked triggers are not good in that situation.
That reminds me of the time I was wearing an unbuttonedd shirt while using a wire brush bit on a drill.
drill caught my shirt tail...I hate when that happens.
Locked triggers are not good in that situation.