Apogee preamp improvement.

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wonna1

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Hi All,

Apple iMac (Leopard) Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz
Apogee Duet
Cubase 4.0
Sibelius 5.0
Kontakt 2.0
Guitar Rig 2.0
KRK V6 Series 2

I have just purchased an Apogee Duet.

The convertors blow your mind for the price of the unit but the preamps are a little weak.

Can anyone tell me at what price/make of preamp I would notice an improvement over the Apogee preamps?

I prefer a good clear clean sound not too warm.

My budget would be around $1200.00 and I would prefer to buy new.

Thank you for your help.

Kindest regards,

Martin.
 
Do you need single channel or two channels?

You can get a single channel John Hardy M1 for around a thousand.

For two channel units you might look at the following. I haven't used them all, but I'm just putting down some possibilities in your range.

Under $1,000:
DAV Electronics BG-1 (own and love this preamp).
Chameleon Labs 7622
FMR RNP

It's kind of slim pickins' right around $1,200 for two channels. If you can go up to $1,500-1,750 for two channels then you get into the range of some better stuff like:

Neve Portico 5012
A-Designs Pacifica (maybe if you get a good deal)
Speck Electronics MicPre 5.0 (two of these)
Sebatron VMP-2000eVU
 
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Hi,

Thank you for the reply.

A single channel preamp would be fine.

What are the characteristics of the John Hardy?

Thanks.
 
Im sure the Neve Portico is a nice unit, but what a pain in the ass from a rack mounting prespective :rolleyes:
 
Im sure the Neve Portico is a nice unit, but what a pain in the ass from a rack mounting prespective :rolleyes:

All you need to do is buy their 1/2 space rack adapter. I have some half rack units and it's not as much of a pain as it might seem (although it can be if they don't have special rack adapters).
 
Hi,

Thank you for the reply.

A single channel preamp would be fine.

What are the characteristics of the John Hardy?

Thanks.

Well, you mentioned "good clear clean". So the Hardy is one that sprung immediately to mind. There are other units like that, but they come in a minimum of a two channel format. For example, the Grace 201 or Millenia HV-3C.
 
Well, you mentioned "good clear clean". So the Hardy is one that sprung immediately to mind. There are other units like that, but they come in a minimum of a two channel format. For example, the Grace 201 or Millenia HV-3C.

Hey SonicAlbert,

Any thoughts/experience/opinions on the TOFT ATC-2? :confused:
 
Well, you mentioned "good clear clean". So the Hardy is one that sprung immediately to mind. There are other units like that, but they come in a minimum of a two channel format. For example, the Grace 201 or Millenia HV-3C.

How about the TD-1. I've always been curious about that piece--two topologies. Ever hear it?
 
I've heard the TD-1. Sounded amazing as a matter of fact. However, both units my friend tried were brand new and defective. He bought one (that's the one I heard) and then brought it back to exchange but the second one had the same problem. He was brokenhearted because it sounded so good, but there was no way he could use it due to the glaring defect.

He ended up with a TAB Funkenwerk thingy instead, which also sounds great (maybe not *quite* as great, but it works). Good luck getting one though.

The other unit he owns and loves is one I recommended to him, the DITTO DI box from Groove Tubes. As a DI box it really blows away much more expensive units, we did a bunch of blind listening tests against other DI's and DI/preamps (the Millenia was one of the few that held up to it). GT now makes a DI/preamp called the "Brick", which I haven't heard but is based on the DITTO so it has definite possibilities. GT also makes the SUPre which I mentioned earlier. GT gets overlooked a lot, and they make some good stuff. But GT preamps probably don't have the sound you are looking for.

I don't know the Toft ATC-2. There's a lot of stuff on that for $1,000--two channels of preamps, eqs, and compressors. If I'm looking for a single channel preamp for $1,200 I'd much rather go for the gold and get the very best preamp money can buy for that, without all the features. I want all the money in the sound, not the features.

Back to the TD-1. It did sound wonderful. You would need to buy it from a place that would be cool with you returning it, just in case. Just for the record, Millenia was no help to my friend who was sold faulty TD-1's that had exactly the same issue--and they wouldn't even admit there was a problem. You'd press a button to change to a certain setting and it was like you were sending AC current right out the audio lines. Deafening, and painfully so. A *serious* problem that was repeatable and rendered the unit unusable. The buttons also felt a little fragile, and there were some minor fit and finish issues. For the money you demand a high standard. That may have been an early production run unit, and maybe they've worked the kinks out by now. Millenia certainly has an audiophile type reputation, so if the TD-1 interests you I say at least check it out.
 
Thanks for the info Sonic Albert. Too bad about the problems with the TD-1 and Millenia.
 
I don't know the Toft ATC-2. There's a lot of stuff on that for $1,000--two channels of preamps, eqs, and compressors. If I'm looking for a single channel preamp for $1,200 I'd much rather go for the gold and get the very best preamp money can buy for that, without all the features. I want all the money in the sound, not the features.

Good advice! Thanx SonicAlbert.
 
I own a pair of TD-1s. Keep in mind that the TD-1 is intended to be the ultimate DI box. The twin topology feature (SS or tube) only applies to the DI -- not to the mic pre. The single channel mic pre is the standard Millennia pre and was originally an option, but became a standard feature. It is SS only, not tube. The TD-1 also has 2 channels of Millennia EQ (very nice) and can also be used to reamp your guitars. I haven't had any problems with mine. Used ones go for $1100-1200 or so. They are pretty festive with all the lights and buttons. They work pretty well as a swiss army knife audio box.

+1 on the Ditto. I own a couple of those too. I think they have become a little known bargain as the bottom dropped out of the price when the Brick was released and the Ditto was discontinued. Used ones go for @$150 or so which is about the price of a used Radial JDI.

DAV, Grace, Hardy, Buzz Audio and Millennia are probably your best choices for clean sound. DAV is probably the bargain of the bunch.
 
Hi,

Thank you for your excellent advice Sonic Albert!

Do you have any opinions about the Avalon M5?

I also like the DAV Electronics BG1, are there any other opinions about it - seems too good to be true for the price!

I am researching all options at the moment, the Neve Portico looks good.

Thanks, Martin.
 
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I don't know the Avalon M5. Their DI box was one that we did the blind shootout on, and the GT DITTO pretty much blew it away, at least to our ears. I'm a big fan of Avalon gear though, I have their 2044 compressor and it's wonderful. I'd love to have their 2055 eq, but it's so expensive...

I suspect the problem with the TD-1 was that it was an early production model, as this was before the preamp was standard equipment. It definitely sounded great, but there was something wrong inside it. And it is more of a DI Swiss army knife kind of thing, as pohaku said. So keep it on the list but keep looking would be my approach.

You'll find a ton of opinions about the BG-1 here, and the most vehement ones from people that have never heard it!

My feeling is to always go up to or above the budget available. So if you've got $1,200, spend it all. Or even add to that budget to get into a couple channels of great preamps. There's a natural tendency to always think in terms of "saving some money" or "getting a great value for the money". But that can be a trap. Preamps are one of those things where money does really buy you quality. So don't skimp (but don't go broke either!).
 
mica

How about the Grace 101? That said, I have recently purchased a Duet and I was rather surprised at it's transparency.
 
I own an M5 which I'm about to trade away. It's a very clean pre. I liked it on vocals but I wasn't nuts about for recording acoustic guitar (which is why it's on the way out). Believe it or not, I think guitar tracks were sounding better through a Focusrite TwinTrak than through the M5.
 
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