FOETUS DREAMING – No instruments used on this track…DOES THIS WORK?

[dreamer7]

To all dreamers out there in cloud cuckoo land,
I'm wondering if people here find this to be an interesting idea that works well, or just a waste of time. Here's the background to it:

A few years ago I put together a short piece of sound-art for entry into the Big Art Challenge 2004 competition, run by UK's Channel 5 TV, for a new series. Then in 2005 I also sent it to Sonic Arts Network for possible inclusion on a compilation CD, but the project didn't go ahead as planned. So, I've put it on my page to give it a reason for being.

It's called Foetus Dreaming and at the time of its conception I was wondering if babies actually dream while still in the womb. If so, then sounds getting through from the world outside may influence those dreams.

No instruments are used (real or virtual) and all the found-sounds are recorded by mic onto a 4-track. I've purposely mixed and mastered it so that each sound isn't too obvious, and also to lend it a cavernous quality. Has to be heard on headphones really, not only to get into the feeling but also to be able to pick out the very subtle montage of sounds. It's only 2 mins 38 secs long, so you might want to have a bit of fun trying to identify each sound used to build the whole montage.
Here's the direct link:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=662928&songID=6185524

Hope you find it stimulating or interesting in some way!
Thoughts anyone? (be as honest as you want!)
dreamer7
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/gardenofsurrealdreams
THE ETERNAL LIGHT OF WILL – my very humble tribute to Bill Nelson. For your ears only, on Soundclick now.

 

[ido1957]

Interesting - I think it's very creative and original project.

 

[dreamer7]

Thanks for listening and remarking Ido,
That's 1 positive so far and feeling good. I wonder what others will make of it?
dreamer7

 

[Greg_L]

What am I supposed to "get" out of this?

 

[true-eurt]

Well the opening sound reminds me of a boat motor running under water...I can hear a lead guitar being played over this track...yah...really cool backing...it also reminds me of an everglade boat...

 

[true-eurt]

What am I supposed to "get" out of this?

A good night's sleep in the womb...

 

[dreamer7]

What am I supposed to "get" out of this?

Anything you want Greg (or nothing at all if that's the feeling). I didn't think this would be your sort of thing, so I really appreciate the fact that you've played it and given it a chance anyway. I wasn't actually going to put it up for views, but I'm genuinely fascinated by how differently people hear the same thing, so I thought it was well worth asking.
Thanks for the reply.

Well the opening sound reminds me of a boat motor running under water...I can hear a lead guitar being played over this track...yah...really cool backing...it also reminds me of an everglade boat...

Cheers for your thoughts true-eurt. Well, you're definitely right in one way, as there is running water from various sources layered into this and various small motors (not boat motors though), along with other sounds, and it's very interesting to me that you had a particular image of a watery place. Not a bad idea about playing something over the top as well, but the idea with this one was to leave out instruments (or samplers and synths) completely, as an experiment and a challenge. I may do it one day though.
You've well and truly got into the spirit of it – cheers man.

Any other honest opinions from out there somewhere?
Here's the direct link again:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...songID=6185524

(before I give the game away and reveal the sources of the sounds!)
dreamer7
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/gardenofsurrealdreams
THE ETERNAL LIGHT OF WILL – my very humble tribute to Bill Nelson. For your ears only, on Soundclick now.

 

[Greg_L]

Anything you want Greg (or nothing at all if that's the feeling). I didn't think this would be your sort of thing, so I really appreciate the fact that you've played it and given it a chance anyway. I wasn't actually going to put it up for views, but I'm genuinely fascinated by how differently people hear the same thing, so I thought it was well worth asking.
Thanks for the reply.

.

I've heard stuff like this before and been round and round with the "artists" about it. I just don't get it. It's just sound/noise. There's nothing there. Maybe I'm too close-minded or yall are too pretentious. I don't know. I don't hate it, I just don't see what the point is.

 

[propman]

Wow, very nice. I loved this. Very good. I listned to this twice, once with eyes closed, and I got chills. I heara truck in there, and I think an airplane, some water boiling, maybe birds or an egg frying? Very creative. I liked it.

 

[dreamer7]

I've heard stuff like this before and been round and round with the "artists" about it. I just don't get it. It's just sound/noise. There's nothing there. Maybe I'm too close-minded or yall are too pretentious. I don't know. I don't hate it, I just don't see what the point is.

Well, you're open-minded enough to listen to it in the first place Greg.
Some people wouldn't even do that, but it's a good thing that a lot of us have quite different tastes, otherwise we'd all be listening to the same ol' stuff (and that would be pretty boring after a while!). I had the fun of creating this, so I'm coming from a different angle anyway. I'm finding it fascinating that some folks here are really getting into this track and seeing their own images. In a way, I think this sort of work is actually for that type of thing – y'know, almost meditative.

Maybe if you heard more of this sort of work, over time you might be surprised and find yourself quite liking the odd track here and there, for whatever reason. I imagine that you might be able to accept more experimental stuff if it was an intro to a longer piece that gradually introduced instruments and became much more musical as it went on – a short intro for a long Kiss track perhaps, although I don't know if that'd be something they're ever likely to get up to! Not likely perhaps, but you never know
dreamer7

Wow, very nice. I loved this. Very good. I listned to this twice, once with eyes closed, and I got chills. I heara truck in there, and I think an airplane, some water boiling, maybe birds or an egg frying? Very creative. I liked it.

Great that you've come up with your own images there propman.
Interesting you got chills too, as I did myself once when I listened back to it on headphones. Other times I've had different feelings. All depends on our mood at the time I suppose. The one sound you got right was the water boiling. The other sounds you mention are definitely not in there, but that is what is making this even more fascinating for me, to hear what others make of it all.

Thanks again to you two for listening and remarking.
dreamer7
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/gardenofsurrealdreams
THE ETERNAL LIGHT OF WILL – my very humble tribute to Bill Nelson. For your ears only, on Soundclick now.

 

[MadAudio]

The overall water effect is too dominating and kills the nuances of the other sounds. It makes the whole soundscape suffer as a result. And if it sounds like that on decent monitors, I really don't want to hear it through headphones.

 

[mikeyhasnobones]

no no this is cool! a little while ago i came to realization about noise music in that it's dynamics are EXACTLY the same as so called "real music" just with different sounds. definitely a cool idea and keep pushing it!
mikey

 

[dreamer7]

The overall water effect is too dominating and kills the nuances of the other sounds. It makes the whole soundscape suffer as a result. And if it sounds like that on decent monitors, I really don't want to hear it through headphones.

Cheers for your input MadAudio. It's a valid point and I did change the mix a few times. At first, all the sounds were more distinct but that just made it easier to suss out what the sounds were, which wasn't what I wanted. After trying different things, I increased the cavernous quality to quite an extreme and then it just seemed more 'right' for the actual idea of hearing from inside a womb. Obviously, I don't really know what that would be like, but I'm sure everything would be mingled and sort of muffled, without anything really jumping out. I suppose we'll never know. At the moment I don't have good monitors, but do have excellent headphones, so all my mixing is done using those. I know that isn't quite the accepted way, but until I can afford new very good quality monitors, the headphones are in full use. This track sounds good on my headphones anyway.
dreamer7

no no this is cool! a little while ago i came to realization about noise music in that it's dynamics are EXACTLY the same as so called "real music" just with different sounds. definitely a cool idea and keep pushing it!
mikey

mikey, thanks for coming to the rescue. A good 'realization' you've pointed out for us. It also occurs to me that if my track was done using a synth, then some people would find it easier to deal with (apart from those who don't like synth music!). There are plenty of ambient synth tracks that are very long and don't actually change much from start to finish and they are intended to be that way. Indeed this has become a whole genre in itself and some of it is amazing (while some is boring!). Of course, I realize that everything has to stand on it's own, but it's all valid in its own way, I think. It's all down to the listener at the end of the day.
Yep, I'll definitely keep pushing it on occasions (among other, more musical, outings) as I like the freedom and variety it gives.
dreamer7
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/gardenofsurrealdreams
THE ETERNAL LIGHT OF WILL – my very humble tribute to Bill Nelson. For your ears only, on Soundclick now.

 

[chrisharris]

Well, I usually try to limit my comments to sonic stuff...you know, turn the snare up, etc.

Soooo...I couldn't hear the snare at all...or the kick or the bass or the guitars or the banjo or the backup vocals...or the lead vocal or the the sitar...

Is a Foetus anything like a Fetus?

 

[danny.guitar]

Not something I'd listen to in my car but sounds cool...

But it's also more or less the same thing the whole time. I have a friend who makes weird stuff like this but he puts a few instruments in there.

Add some bells, keyboard, or something to it...cause right now it's just noise with a bunch of reverb on it.

 

[NYMorningstar]

I'm just listening on headphones but it sounds good. It's the kind of thing you'd here in a video game like Everquest or something similar.

 

[Chili]

Okay, I'll bite. I like the idea of experimenting like this, although I probably wouldn't try it myself. I'm kind of with Greg L, where I just don't get it.

To me, the cavernous effect is overbearing and completely squashes everything else. Which is kind of what you were going for... I guess. But I think with a title like Foetus Dreaming, there would be a great story that could be told. The cavernous water effect takes away any other element and leaves the listener expecting more.

I'm sure fetuses can dream in the third trimester. Their brains are well developed by then. We know our daughter was dreaming soon after she was born, so it's not a far stretch to think she was dreaming right before she was born.

Good ideas,
Cheers.

 

[dreamer7]

Well, I usually try to limit my comments to sonic stuff...you know, turn the snare up, etc.

Soooo...I couldn't hear the snare at all...or the kick or the bass or the guitars or the banjo or the backup vocals...or the lead vocal or the the sitar...

Is a Foetus anything like a Fetus?

Hi Chris. Er yep, there's definitely nothing like that in there . Foetus (possibly the English way?) is just another way to spell Fetus.

Not something I'd listen to in my car but sounds cool...

But it's also more or less the same thing the whole time. I have a friend who makes weird stuff like this but he puts a few instruments in there.

Add some bells, keyboard, or something to it...cause right now it's just noise with a bunch of reverb on it.

Hi Danny. I have done other soundscapes using instruments, but for this I wanted to experiment and only use sounds that I could record without resorting to actually playing anything. A sort of challenge I suppose and because of the theme, it just seemed the right way to do it. Also, I didn't really want anything to jump out too much, hence the sort of ambient feel to it.

I'm just listening on headphones but it sounds good. It's the kind of thing you'd here in a video game like Everquest or something similar.

Hi Morningstar. Thanks for listening. Maybe it will end up in a video game one day. Stranger things have happened!

Okay, I'll bite. I like the idea of experimenting like this, although I probably wouldn't try it myself. I'm kind of with Greg L, where I just don't get it.

To me, the cavernous effect is overbearing and completely squashes everything else. Which is kind of what you were going for... I guess. But I think with a title like Foetus Dreaming, there would be a great story that could be told. The cavernous water effect takes away any other element and leaves the listener expecting more.

I'm sure fetuses can dream in the third trimester. Their brains are well developed by then. We know our daughter was dreaming soon after she was born, so it's not a far stretch to think she was dreaming right before she was born.

Good ideas,
Cheers.

Hi Chili. Nice story about your daughter and maybe a good insight into what I was wondering about. I wish I knew how it would be in reality – it's absolutely fascinating to think that babies may actually dream before they're born. I understand what you mean about the cavernous effect, but it just felt right when I heard it like this after trying various things. I may try a new mix at some point to bring out the other sounds more and see how it feels. It was quite difficult to choose which sounds to include and which to exclude to put over my idea and in the end I decided to use sounds from a particular source area for simplicity. I may one day do a longer version using more sound sources from a much wider variety of areas, but I wanted to keep this particular piece fairly short for now, so that people wouldn't think it was just going on for far too long.

Thanks for all the comments guys,
dreamer7
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.soundclick.com/gardenofsurrealdreams
THE ETERNAL LIGHT OF WILL – my very humble tribute to Bill Nelson. For your ears only, on Soundclick now.