Gibson/Epiphone lies

  • Thread starter Thread starter jmorris
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IloveJesus said:
A couple weeks ago I played a Mexi-made Telecaster, and it played so well. Perfect. It was about 700 bucks. Then I played an American-made telecaster that was almost twice the price. Played like crap. Now, it could have been the setup, or it could be that I'm a crappy guitar player (which is true), but I know which I would have wanted.

That said, there is only ONE reason companies have their products made overseas or in Mexico: They don't want to pay a living wage.


The people who make those import guitars have a standard of living that makes a trailer park look luxurious. We all know and support this each time we buy Chinese crap.
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Have you been to those countries? Have you seen the working conditions? Have you seen the living conditions? Have you experienced the quality of life in Japan, Korea, Indonesia. Have you spoke to those workers? Have you any idea what you are talking about?
 
IloveJesus said:
A couple weeks ago I played a Mexi-made Telecaster, and it played so well. Perfect. It was about 700 bucks. Then I played an American-made telecaster that was almost twice the price. Played like crap. Now, it could have been the setup, or it could be that I'm a crappy guitar player (which is true), but I know which I would have wanted.

That said, there is only ONE reason companies have their products made overseas or in Mexico: They don't want to pay a living wage.


The people who make those import guitars have a standard of living that makes a trailer park look luxurious. We all know and support this each time we buy Chinese crap.
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Very good point. The other reason we ship crap to Jap and China to be "built" is they have almost no law for disposal of Hazmat items. They just dump stuff in the waters and the earth. That is a fact! So as much as we want to think we are the "green" country, we are in fact supporting counties like Korea,China,Japan which polute more than we could even think of. So put back on your Mike Moore Tshirts!
 
Fake US Flag Stickers

hey here's one they can use for a US Flag sticker...
on their 99.99999999% made offshore job

GUITAR SOLD IN US!!

GUITAR CASE TOUCHED BY A US SHIPPING CLERK!!

GUITAR POLISHED BY AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT WHO WAS IN THE US!!

GUITAR FEELS KINDA LIKE A VINTAGE US CLASSIC!!

GUITAR TESTED OUT IN US GUITAR CENTER!!!

GUITAR SETUP IN US!!!

GUITAR POLISHED IN US!!!!

GUITAR OWNED BY US SUBSIDIARY OF PARENT COMPANY COPYRIGHT/PATENTED BY CONGLOMERATE CORPORATION ONCE KNOWN MANY YEARS AGO FOR MAKING FAMOUS GUITARS!!


next time I go to GuitarMArt I'm going to check this out...I want one of those little fake american flag stickers to put on my Hyundai.
 
jmorris said:
Um? In reality I'm right and your wrong..again
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The quality control at Gibson is the same as other big guitar makers the world over. Most of the final set up and inspection is and SHOULD be done at the store. I get a lot of work just doing that for the better stores. Gibson QA did hit a low around 10 years ago. It is a lot better these days. If your talking about standards of acceptable workmanship thats a different thing but they still do pretty well with that these days as well. I haven't really seen more poor quality Gibsons as opposed to other makes and I see quite a few of them during the course of my work. Could they do better? Yes probably but so could others.
 
jmorris said:
Very true but the quality control is what sucks bad!
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There are thousands of owners of guitars manufactured overseas that disagree with you.

It's apparent that you have an axe to grind. Consider your stance as having been stated.
 
jmorris said:
Very good point. The other reason we ship crap to Jap and China to be "built" is they have almost no law for disposal of Hazmat items. They just dump stuff in the waters and the earth. That is a fact! So as much as we want to think we are the "green" country, we are in fact supporting counties like Korea,China,Japan which polute more than we could even think of. So put back on your Mike Moore Tshirts!
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Examples please??

Neither the US or the UK where I live and work are blameless in that respect either. The reason that companies turn to the emerging economic nations has to do with the workforce and profits than it has to do with any environmental considerations. If you really think that the lifestyle and quality of life of your average Japanese or Korean worker is below that of a "trailer park" you really should get on a plane and take a look for yourself.
 
donkeystyle said:
I hate when people try to be overly P.C. and I as a half-mexican have no problem with jokes concerning race or enthnicity, but when there's obviously a strong underlying hate behind them I have to draw the line.
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Please just take your line somewhere else, Mr. Aggrieved Half-Mexican. This is a discussion about guitars, not a Rainbow Coalition bullshit-fest.



:D
 
muttley600 said:
The quality control at Gibson is the same as other big guitar makers the world over. Most of the final set up and inspection is and SHOULD be done at the store. I get a lot of work just doing that for the better stores. Gibson QA did hit a low around 10 years ago. It is a lot better these days. If your talking about standards of acceptable workmanship thats a different thing but they still do pretty well with that these days as well. I haven't really seen more poor quality Gibsons as opposed to other makes and I see quite a few of them during the course of my work. Could they do better? Yes probably but so could others.
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Mutt, I think we are begining to agree. That is what Im taling about when I mention quality control,it seems to be all over the place,I believe a lot looser overseas. Yes, the guitars( or whatever) made overseas are made to our companys specs...but are they really followed. Example, I have a relative that works for a big firm here. They openned a plant in China. Quality control there very bad but it ends up being cheaper for them to just replace items that come back "deffective" or "not made correctly" than to try to fix the issue at hand, bad quality control. In addition it was thought that many people dont even try to return deffective items these days, too much hassel. I have to say, Im one of those people its sad to say. I cant be bothered. Funny as you say the final setup on guitars should be done in the strore, with which I very much agree, but god, when was the last time you walked into a Guitar Center and tried to play a guitar. A lot of them are not even close to being setup. Now I agree with you but I find the stores are not vewry good at getting it done. I walked into my Guitar Cenetr last year, looking at a T.Murphy Les Paul. It was $6000.00. It had the worst rusty strings on it. The guy says " do you want to play it? Plug it in?" I go, "you got to be kidding! How can I tell how it sounds with old, and I mean old, rusty strings on it? " You;d think they would understamd that a nice setup guitar in real nice playable condition would sell better than one with buzzes and shitty rusty strings
 
As far as the concept of a truly "made in the USA" guitar, I love it, and try to support it as much as I can. But I really think the reality of it has changed drastically since the 50's and 60's........... Lets see, Asian workers don't make a bunch of money, but they are probably VERY glad to have the work and probably put their whole hearts into it while working on the line. While in the USA, there are a lot of distractions and dissatisfaction in the "working class" that might effect the final QC of the product.

Here is the most important factor. No matter where something is made, there are monsters and there are dogs. I have bought and sold some hi-$ vintage guits that frankly didnt play or sound better than a $120 Indonesian strat clone.

I deal with a buyer in New England who has millions of dollars in vintage American guitars. I have made tons of money selling to him over the years simply because he assigns too much value to the vintage/lineage/provenance of his stable. In no way is he going to lose money on the purchases, but he is a total tool thinking that because he paid $20K for a guitar it is any better playing/sounding than a MIM strat.
 
Flamin Lip said:
As far as the concept of a truly "made in the USA" guitar, I love it, and try to support it as much as I can. But I really think the reality of it has changed drastically since the 50's and 60's........... Lets see, Asian workers don't make a bunch of money, but they are probably VERY glad to have the work and probably put their whole hearts into it while working on the line. While in the USA, there are a lot of distractions and dissatisfaction in the "working class" that might effect the final QC of the product.

Here is the most important factor. No matter where something is made, there are monsters and there are dogs. I have bought and sold some hi-$ vintage guits that frankly didnt play or sound better than a $120 Indonesian strat clone.

I deal with a buyer in New England who has millions of dollars in vintage American guitars. I have made tons of money selling to him over the years simply because he assigns too much value to the vintage/lineage/provenance of his stable. In no way is he going to lose money on the purchases, but he is a total tool thinking that because he paid $20K for a guitar it is any better playing/sounding than a MIM strat.
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Now I have never beena guy that thinks "only the old vintage guitars are the best playing and best sounding." Mostly the oposite, a good usa les paul,in particular the reissues are for me, as good as an old 59 however. I draw the line when someone compares a mexico strat to a 64 strat. There is NO comparison.
 
Supercreep said:
Please just take your line somewhere else, Mr. Aggrieved Half-Mexican. This is a discussion about guitars, not a Rainbow Coalition bullshit-fest.



:D
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I can't tell for sure if this is supposed to be offensive or funny, but it definitely entertained me. apparently I gave you rep too recently to give you more.
 
jmorris said:
but you know, some people drive Kia's and think their great..
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I don't know anyone who have ever owned a Kia [or any other product of Hyundai--the parent company] and is looking to buy a second one.
:D
 
at least foreign cars don't put American stickers on them that try to insinuate they were built in the US when they weren't.

I think that was the point the OP made, maybe not?

I thought the LIE thing was meant to say, if you make the fhkng guitar in Korea state it and don't LIE about it....don't scam people by putting US flags on it.

in the age of fake relics, Fender tennis shoes and the like...it doesn't make any difference. as I posted before, I don't even believe the 1962 Stratocasters are real ones anymore...I'd have to see a DNA or something...

and who can be surprised with everyone and their aunt heloise dumping shit to sell in Guitar Center. its surely a trip.....How many guitars and chineese amps can a country absorb before they start puking?
 
jmorris said:
[/COLOR]
I draw the line when someone compares a mexico strat to a 64 strat. There is NO comparison.
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Too many absolute statements in this thread to have much validity. So here are a few more to muck it up!

I have played MIMs that sounded and played better than SOME Pre-CBS's

Vintage American guitars are friggin cool, and part of the tone comes from the wood I am getting while playing that great old wood.

There are some killer imports that would win a blind shootout vs. american guitboxes.

Thank you......... That is allllllllllllll!! :)
 
COOLCAT said:
at least foreign cars don't put American stickers on them that try to insinuate they were built in the US when they weren't.

I think that was the point the OP made, maybe not?

I thought the LIE thing was meant to say, if you make the fhkng guitar in Korea state it and don't LIE about it....don't scam people by putting US flags on it.
in the age of fake relics, Fender tennis shoes and the like...it doesn't make any difference. as I posted before, I don't even believe the 1962 Stratocasters are real ones anymore...I'd have to see a DNA or something...

and who can be surprised with everyone and their aunt heloise dumping shit to sell in Guitar Center. its surely a trip.....How many guitars and chineese amps can a country absorb before they start puking?
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Yes, exactly right and that WAS my point, you are correct.
 
Flamin Lip said:
Too many absolute statements in this thread to have much validity. So here are a few more to muck it up!

I have played MIMs that sounded and played better than SOME Pre-CBS's

Vintage American guitars are friggin cool, and part of the tone comes from the wood I am getting while playing that great old wood.

There are some killer imports that would win a blind shootout vs. american guitboxes.

Thank you......... That is allllllllllllll!! :)
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No there is not, they are called "opinions".
Man,if you really think a Mex. strat is sounding better than a pre-CBS, you need a hearing test!The pickups alone on Mex. strats suck bad! Low output, poor tone, no drive.
 
jmorris said:
No there is not, they are called "opinions".
Man,if you really think a Mex. strat is sounding better than a pre-CBS, you need a hearing test!The pickups alone on Mex. strats suck bad! Low output, poor tone, no drive.
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And that is your opinion. I too have heard Mexican Strats as well as Jap strats and copies that sound better than some Early US Strats. I have also heard pre CBS strats that sound fantastic. So I happen to agree with Flamin lip on this one. Some things I know for fact not opinion.

Fenders selection of woods and materials pre CBS was not as refined as it has become today. Their knowledge of the best criteria for tonewood selection just didn't exist then. That goes for all manufacturers of the time when designing and building solid bodies. The pickups and hardware quality varied quite a bit more than it does today. The manufacturing process had not been refined to the extent that it currently is. You can take two pre CBS strats of similar spec and they will be totally different in terms of response/tone and output. The same applies to modern guitars but the research and knowledge gained over 50 years has made it easier to produce consistent results. That may or may not be a good thing. The results are in no way guaranteed however. That is the nature of the beast. Your and my opinion may differ but we cant get away from those facts.
 
muttley600 said:
Have you been to those countries? Have you seen the working conditions? Have you seen the living conditions? Have you experienced the quality of life in Japan, Korea, Indonesia. Have you spoke to those workers? Have you any idea what you are talking about?
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You're funny.


First, I never mentioned Japan or Indonesia (especially Japan).


If you want to harbor some illusions that the Chinese who make Telecasters and the Americans who make telecasters live similar lives, guess again.


You're kidding, right?



I'll state the simple well-known fact again: American companies built products overseas in order to save money. Everyone knows this.


And the people in those countries tend to be dirt poor. And, yes, that includes Mexico, China, and Indonesia.


And, yes, I've visited third world nations that make U.S. products.


And, yes, I did happen to notice the children begging in the streets and the tiny wooden shacks built into the hillside. Yep, been there.


Now, what were you saying?
 
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