Do you really buy that expensive recording software?

[TerraMortim]

I have a PhD in applied BVDs from UCLA. on sundays I drive my BMW to the TGIF and drink some OJ to ease my STDs. I download from FTPs, listen to MP3s, and never go to HMV. I don't play WoW, and I'm not afraid of WMDs IMHO, ROFLMAO.

Those are my professional credentials

G2G, BBL

 

[dgatwood]

Adobe has only themselves to blame for making the best product? I don't see that as justification for not wanting to pay their price. If anything, it only justifies Adobe's price.

Adobe has themselves to blame for not releasing a product that suits the needs of the market. It would be very easy for them to create something between Elements (which is a joke) and the full Photoshop (which is too expensive for almost everyone who doesn't use it for professional publishing). Therefore, they shouldn't be surprised if people for whom Elements is insufficient end up pirating the full version. I'm not saying they deserve the piracy, but they shouldn't be at all surprised....

My main point, though, is that Adobe basically has a monopoly on image manipulation software. The competing products aren't even on the same planet, much less in the same league. If there were competition, Photoshop would cost a lot less because it really isn't nearly as complex or powerful as other software in its price class. I mean Photoshop is nowhere near the complexity of Logic or Digital Performer. It does nowhere near as much as Mac OS X Server. It isn't remotely as powerful as Premiere. Yet it is in the same price class. That strikes me as madness.

And the masses were not providing music for themselves in response to the music industry's lack of vision regarding online sales, they were stealing other people's music and sharing it online. Would be different if an entire new industry in independent music surfaced in retaliation, but instead it was just a free for all with someone else's product. The typical consumer is WAY too shallow to fight an issue on the moral high ground, everyone just wanted free music. Even if the music industry had jumped on the bandwagon right from the get-go the typical consumer would still want it free.

First, the people who downloaded music on Napster were the same people who were trading tapes and taping stuff off the radio. More to the point, unlike software, sharing music in that way among your friends is legal under the Audio Home Recording Act. It is only the act of sharing music with people who you don't know that makes it illegal.

Second, comparing software piracy to the train wreck of a recording industry that resulted in the rise of Napster is like comparing Neumann to a Chinese mic manufacturer.... The instant success of the iTunes store and Amazon downloads is undeniable proof that a large number of people are willing to buy music if it is made available under similar terms to pirated stuff, and the fact that music piracy has dropped substantially is due in large part to that availability. The recording industry people who ignored downloading, fought all attempts to create any online download stores, and then tried to sue to maintain their fundamentally flawed business model were total idiots, and quite frankly, I can't find a single tear to shed for them.

 

[mwthompson]

Adobe has themselves to blame for not releasing a product that suits the needs of the market.

This argument holds no water. If it doesn't suit your needs, why do you use it? It obviously suits your needs enough if you're willing to pay for it.

My main point, though, is that Adobe basically has a monopoly on image manipulation software. The competing products aren't even on the same planet, much less in the same league.

I disagree about the monopoly. Unless you need CMYK support (last I checked), GIMP is probably exactly what you're asking for. It does a lot of what PS does, just not using the same keystrokes or menu options. Have you actually given GIMP a real try, or are you guilty of the typical open-source knee jerk reaction? It's open source, so you can actually change it to suit your needs, if you like. (I assume you're a programmer, since you've stated that PS is not as complicated or powerful as a DAW and it would really take those credentials to say that intelligently.)

And again, if no other product even comes close, how can you say it isn't worth what it costs?!?

it really isn't nearly as complex or powerful as other software in its price class"

*blink*blink* ....... This is a program you claim does so much more than you need that it warrants a "lighter," cheaper version to suit you.

I know many extremely talented professional graphic designers that would laugh until they cried over that one.

Second, comparing software piracy to the train wreck of a recording industry that resulted in the rise of Napster is like comparing Neumann to a Chinese mic manufacturer....

Huh?

The rise of Napster is the result of the same thing that caused the rise of any other P2P program: People are greedy. Period. You think you have to be incorporated to be greedy?

Sure, a large number of people are willing to pay for music. After the RIAA started kicking down doors and handing out fines costing thousands. Fear of being caught is not the same as willingness to comply with the law.

I would, however, like to have the same faith in human kind that you have and believe that music and software piracy is just a matter of rebellion and a tool for change and not merely basic greed, but I don't.

But you're right that nobody should be surprised that piracy is happening.

 

[TerraMortim]

This argument holds no water.

I can't hold water either, I just pissed all over the wall.

 

[TerraMortim]

emusic's mom wears combat boots... pffttthttht

 

[wreckd504]

Originally posted by terramortim

everyone should pirate everything. I want to plunder...I want to kill...ransack the villages, rape the cattle and stampede the women... I want to go into a music store and smash everything with a sledge hammer, then shoot the owner in the face, because it's fun. I think I'll burn down the offices of Native Instruments, and then piss on the ashes...I'll poop on the front lawns of the folks at Adobe and edit their faces onto the feces with a pirated version of photoshop and nail it to their front doors. I'll throw everyone that works at sony bmg into the ocean, one by one, and watch them getting eaten by sharks and giant squid while I listen to downloaded mp3s on my ipod, and downloading movies via bit torrent on my PDA. I'll do it...then I'll come for all of you....and your little doggies too!

HAHA i actually laughed out loud in the middle of my office when i read that

 

[mwthompson]

You know what they say, never discuss software piracy or illegal music downloads.

..or was that politics and religion? I get those confused.

 

[TerraMortim]

so which one is politics and which one is religion?

 

[Emusic]

emusic's mom wears combat boots... pffttthttht

bla bla

 

[Dax Productions]

I hate when people say stuff to the effect of "recording software wouldn't be so expensive if people didn't use cracked software."

You forget that these programs are tools to make money yourself!! If I cut an album with the newest version of sonar, and that album goes on to become huge and make me tens of thousands of dollars, wouldn't cakewalk have been stupid to sell that software to me for say... $60? Of course they would!! I'm happy to pay hundreds of dollars for this stuff, because of the potential income it provides me!

As for people that are just "hobby" recording guys... Don't complain about the price. Suck it up and pay it, or just use a less featured version of a software (cakewalk makes guitar tracks or whatever, theres cubase le and all sorts of stuff like that). You can't "afford" to buy it because its not meant for you anyways. These are PROFESSIONAL tools meant for people that are PROFESSIONALS.

 

[mwthompson]

As for people that are just "hobby" recording guys... Don't complain about the price. Suck it up and pay it, or just use a less featured version of a software (cakewalk makes guitar tracks or whatever, theres cubase le and all sorts of stuff like that). You can't "afford" to buy it because its not meant for you anyways. These are PROFESSIONAL tools meant for people that are PROFESSIONALS.

I totally agree. I think Reaper is a great alternative for hobbyists, and has more features than Cubase LE even. $50 for the "hobbyist" (non-commercial) license. I even think some professionals are using it too.

 

[DaveO]

Interesting point. I'd love to know how many people using pirated or cracked versions of the big name recording packages are actually using more than 5% of the capabilities of those packages. I'm sure most of those people would be MORE than adequately served by low-cost alternatives packages like Reaper, nTrack, etc.

And for the record, I can put my money where my mouth is. I used nTrack for several years, LOVED it, and used it to record my song that made it onto the last Homerecording.comP CD. The only reason I stopped using it was because some people I started working with were already using SONAR and I needed to be compatible with them. Had I not hooked up with them and kind of been forced to change I would have been very happy to stick with it.

 

[urobolusmusic]

I completely feel that the unchecked internet has ruined the music industry.

Give me a break.

If you want to know what "... ruined the music industry" then look no further than the industry itself: the record labels. If anyone should know what piracy is, it would be they, seeing as they only give the artists maybe 1%-10% of the PROFIT from sales. Lets not even get into how most major labels keep their artists intentionally in debt for x-amount of albums to keep them on a short leash (wait, isn't that similar to slavery?). It is no different than Hollywood c. 1930-1950, where actors and actresses were contracted to studios to do anything they asked for peanuts; everything from who they dated, to what they wore, to where they'd be at night.

Maybe, the "artists" should consider not writing such contrived crap just to get themselves out of debt from the label and fulfill their contractual obligations. Maybe, the labels should consider not exploiting their artists so that they actually write decent music. That way, maybe when people download the CD, they'll say "Hey, most of the songs are good, I'm gonna go buy this CD," instead of "Blah, one OK song... I'll just keep it and get rid of the rest." You produce crap, expect to get it back in return. Consumer "piracy" is just an excuse to jack up prices so labels can make more money and limit the amount of profit independent artists bring in that could be going to the labels’ artists (independent! *gasp* we can't have artists having a 60%-70% profit margin!). Independent artists, after all, do rely heavily on any medium that gets their music heard: free or not.

I'm interested to know how many of these people blaming "pirates" for the rise in prices of CD's, also say that the oil industry utilizes any excuse they can to raise prices. Or, how many people say that the Bush administration manufactures intelligence to sway public consent. Why can the oil industry and the Administration be crooks and vultures, but not the music industry? IT'S CAPITALISM PEOPLE! If you accept capitalism, accept the fact you're going to get screwed any possible way, by almost anyone, just so some sap can make a few extra bucks.

All-in-all, I see the high CD prices as good thing. In fact, I hope the prices keep going up so that eventually no one can afford to by CD’s and the industry collapses upon itself. Then, the integrity that has been missing from it for DECADES might be restored. Artist’s success will be based upon their musical and showman abilities, instead of their marketability and forecasted revenue generation. The fan/band relationship will be more intimate, and the fans wouldn’t mind helping their favorite band finance their next albums (like Rage Against the Machine, Einsturzende Neubauten, and few other bands have done with great success), instead of having hordes of “hipsters” that flock to buy a CD because a band was on the cover of Spin because a label forked over a few mil, while their music equates to farting on drum heads and two-year-olds yelling into guitars and playing the microphone like Sid Vicious, and then promptly abandon that band when the radio, TV, and magazines tell them the band isn’t cool anymore. But then again, the price of CD’s doesn’t really affect me because most of the artists I listen to are independent and sell their CD’s for $12, and have enough dignity and pride in themselves to not sign to a major label.

Oh yea, this thread is about software…

 

[TerraMortim]

I totally agree. I think Reaper is a great alternative for hobbyists, and has more features than Cubase LE even. $50 for the "hobbyist" (non-commercial) license. I even think some professionals are using it too.

Have you tried raper? It's way better!

 

[Emusic]

The oracle has spoken.

/amen

 

[TerraMortim]

bla bla

My daddy is an army comando, he's gonna bring a bazooka over to your house and beat up your daddy.

 

[TerraMortim]

I hate when people say stuff to the effect of "recording software wouldn't be so expensive if people didn't use cracked software."

You forget that these programs are tools to make money yourself!! If I cut an album with the newest version of sonar, and that album goes on to become huge and make me tens of thousands of dollars, wouldn't cakewalk have been stupid to sell that software to me for say... $60? Of course they would!! I'm happy to pay hundreds of dollars for this stuff, because of the potential income it provides me!

As for people that are just "hobby" recording guys... Don't complain about the price. Suck it up and pay it, or just use a less featured version of a software (cakewalk makes guitar tracks or whatever, theres cubase le and all sorts of stuff like that). You can't "afford" to buy it because its not meant for you anyways. These are PROFESSIONAL tools meant for people that are PROFESSIONALS.

It's a little difference when a complex DAW software goes for a few hundred bucks, verses...say... one of the URS plugins going for as much as a full copy of Logic Studio (Logic Pro 8, WaveBurner, SoundTrack Pro, MainStage, and a whole whack of samples, loops, etc..) I gladly pay for my licenses of logic every time...it's a very good program, that is even a bargain at that price... but come on...$500 for a plugin? Are they...INSANE?!?!?!

 

[TerraMortim]

Give me a break.

If you want to know what "... ruined the music industry" then look no further than the industry itself: the record labels. If anyone should know what piracy is, it would be they, seeing as they only give the artists maybe 1%-10% of the PROFIT from sales. Lets not even get into how most major labels keep their artists intentionally in debt for x-amount of albums to keep them on a short leash (wait, isn't that similar to slavery?). It is no different than Hollywood c. 1930-1950, where actors and actresses were contracted to studios to do anything they asked for peanuts; everything from who they dated, to what they wore, to where they'd be at night.

Maybe, the "artists" should consider not writing such contrived crap just to get themselves out of debt from the label and fulfill their contractual obligations. Maybe, the labels should consider not exploiting their artists so that they actually write decent music. That way, maybe when people download the CD, they'll say "Hey, most of the songs are good, I'm gonna go buy this CD," instead of "Blah, one OK song... I'll just keep it and get rid of the rest." You produce crap, expect to get it back in return. Consumer "piracy" is just an excuse to jack up prices so labels can make more money and limit the amount of profit independent artists bring in that could be going to the labels’ artists (independent! *gasp* we can't have artists having a 60%-70% profit margin!). Independent artists, after all, do rely heavily on any medium that gets their music heard: free or not.

I'm interested to know how many of these people blaming "pirates" for the rise in prices of CD's, also say that the oil industry utilizes any excuse they can to raise prices. Or, how many people say that the Bush administration manufactures intelligence to sway public consent. Why can the oil industry and the Administration be crooks and vultures, but not the music industry? IT'S CAPITALISM PEOPLE! If you accept capitalism, accept the fact you're going to get screwed any possible way, by almost anyone, just so some sap can make a few extra bucks.

All-in-all, I see the high CD prices as good thing. In fact, I hope the prices keep going up so that eventually no one can afford to by CD’s and the industry collapses upon itself. Then, the integrity that has been missing from it for DECADES might be restored. Artist’s success will be based upon their musical and showman abilities, instead of their marketability and forecasted revenue generation. The fan/band relationship will be more intimate, and the fans wouldn’t mind helping their favorite band finance their next albums (like Rage Against the Machine, Einsturzende Neubauten, and few other bands have done with great success), instead of having hordes of “hipsters” that flock to buy a CD because a band was on the cover of Spin because a label forked over a few mil, while their music equates to farting on drum heads and two-year-olds yelling into guitars and playing the microphone like Sid Vicious, and then promptly abandon that band when the radio, TV, and magazines tell them the band isn’t cool anymore. But then again, the price of CD’s doesn’t really affect me because most of the artists I listen to are independent and sell their CD’s for $12, and have enough dignity and pride in themselves to not sign to a major label.

Oh yea, this thread is about software…

I couldn't agree more! hell yeah! hahaha

The model the RIAA uses to justify them doing whatever the fuck they want is the same as many political administrations do. Problem Reaction Solution... Create some sort of a problem, watch as people react, offer the solution... They play up this big bad piracy monster, even though the lesser dollars that are being made are part of the natural decline that happens when a release format starts to age, watch people panic... oh no... music is going away...we won't have music... oh no...and then offer solutions that no one would go for, but...in these dire circumstances it's a necessary evil...we'll pay an insane amount of money for substandard music...after all, we don't want music to go away.

Prices are where they always have been for CDs...regardless of piracy...they were around there even before cd burners were available to the public. They charge that price because up until recently, they had no competition (it's not as much like movies where the price goes down insanely fairly quickly after releasing to DVD.. oh yes, and with movies you can also rent them if you can't afford to purchase every single thing you watch)... so, they could charge whatever they felt like, and people would have to pay it.

Or lets further expand on this tactic... problem... you go to jail...reaction... oh my god, I can't go to jail..what will become of my family...solution... buy this expensive substandard music or don't listen to music at all... sure beats going to prison to become the jail block bicycle.

Problem...artists are all suffering because of piracy... reaction... oh my god... I love their music, I don't want to screw my favourite artists over... solution ... contribute to the problem by buying more overpriced substandard music... I sure want to support the artists that make the music that's touched my life...

Problem...The RIAA will sue you beyond what could ever be considered close to reasonable for a private person for the act in which they are suing, and magically everyone, including the judge will go along with it, even though it defies reason, or any inkling of logic...reaction... holy shit the MAFIAA are going to come get me ...I'd better be good.... solution.... buy overpriced substandard music because... it's a lot better than shelling out a quarter of a million dollars like that one ordinary middle class woman had to do.

You have to see beyond the propaganda. Artists have always been suffering and only do so more because the way their contracts are set up is to screw them... Sure the artists are being hurt, but only because that's the way the labels set it up, so that if there was a decline in sales, they certainly wouldn't feel the hit of it the hardest.

The music industry has gotten away with screwing every single person known to mankind over for pretty much it's entire existence... every other industry that's tried that kind of shit (with the exception of a few, such as oil and pharmaceuticals) has gotten smacked down... but the industry of music keeps on screwing people...artists... consumers....everybody that is screwable.. There's no other industry on the planet that can get away with giving the producers of their goods so little... Imagine if CocaCola turned around to the regional manufacturing plants they have all over the place and gave them the same kind of deal that record labels give artists...and then imagine if all of the soft drink manufacturers decided they wanted to charge $10 for a can of soda, and they all adjusted their prices accordingly... there would be mass public outcry, and 1. the manufacturing plants would turn around and sue CocaCola. 2. Nobody would buy the expensive soda and all of the companies would die.

Any time you try to compare other industries to the music industry and imagine that they run their businesses the same, it seems so ridiculous, so why doesn't it with the music industry...what are they immune? What if the oil industry started going around suing everyone who made 100% alternative energy run cars... imagine how ape shit everyone would go. What if Dell sued everyone who built their own computer... boy it's sure making it hard on business...something must be done to protect these POOR POOR RICH FOLKS! (ever notice how rich people are always priority #1?)

I want to see the entire music industry fail... all of the major record labels go out of business... music retailers have to close up shop...the RIAA get sued out of existence due to their highly illegal legal practices...and music to have some god damned integrity...

 

[Emusic]

........

 

[TerraMortim]

are you really affiliated with the site emusic? Love the charts section.... but release my sales god damn it! lol wanna know how good I did.