DMP3 VU Meters?

Chris Long

Chris Long

New member
Hi Folks-
Just got a DMP3, and have only tried it a bit so far, but my first impression is that the VU meters are somewhat useless. They look nice, but on the unit I got, they don't seem to move much--or at least not in a usable way. Is this normal? Is it something others have noted?

It's really not a problem--I usually am monitoring levels in my software--and the unit sounds fine, as far as I can tell at this point. Just thought they might move more, or differently...or something.

What do you think?
 
Analog VU meters aren't going to move as fast as lets say the digital meters in your DAW, so yes, I'd say it's normal.
 
While they should be moving

in a way, it really doesn't matter because you don't want to be paying any real attention to them anyway. VU meters are too slow to be useful in digital recording anyway, especially cheap meters like those. If what you hear and see in your daw is good, then don't sweat it. They're just pretty lights that look cool. Other than that, ignore them.
 
I've got to disagree with that last statement - If more people paid attention to their VU meters (I still find it outrageous that so few MFG's of budget-friendly gear leave such vital components out to save $5 on a unit), people wouldn't be overdriving their input chains and wondering "why my mixes don't sound like 'pro' mixes" so often.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be care taken -- But too many people don't even understand the concept of proper gain staging *because of* peak meters -- or the lack of VU meters -- or both.
 
I agree,...they're not very functional. Asside from being very small and the deflection being so tight in that little window, I'm thinking the most important thing to keep an eye on would be the clipping light and that you've got good signal to your sound card.
 
Massive Master said:
I've got to disagree with that last statement - If more people paid attention to their VU meters (I still find it outrageous that so few MFG's of budget-friendly gear leave such vital components out to save $5 on a unit), people wouldn't be overdriving their input chains and wondering "why my mixes don't sound like 'pro' mixes" so often.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be care taken -- But too many people don't even understand the concept of proper gain staging *because of* peak meters -- or the lack of VU meters -- or both.
Click to expand...

+100000000000000000000000000000
 
I thought it was deja vu... but it wasn't...

I thought the board had restored from a 6 month old backup... but it didn't...

This was posted back in March of this year...

Click the arrow in the quote to read that thread

danny.guitar said:
My DMP3 VU meters don't seem to be working at all. Not really a big deal but it'd be nice if they did.

I record at an average level of -18dbFS, which should show up as about 0db on the VU meter, correct?

I have the "gain range" button pushed in because I record with SDC mics and I don't need an output level that hot.

I tried anyway, and they still didn't move. :(

Anyone else experience this?
Click to expand...
 
Massive Master said:
I've got to disagree with that last statement - If more people paid attention to their VU meters (I still find it outrageous that so few MFG's of budget-friendly gear leave such vital components out to save $5 on a unit), people wouldn't be overdriving their input chains and wondering "why my mixes don't sound like 'pro' mixes" so often.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be care taken -- But too many people don't even understand the concept of proper gain staging *because of* peak meters -- or the lack of VU meters -- or both.
Click to expand...
Please forgive my ignorance but aren’t converters going to clip way before the mic pre anyway? I don’t understand why we need to know anything other than instantaneous peak levels in the DAW when there isn’t any danger of the mic pre clipping before the next device in the path?

Or is that just an incorrect assumption based on the behaviour of the gear that I use? My pres barely break a sweat getting even relatively soft sources into the DAW at a good level.

I thought I had a handle on this stuff, obviously not. :o
 
Massive Master said:
I've got to disagree with that last statement - If more people paid attention to their VU meters (I still find it outrageous that so few MFG's of budget-friendly gear leave such vital components out to save $5 on a unit), people wouldn't be overdriving their input chains and wondering "why my mixes don't sound like 'pro' mixes" so often.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be care taken -- But too many people don't even understand the concept of proper gain staging *because of* peak meters -- or the lack of VU meters -- or both.
Click to expand...

punkin said:
I agree,...they're not very functional. Asside from being very small and the deflection being so tight in that little window, I'm thinking the most important thing to keep an eye on would be the clipping light and that you've got good signal to your sound card.
Click to expand...

I think punkin answered Massive's concern - I agree that those VUs don't respond as fast as what is going in usually, but you should be paying attention to the clip light, and to where those VU needles jump to during your loudest bursts... not that the OP was complaining about unknown clipping, it is just a good thing to note. I usually worry more about the clip light on the pre, and the overall levels in software (how high they are - not correcting them due to poor gain settings :p)

And as far as I recall, you might see clips in software due to the converters overloading before you see the pre clip, but to be honest, I usually don't see distorted clipping in software because I check to make sure the loudest thing that might go into a mic doesn't clip the pre or the converters before hitting record. If you are trying to fix that after the fact, you might want to cut back the gain a bit on your pre and rerecord :D
 
Massive Master said:
I've got to disagree with that last statement - If more people paid attention to their VU meters (I still find it outrageous that so few MFG's of budget-friendly gear leave such vital components out to save $5 on a unit), people wouldn't be overdriving their input chains and wondering "why my mixes don't sound like 'pro' mixes" so often.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be care taken -- But too many people don't even understand the concept of proper gain staging *because of* peak meters -- or the lack of VU meters -- or both.
Click to expand...

Say, Massive...

I don't disagree with what you're saying. Understanding the gazintas, goezoutaz and how the levels work onto the various stages very important. But, how would you approach an entry level mic pre like this one. While it does have a VU, it's tiny. Also, there aren't independant controls for input and output. I took this into consideration when I posted my last comment and was thinking the best you can do is get a good signal to the audio interface without clipping it anywhere along the way. I suppose in retrospect, a good question to ask would have been more detail on the audio interface being used...is it +4, consumer, -10 etc..that would have been a good follow up question on my part as well.

You probably don't have any gear quite like this in your facility but I'm just wondering what advice you would have for the entry-level guy. Thanks
 
Let me clarify

If this were a studio with high-end equipment and large, accurate VU meters, it might be a little different. But DMP3 meters have a reputation for not being very trustworthy, hence my response.
 
Interesting- I agree with everyone. I like vu meters a lot, but the ones on the DMP-3 are fairly useless. The ones on my Avalon work pretty damned well. Huh-you do get what you pay for.-Richie
 
Yeah mine don't hardly move at all really. They look really cool though. And the unit sounds fine. So no big deal. (I hope).
 
Chris Long said:
Hi Folks-
Just got a DMP3, and have only tried it a bit so far, but my first impression is that the VU meters are somewhat useless. They look nice, but on the unit I got, they don't seem to move much--or at least not in a usable way. Is this normal?
Click to expand...

Yes, it's normal. They're just eye candy to reel people in. There's no way to have real VU meters in equipment that costs as little as this (real VU meter assemblies can easily cost upwards of $100 each). Even if that weren't so, I don't see the usefulness of having moving-needle meters in a digital recording situation. This type of meter is better suited for analog recording.
 
Keep in mind that the DMP3 meters are calibrated to 0vu = +12dBv, which is 14.2 dBu. So yes, they're not big boy meters, but it's important to know what level all your meters are calibrated to.
 
Kevin Deschwazi said:
Please forgive my ignorance but aren’t converters going to clip way before the mic pre anyway? I don’t understand why we need to know anything other than instantaneous peak levels in the DAW when there isn’t any danger of the mic pre clipping before the next device in the path?
Click to expand...

It's not all about clipping. The ideal setting is to have your converters set to unity gain (neither padding the signal down nor boosting it) and set the levels with the pre unless your preamp ends up clipping or gets noisy at that gain level, in which case it may be advantageous to reduce the gain on the pre and add a little gain on the converters.

If you have the preamp gain too high (even if you aren't clipping), you are adding noise. If you then have the inputs on your converters turned down, you are throwing that gain away. You would be better off (less noise) if you increased the converter input level to unity gain and dropped the preamp gain back. That way, you aren't boosting and then cutting it back down, but are simply not boosting it that much in the first place.

Similarly, if you have the preamp gain too low, you end up bringing the signal up more at the converters. This is probably less than optimal because then your converters are amplifying any noise that the preamp added plus any noise that was induced in the cable between the two pieces of gear. Of course, if your preamp is all the way up, this may be unavoidable, and if your preamp gets really noisy at high gain, it might be better to boost it elsewhere.

Of course, then there's the question of whether unity gain is really avoiding a boost or is really boosting and then cutting again (or vice versa).... On some devices, the gain might be fixed, and it may be padding the input down to compensate. In that case, on that device, you're better off opening it wide open.

In other words, it depends. YMMV. Experiment.
 
Massive Master said:
I've got to disagree with that last statement - If more people paid attention to their VU meters (I still find it outrageous that so few MFG's of budget-friendly gear leave such vital components out to save $5 on a unit), people wouldn't be overdriving their input chains and wondering "why my mixes don't sound like 'pro' mixes" so often.

I'm not saying that there doesn't need to be care taken -- But too many people don't even understand the concept of proper gain staging *because of* peak meters -- or the lack of VU meters -- or both.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I'm glad I wasn't drinking hot coffee when I read the previous message, or I would have burned myself. I totally agree with Massive.

I always hang a pair of VU meters off my main recorder output (the unattentuated one) so I can monitor levels in a useful way. I usually calibrate the meters with the - 3VU reading (about 50% across the sweep) at -20 dBFS.

Actually, I have a pair of huge Simpson meters that are pre-VU standard that I may also use, once I locate another two channel buffer amp for those meters. That way I can have one set calibrated for the DAW rec output and the other pair of meters calibrated for the rec output on the Yamaha standalone I got a few weeks ago. It's line outputs are a good bit lower in level.

Cheers,

Otto
 
Meters....one word: Dorrough.

Peak plus average on 2 very detailed LCD scales, set in a pair of plastic windows big enough to wash.

Cool to look at, and accurate to work with. Just right.

C.
 
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