i thought it is best to record around -18dbfs

  • Thread starter Thread starter djclueveli
  • Start date Start date
the line level reference voltages havent necessarily been lowered though

Lets say 16 bit converter A has 0 VU = -12dBFS

Lets say converter B has 0 VU = -18dBFS

0 VU = 0 VU in either case, a +4 dBu from the preceeding device ( lets name this preceeding device "amplifier" )

So in the case of converter A, a sine wave at 0VU to the input of amplifier would need a gain boost at the output of amplifier of 12 dB to write odBFS to the DAW. Might be doable with a decent mic pre or whatever, but operating at 12 dB over its optimal range is....not optimal

In the case of converter B the same sine wave would need ! 18db ! of boost before writing 0dBFS to the DAW....12 db? maybe, 18? ugh...asking for it
 
And that's at an "average" 24-bit conversion calibration. There seems to be a trend in the past two years or so of new gear to bump up the digital headroom even more. Many of today's hardware DAWs and digital mixers seem to be settling upon a 0VU = -20dBFS calibration.

Even some established models have changed their spec in the last model year or two (if I remember right - someone correct me if I'm wrong - one or more of the Yamaha 0-series [01V/02R96] have changed calibration to expand their digital headroom in the past year or so.)

In a case like that, one could easily have a power guitar track like the one described in post 54 that surrounds line level by peaking at +3VU, and when recording to digital would only record at a *peak* level of -17dBFS.

And that works just fine. The analog side is noise-quiet and avoiding potential amp distortion from over-gain. The digital side is quite happy because -17dBFS is still riding on 21 of 24 bits, meaning that it's riding 126dB above the digital floor, which is still plenty of room to fit the entire analog signal's full dynamic range, which is probably somewhere down around 110dB.

And it means that the digital mixing software can work at levels where one can create a quiet, clean, relatively digital-distortion-free mix with plenty of leftover headroom, just like Tom and John like so they can do their mastering jobs correctly and with impunity, and maybe even make your production sound as loud and as good "as a commercial CD."

Kinda neat how it all fits together like that. :)

G.
 
the line level reference voltages havent necessarily been lowered though

Lets say 16 bit converter A has 0 VU = -12dBFS

Lets say converter B has 0 VU = -18dBFS

0 VU = 0 VU in either case, a +4 dBu from the preceeding device ( lets name this preceeding device "amplifier" )

So in the case of converter A, a sine wave at 0VU to the input of amplifier would need a gain boost at the output of amplifier of 12 dB to write odBFS to the DAW. Might be doable with a decent mic pre or whatever, but operating at 12 dB over its optimal range is....not optimal

In the case of converter B the same sine wave would need ! 18db ! of boost before writing 0dBFS to the DAW....12 db? maybe, 18? ugh...asking for it


So am I correct in assuming it's more the other way? The later converter, probably I guess due to the huge extra demands a full potential 24 bit range places on analog signal chains, has a reduced sensitivity, leading to risk of the analog pre clipping before reaching 0dbFS.

At an engineering level it's perfectly understandable. Unless you can lower the voltage of the analog noise, for any given increase in dynamic range specification,(or bit rate) you have to go up and raise (effectively) undistorted output voltage, which translates essentially into higher positive and negative equipment rail voltages.
Still it's confusing. From an engineering standpoint, raising PS rail voltage rails is hardly rocket science. Surely if the sensitivity of converters has been lowered, why hasnt the undistorted output of pre's been raised by a complementary degree? Analog gear headroom (ie: undistorted output voltage) does not create a matching problem. It's just more headroom.

Perhaps it relates to equipment reference voltage standards. If so shouldnt the amp driving the converter be designed to clip at a higher output voltage?
That is, keep the same reference voltage (eg +4dbu) but design in more headroom in the output drive amp?


Again, your thoughts?

Cheers Tim
 
So am I correct in assuming it's more the other way? The later converter, probably I guess due to the huge extra demands a full potential 24 bit range places on analog signal chains, has a reduced sensitivity, leading to risk of the analog pre clipping before reaching 0dbFS.

At an engineering level it's perfectly understandable. Unless you can lower the voltage of the analog noise, for any given increase in dynamic range specification,(or bit rate) you have to go up and raise (effectively) undistorted output voltage, which translates essentially into higher positive and negative equipment rail voltages.
Still it's confusing. From an engineering standpoint, raising PS rail voltage rails is hardly rocket science. Surely if the sensitivity of converters has been lowered, why hasnt the undistorted output of pre's been raised by a complementary degree? Analog gear headroom (ie: undistorted output voltage) does not create a matching problem. It's just more headroom.

Perhaps it relates to equipment reference voltage standards. If so shouldnt the amp driving the converter be designed to clip at a higher output voltage?
That is, keep the same reference voltage (eg +4dbu) but design in more headroom in the output drive amp?


Again, your thoughts?

Cheers Tim
Maybe it might help to look at it not as a "decrease in converter sensitivity" so much as simply a change in the selected conversion factor to the digital scale.

On the analog side, it all still revolves around the designed incoming line level (typically a calibrated 0VU = +4dBu commercial line level.) What really changes is just how the converter is calibrated as to just what level in dBFS it converts that +4dBu line level to.

You're right, it's just more headroom - in the sense that it's increasing the amount of digital headroom after conversion. Much of the reason for that is because at 24 bits, the digital noise floor drops low enough where there's still enough dynamic range on the digital side to be able to afford that headroom.

The advantages to that are that it A) leaves more room for peak dynamics, B) allows one to have more "useable" digital headroom without having to worry about over-gain noise and distortion in the analog stage and at the top end of the converter, and C) leaves more room for the ME to do their thang. All without unnecessarily increasing noise levels, without having to throw extra engineering in the analog stages, and without having to worry about S/N ratio on the digital side.

G.
 
It seems what this always comes down to is confusion in the terms. I know I have been guilty of posting crap info before, and probably will again. I try to do my best to figure out the rules behind all the befuddlery, but its tricky

In addition to the truth, there is also "Truth(tm)" being sold to us by the marketing arms of so many companies, the press who's job it should be to INFORM us, but instead just act as mouthpieces to speak the lies or misdirections from their biggest advertisers and now even some educational institutions who should be 100% immune from the nonsense are spreading it themselves.

Being full of shit is big business, and not just in the recording industry. Propping up a stock does NOT require adherence to truth, just the opposite, it may require suppression of truth.

Anyhow, rant over...I did my best to research all my stuff in this thread as best I could, and hopefully if I got some stuff wrong someone will correct me.

Looks like the other posters in this thread really know their stuff and hopefully its getting clearer that there are no "magic bits" 3 bits down is just as good a place to be as 6 bits down, assuming a decent 24 bit converter.

The way to decide where your bits should be is in the calibration of your system itself. If most of your stuff is -10, dont go setting everything to +4 just because +4 says "professional" on it....use the level practices that work best for the gear you have on hand. The point in this thread is that in MANY cases, that level is a lot lower than you might think.

here is an awesome picture showing how some of these things relate to each other...take a look at the line that goes thru 0VU and note how its on different places relative to other metering systems.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/images/qadbcomparison.l.jpg
 
So am I correct in assuming it's more the other way? The later converter, probably I guess due to the huge extra demands a full potential 24 bit range places on analog signal chains, has a reduced sensitivity, leading to risk of the analog pre clipping before reaching 0dbFS.
Let's make one thing perfectly clear (no pun intended) -- We're not talking about the analog chain clipping -- We're talking about it distorting.

Clipping is the *failure* of the circuit. With digital, it's simple -- "Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect, CLIP."

With analog, it's not nearly as simplistic -- "Perfect, decent, unfocused, grainy, audibly distorted, CLIP."

Analog gear, no matter how much available headroom it may have before the circuit fails completely, isn't going to be the same when it's pushed above where it was designed to run at (line level, or in most cases, around -18dB(FS)RMS). And as the noise floor of 24-bit is SOOOO far below the noise floor of basically *any* analog preamp (or most any analog gear, period), that goes out the window. The S/N of the *analog* chain has to be accounted for, but even that tends to be much better *below* nominal than above (the whole "preamps don't argue about NOT being pushed too hard" part).

And even *if* there's a little additive noise (nowhere near what tape would give), I'd MUCH rather have a little "noise" (that can very easily be treated or masked) than have additive distortion - Which is there forever.
Oh yea, I trust their advice.:rolleyes:
Amen. Still shocks me how many manufacturers still push that in their lit. *Especially* when their gear is aimed at "budget friendly" rigs -- which have much less *usable* headroom than others.
 
okay, isn't the "headroom" of a preamp an measure of the room before all out clipping? If so than maybe there can be distortion before actual analog clipping occurs? Is this what the argument is about- whether there is distortion before clipping happens in analog?
 
The funniest thing is that there really should not be much debate here. With the first couple generations of converters, the advice was track hot, don't go over. At that time, runnning your analog front end in it's optimal range permitted that, but occasionally had to actually be lowered to accomodate it (ever track drums on ADATs?). Now we have room to use so we can let our analog front end do it's thing properly and then the digital backend can also do what it was intended to do.

The best part of all of this is that none of it is "really" up for debate. This is not really much of a "opinion" issue like so many other things are. I would bet that virtually every analog manufacturer would reccomend that you primarily run their equipment in its optimal range. I would bet that virtually every manufacturer of digital converters would tell you that the converter will run it's best close to the top. I would also be willing to bet that if you were to ask those same people about how it should run as a COMPLETE SYSTEM that they would all tell you go ahead and run your analog front end in it's optimal range and that the converter will still sound great. I bet almost all of the analog manufacturers would not make that same claim if you told them you wanted to run their equipment at +17.9 which on many converters is "hot as you can without clipping". See why that advice is so bad? I would be willing to bet that most every manufacturer that tells you any differently then what I just said above is not very reputable. And no, I do not consider Behringer reputable so it would not surprise me if they gave the track hot advice and our equipment will handle it. In fact, in this specific event track as quiet as possible may be the best solution. 2 bit converter noise might just sound better:D
 
I agree with Pipeline that breaking this subject down so it's understandable can be tricky. Hopefully I'm not too full of shit here, but I'm going to try. (This is mostly for Tim).

16 and 24 bit systems behave a bit differently in regard to the noise factor at or near the LSB, or Least Significant Bit. Forget about noise for a second here. Noise is not an issue.

Digital noise comes from aliasing crap or something like that that occurs at and/or near the LSB. Imagine a very, very low volume, but distinctly audible clicking noise. It happens a lot when you start changing sample rates, which is another topic altogether. The way to get rid of it is a workaround solution at best, but a very effective one that still leaves you with a lot less noise than with tape hiss from the old Studer & MCI days. You add a very, very tiny amount of white noise to the signal. It's called dither. It masks the digital noise so's you can't notice it. It also blends in very well with practically any other sound, so you can't really effectively even hear this white noise.

Let's say you're listening to a cranked up Marshall amp with some hot chick banging out power chords on a Les Paul. She's not wearing a bra, and she's all excited. This digital noise thing would sound like a mouse fart in comparison, in 16-bit audio systems. 24-bit systems reduce that to about the level of an ant fart. This noise would be difficult to notice if you were completely focused on it and struggling to do so, provided that your monitor chain could actually reproduce it. You're likely to get much more noise in the system from other issues like cables, monitors, flourescent lights, HVAC systems and such.

Essentially, forget about noise floor.

<deep breath>

A bit is like a 2 position switch. A 0 or a 1. Binary. In PCM audio, this is how dynamics are determined, and it's divided into 6 dB chunks. It's easy to know how much range a 16 bit system has:

6 dB multiplied by 16 bits = 96 dB range.

The most significant bit has all the other bits to back it up. This is the audio range from -6 to 0 dBFS.

The least significant bit is by itself. The range of choices for dynamics are pretty simple here - either you have audio at ONE LEVEL ONLY, or no audio is present whatsoever. The 16 or 24 bit word length builds on it from there. Each time the word length adds a bit, the available number of splits to register a distinct dynamic level is doubled. 2 bits gives you 4 available choices and 12 dB range to be considered. The audio will sound like crap because there aren't enough variations to render it at an accurate level.

At 16 bits, the overall number of splits possible is simply 65,536. Half of that range lives in the area from -6 to 0 dBFS. As you keep moving down in 6 dB increments, the range keeps getting cut in half.


The main excuse that makes any kind of sense for printing hot levels in 16 bit systems is this "dynamic resolution" thing, or whatever.

The 0 VU = Line Level thing has not changed, ever, in decades. There is no standard for where your converters are calibrated to, as others have already said.

If 0VU = -12 dBFS, that's 12dB for transients. 12 dB is not a lot. It's wimpy. People calibrated their converters that way because of the dropoff of resolution, not the noise.

Between -6 and 0 dBFS, there are 32,768 "peg holes" if you will, to describe where the audio level is.

Between -12 and -6, it's half that much. 16,384.

-18 to -12, 8,192.

-24 to -18, 4,096.

It keeps crapping out.


Imagine that you just record one hit on a crash cymbal. It can easily fade by 40, 60 dB or more, and you can hear that quite distinctly when it's by itself. It loses its realism at lower levels because there aren't enough distinct spaces for the audio system (PCM digital) to describe where the volume is at.

In 24 bit systems, a level of around -48 dB has all of the full range in this regard as a 16 bit system at maximum.

Again, a bit is like a light switch. 2 choices, on or off.

2 <to the power of> 16 (bits) = 65,532

2 <to the power of> 24 (bits) = 16,777,216


All of a sudden, now all your cymbal fades and any sounds that end up in the quieter range of what you're recording can be captured much more accurately and realistically. You're almost down to the level of mouse fart again before things start to fall apart. So now there's no need to chump out on the headroom. More headroom is better - it's pretty easy to chew up that first 12 dB when you're recording something with a lot of transients.

Now consider that the individual recorded sounds of instruments are lower than what you want to end up with in a mix. Even if you record all the instruments at a very conservative level, say RMS levels at around -20 dB or so, once you start combining them for the mix, the signal strength of each individual sound will add to everything else. All the levels will "sum". Once you have 8 tracks or so in a mix, you could easily and very likely find that you have to start pulling track levels down to keep the overall mix from clipping. All of a sudden it doesn't seem to make very much sense to need to record stun/hot level tracks if you're only going to have to turn them down later (by a lot) anyway, when you can just as easily record them at much cleaner levels and still have to turn them down, but less. Even a mix should still have its own headroom, and won't be as loud as a commercial CD that's been rammed to the rails with compression and limiting. That's not the goal of a mix.

Myself, I'm guessing that the less you have to screw around with the volume of a recorded track in a digital mixing enviornment, the closer the final sound will be to what came out of the microphone in the first place. Regardless of the whole 16/24 "digital resolution" argument!

Again, if you run your preamps at line level and nothing clips (or even comes close!) things should be pretty decent. That's how it was all designed to work. Many pros advocate that printing even lower than that is just fine if not better under certain circumstances.


I'm sure there are other things to consider, but maybe this makes some kind of sense?


sl
 
I AM DRUNK and this has a rambly quality to it, but that that makes perfect sense to me Snow Lizard! Really. This is how I took that;

I track a snare using my Firepod. Presonus' website suggests that the Firepod has 22b of headroom. Average hits are -24db, sometimes lower, sometimes higher. Let's say within a range of -24 and -30db for the hell of it.

That's 24db of headroom on average with this snare track in 16bit or 24bit, so when I increase it 24db in my DAW, it's at 0 average, and that's how much headroom I have no argument. BUT at:

16bit, I have 65 thousand total 'splits' and

at 24bit I have 16.7 MILLION 'splits' total available.

In 24 bit, I'm utilizing 522,848 'splits'

and at 16bit, only 4,096!? So to get the same dynamic range in 16bit, I need to track at +18db DIGITAL!? Technically you only need to hit like I think Snow Lizard said, -48db in 24bit to use the full dynamic range perception-wise of 26bit.

Well that's ludicrous when my Firepod's supposed to have 22db of headroom instead of 40 and we all know what happens at 0db in digital so what the fuck does +18 sound like?

If that's right, which...Makes sense right now but I don't work well with numbers to begin with...

That should put this debate to an end; You have so much more dynamic range available in 24bit that tracking anywhere near as hot as possible is just superfluous for a lot of music considering that, in the end, modern rock music gets squashed to fuck anyways and your average human doesn't have such a nuanced ear. I can hear a 0.2 db change in something if I'm monitoring at normal listening levels, but most people cannot.

But how on earth does it make sense to track hot and use dynamics that average person won't pick up on, just to turn those tracks down so you won't be clipping the sum? And what happens deep down when you turn those tracks down in level to make it all fit only to compress and maximize the whole mix later? I would think it would be like taking a full resolution picture of something and making it smaller, then sampling it back up; won't it make things cloudier than just starting with a smaller picture and making it larger? Isn't that kind of like exporting a 16/44.1 320kbs MP3 from a 24/48.2 wav and then converting it back to full quality, or from the 320kbps MP3 to 96kbps?

Isn't it simpler and cleaner to make fewer changes in the end?

Am I right or am I just insane thinking that it hardly matters that you track hot at all in 24bit and that the reason this hullabaloo is ever spoken of is that 16bit audio has such a shitty dynamic range in comparison that you need to use all of your headroom because 24bit has 3x the levels of perception and some people still refuse to track in anything but 16/44.1 for whatever reason?
 
Last edited:
OK, now here's where *I* get confused; when one starts talking about bit depth as resolution.

How can one bit represent a static volume value - namely 6dB per bit - and at the same time have a dynamic volume resolution depending on which bit it is?

6dB per bit X 16 bits does indeed yield a theoretical dynamic range of 96dB.

and

6dB per bit X 24 bits does indeed yield a theoretical dynamic range of 144dB.

I see no increase in actual "resolution" there; it remains a resolution of 6dB per bit regardless of the word length. In that light, increasing word length does not increase "resolution" at all, it simply increases available dynamic range.

And conversely, if the resolution were indeed exponentionally dynamic as explained in the previous posts, one would never even come close to acheiving claimed dynamic range, because every extra bit would only travel half the volume range of the last bit. In other words, the theoretical dynamic range of 96dB for 16 bits would in reality only be a dynamic range of 6dB + 3dB + 1.5dB + 0.75dB + 0.375dB etc.... The entire dynamic range of a 16bit word would never even reach 12dB if that were the case. In fact, neither would 24 bits, or 32 bits, or 64 bits. They all would come increasingly closer to 12dB of dynamic range, but one could never actually get there.

What am I missing there?

G.
 
Last edited:
Clipping is the *failure* of the circuit. With digital, it's simple -- "Perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect, CLIP."

With analog, it's not nearly as simplistic -- "Perfect, decent, unfocused, grainy, audibly distorted, CLIP."

The above is particularly true for prosumer and a lot of solid state gear. Good pro tube gear and tape for example can have a different quality, more like "clean (with lower S/N), clean (best S/N), fat, obese, distorted". I think that's were a lot of the philosophy of "if you're not in the red, you're dead" comes from, especially when recording to tape.

For Rock sometimes a bit of distortion isn't necessarily a bad thing, it just has to be the appropriate amount and the right type to sound good. That's were experience and textbook engineering parts ways. You should know when you are breaking the rules though and not do it blindly or without responsibility for the consequences.
 
Agree. That's always been my understanding too.

But more so if you consider the human perception of loudness is more logarithmic than linear. That's why we use the decibel, a basically logarithmic (or is it antilogarithmic?) comparative scale.

That explains the fact that volume faders have a logarithmic taper which increases gain more severely the further they are pushed up to max. At the last 1/4 turn it's REALLY being turned up, because that's where our ears start to "compress" the range down. So the result is volume "appears" to increase smoothly as we turn up the fader. But in fact the power amp is really being asked to work in that highest 25% of the fader's range.

If we were needing to get more digital "resolution" of amplitude, to match hearing perception of loudness, it would be better to do so at the lower amplitudes, rather than the higher as that's where we are most sensitive to level changes.
That's my understanding anyway.

Tim (to clarify,responding to Glen's post #91 on resolution not the one above this one)
 
Last edited:
True, true...
okay, isn't the "headroom" of a preamp an measure of the room before all out clipping? If so than maybe there can be distortion before actual analog clipping occurs? Is this what the argument is about- whether there is distortion before clipping happens in analog?
That's generally the point, yes. And as mentioned, some gear is very "nice" about handling nasty levels while other gear is terrible even at line level.

Much of the time, that additional distortion and spectral imbalance isn't really noticeable until later stages -- EQ suddenly seems ineffective on certain sounds, compression sounds squishy, the mix seems to lack clarity and focus -- While track-by-track, it all sounds fine (until you notice how bad it sounds).
 
So am I correct in assuming it's more the other way? The later converter, probably I guess due to the huge extra demands a full potential 24 bit range places on analog signal chains, has a reduced sensitivity, leading to risk of the analog pre clipping before reaching 0dbFS.

At an engineering level it's perfectly understandable. Unless you can lower the voltage of the analog noise, for any given increase in dynamic range specification,(or bit rate) you have to go up and raise (effectively) undistorted output voltage, which translates essentially into higher positive and negative equipment rail voltages.
Still it's confusing. From an engineering standpoint, raising PS rail voltage rails is hardly rocket science. Surely if the sensitivity of converters has been lowered, why hasnt the undistorted output of pre's been raised by a complementary degree? Analog gear headroom (ie: undistorted output voltage) does not create a matching problem. It's just more headroom.

Perhaps it relates to equipment reference voltage standards. If so shouldnt the amp driving the converter be designed to clip at a higher output voltage?
That is, keep the same reference voltage (eg +4dbu) but design in more headroom in the output drive amp?


Again, your thoughts?

Cheers Tim
Do the math on the analog side.

Assume that 0dbVU = -20dbfs and 0dbVU is +4dbu.

In order to hit 0dbfs, you would need the preamp to output +24dbu. Good preamps can do that without hard clipping as long as we are talking about transients. Almost none of them will be able to output a sine wave (or any signal with no attack and long sustain) at that level without distortion.

That headroom is designed in to the system to catch these transients. The latest paradigm to make 0dbVU = -20dbfs is in response to the fact that most decent preamps can put out a +24dbu signal. (see how the numbers work out?) They are simply matching the highest possible output to the digital ceiling.

Gain staging is about matching levels.
 
OK, now here's where *I* get confused; when one starts talking about bit depth as resolution.

How can one bit represent a static volume value - namely 6dB per bit - and at the same time have a dynamic volume resolution depending on which bit it is?

6dB per bit X 16 bits does indeed yield a theoretical dynamic range of 96dB.

and

6dB per bit X 24 bits does indeed yield a theoretical dynamic range of 144dB.

I see no increase in actual "resolution" there; it remains a resolution of 6dB per bit regardless of the word length. In that light, increasing word length does not increase "resolution" at all, it simply increases available dynamic range.

And conversely, if the resolution were indeed exponentionally dynamic as explained in the previous posts, one would never even come close to acheiving claimed dynamic range, because every extra bit would only travel half the volume range of the last bit. In other words, the theoretical dynamic range of 96dB for 16 bits would in reality only be a dynamic range of 6dB + 3dB + 1.5dB + 0.75dB + 0.375dB etc.... The entire dynamic range of a 16bit word would never even reach 12dB if that were the case. In fact, neither would 24 bits, or 32 bits, or 64 bits. They all would come increasingly closer to 12dB of dynamic range, but one could never actually get there.

What am I missing there?

G.
You are missing the fact that the more bits you have, the more different volume values you can have. These extra volume values happen close to the zero crossing. (because the extra bits are added at the bottom) That gives you extra resolution as the signal goes from positive to negative (and back), and cuts down on the crossover distortion.
 
You are missing the fact that the more bits you have, the more different volume values you can have. These extra volume values happen close to the zero crossing. (because the extra bits are added at the bottom) That gives you extra resolution as the signal goes from positive to negative (and back), and cuts down on the crossover distortion.
Please help me out a bit more in getting a mental handle on this, because that still seems to beg the same question, but just in a different way. I still can't quite seem to reconcile a simultaneous equivalent of one bit equalling 6dB of dynamic range and the idea that every added bit adds a magnitude of finer resolution. Those two ideas seem mutually exclusive.

How can one bit be worth 6dB in range regardless of bit position AND AT THE SAME TIME have a different resolution in volume depending on it's distance away from the 1st bit?

And Tim brings up an extra finer point to the mix too. Even if one tries accounting for the fact that decibels are indeed measured on a logarithmic scale, that still is quite different from the exponential scale defined by the binary math.

I just can't get a handle on those apparent dichotomies.

Sorry if this strays a bit from the main topic, but it is related, and - unless or until I can figure out how to reconcile them - it does leave some important loose ends on a good understanding of how this all actually works.

G.
 
Last edited:
I still can't quite seem to reconcile a simultaneous equivalent of one bit equalling 6dB of dynamic range and the idea that every added bit adds a magnitude of finer resolution. Those two ideas seem mutually exclusive.

They are G. one bit is approx 6 db regardless of the wordlength in a fixed point system. 24 bit just spreads this interval over a wider range than 16 bit. One is a 5 lb bag, the other a 10 lb bag but the stuff in it stays the same.

OTOH floating point does change the resolution based on level of the audio it's going to represent so that it can cover an even wider range. It's a rubber 10 lb bag that stretches.

To Jay's point it's not that there's finer resolution at zero crossing, it's just that less stuff falls out of the bag (or gets masked in dither). Hence better accuracy.
 
Last edited:
Hey Glen,

You're losing me with the 12dB of dynamic range thing. All the bits travel 6 dB range, but as you have less bits, the steps are much larger.

An example of 8 bit audio would be something like the video game, Space Invaders. (My age is starting to show here). Anyone familiar with these old video games knows the audio quality of these things is pretty much useless for decent fidelity.

A word length operates as a string of binary numbers. Each bit represents a dynamic range of 6 dB. No problem.

The way a word length works is that the last bit, let's say the 16th bit in 16 bit audio, has the advantage of having 15 other bits to work with to develop different combinations of numbers to come up with.

So let's say you have one bit. The -90 to -96 range. It's like a straight wire. Either you have a 6 dB signal or no signal. No chance for any variation. After that it can be thought of that each 6 dB range can be controlled like a detented pot. The number of detents keeps doubling because of the combinations of different numbers you can come up with, with the longer word lengths. So from -96 to 0, it goes:


6 (dB) x 1 (@ 1 bit).

The next bit is 3 x 2. So the 3 dB (possible variations in level) times 2 gives you the next range. 3 x 2 is 6, plus the 6 that you started with, gives you 12 dB total range, but only in 4 steps, total. So it'd be like -87, -90, -96 or no signal. Those are massive steps!

So the 2 bit binary word could be written like this:

00
10
01
11

Those are the only 4 combinations with 2 bits.

3 bits gives 8 combinations total:

000 (no bits)
100 (1 bit)
010 (2 bits)
110 (2 bits)
001 (3 bits)
101 (3 bits)
011 (3 bits)
111 (3 bits)

notice that there are 4 combinations (half of the 8 total) that use the 3rd bit.

4 bits gives 16 combinations and so forth. It keeps doubling.

so it'd be like:

6 (dB) x 1 = 6 dB plus:

3 x 2 = 6 dB (12 total now) plus:

1.5 x 4
0.75 x 8 (4th bit here)
0.375 x 16
0.1875 x 32
0.09375 x 64
0.046875 x 128 (8th bit here, still equals 6 dB range)

So there can be 128 divisions, or detents or whatever in the 6 dB range where the 8th bit is the most significant bit. It needs the other 7 bits to be able to express this number. It's half the total of possible combinations of 0's and 1's with only 8 bits in the string. So in 16 bit audio, this would mean that all the other bits above that are set to zero. So the audio level would be around -50 dB, or thereabouts. Give or take. In 0.046875 dB increments.

Each bit always represents 6 dB. As the word length keeps increasing with each new bit, the number of combinations keeps doubling in finer and finer increments and the audio gets louder. Taken the other way, the increments get larger and the audio is quieter.


Does this make sense?


sl
 
Back
Top