Let's Talk Les Pauls

  • Thread starter Thread starter Zaphod B
  • Start date Start date
For what its worth, I own a 1998 Classic. My main reasons for going with the Classic was the hotter pickups and the slim-taper 60's neck.

At the time the 60's neck wasn't available on the Standards, and that slim neck is a must for me. I always hated the clubby-feeling necks on LPs but the 60s neck was a great fit for me.

As for the pickups, some say they suck, some say they rock. I'm somewhere inbetween on that debate because I think they sound fine but I don't have much experience with other pickups in LPs. All I know is that when I played the Classics in the guitar shop next to the Standards, the Classics had more of what I consider that classic LP growl. It just comes out when I pick hard, I dunno how to explain it.
 
Consider a Deluxe (either one of the new ones, or an old one). Mini humbuckers are cool. I have a Les Paul Special with mini's.
Just a thought!
 
I have a chinese Gibsun Les Paul Surprise, not a bad guitar for the money.
 
Check out the LPF - Les Paul Forum - for all things Lester. Every anal LP motherfucker and his little brother is over there throwing his two cents around. There's some bright guys too.

If you really must have brandy new you'll just have to go to as many shops as stock 'em and play every one you can. One of 'em is bound to bite ya'. Bring lots of plastic. I've heard that the '57 reissue goldtop is good value.

If value is more important than a few dings the Norlin-era Lesters are still under-appreciated. My "82 Custom is way sweet and I snagged it for $1500. There's plenty of those left but the prices are creeping up. Probably be nearer two grand now.

Good luck. Check out http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/index.php?s=


lou
 
Zaphod B said:
So, I guess the first question is, what does the Custom Shop bring to the table in terms of quality?

The some of the Custom Shop models, and the Supremes, have chambered bodies, while the less expensive models don't. How do the chambered bodies flavor the sound?

Is it fair to compare, say, a Custom Shop 1960 Standard with a Supreme in terms of sound and overall quality and attention to detail?

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera........

I haven't done any hands-on research yet - that will come in time. Just preliminary tire kicking for now. Thanks for any comments.
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The non custom shop les pauls are weight relieved don't have a long tennon neck joint. Despite the weight relief, they will almost all be heavier than the custom shop guitars. Les paul customs are generally the heaviest of the les pauls.

the pickups in the standards and classics are hotter than those in the reissues. the 498t that's in the supreme may also be hotter, I don't know about the 490r. The classics have 500t's and 496r's in them. they are extremely hot and good for metal and punk.......I don't imagine they'd be good for you. the usa shop guitars are all multi piece bodies now. In fact, sometime in the last couple years I saw a 3 piece sg standard.

The chanbered body of the supremes is different than the weight relief chambers in the standards and classics. they are supposed to be designed to sound good. I personally wasn't a big fan of them though.

The custom shop guitars aren't weight relieved. they use the best looking and lightest weight of the wood that gibson recieves (with the 59's getting the best of the best).

Basically, gibsons quality control is awful in both the usa shop and the custom shop. a couple years ago the custom shop had issues they let slide, but was better than the usa shop. Now they're pretty equal. If you really are wanting a Les paul you need to just get out and play a ton of them. I looked at les pauls for a good year or 2 and looked at like 15 pauls the day that I ended up buying mine.

if you end up going mail order with your guitar though, http://www.guitarsale.com is a pretty good shop to buy from. The guy running it used to own the store I got my gibsons from. In fact I was looking at their site and they still have a paul that I remember playing when it was in the store in Kennewick. He ended up selling his domain name and all the gibsons he had at the store (a few hundred) to music123 and went to work for them. Anyway, guitarsale is part of music123, but unlike music123 they are very hands on.
 
Consider a Deluxe

I have a '70 Deluxe I bought in '97. It has a set of Seymour Duncan mini-humbuckers in it (the original magnets died) and it is by far the best sounding LP I've ever heard...but then, I've never been a fan of the bassy sound of the full-size humbuckers.

The minis have more treble, and to my ear, a lot more tunefulness, making them more versatile. I play mine mostly with a bottleneck, where a full tone is essential.
 
Had a early 70s DeLuxe for a while..... some fool offered me WAY to much money so I sold it. It had a slim neck and the minis sounded great. punchy mids and highs, and it seemed to respond better(more tonal variety) with volume knob adjustments. Havent priced em lately, but they seemed undervalued to me a few years ago. SCRATCH THAT!!! Just checked Ebay LOL!!!!!!!
 
Zaphod B said:
How do those mini's sound, Beez?
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Check out "A cold empty place" in my sig (first song). That's one of my favorite examples of my pickups.Nice highs, lots of sustain.
My mini's are Allparts, which are inexpensive(50 buck each, or so) but I like them. They came to me unpotted though, and used to squeal with really high gain settings. I read up on potting and dipped the fuckers in wax. Not nearly as microphonic now. I don't know how these pickups match up with Gibson minis.
 
I know a dude who spent the big money on a custom, and he said that it was worth every penny. Not because of the difference in quality or anything, but because he was able to get EXACTLY what he wanted. They screwed up on quite a few details because he forgot to specify them, and apparently Gibson rectified them within a month to his specs (here's the kicker) free of charge. If I had $4-5k to blow, it'd probably be on a custom Gibby...


Eh, who am I kidding, no I wouldn't.
But still, that's pretty damn cool.
 
Flamin Lip said:
Had a early 70s DeLuxe for a while..... spunchy mids and highs, and it seemed to respond better(more tonal variety) with volume knob adjustments.
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beezelbubba said:
Check out "A cold empty place" in my sig (first song). That's one of my favorite examples of my pickups.Nice highs, lots of sustain.
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Beez, that sounds sweet. Are you using the same pickup setting in all the tracks, or am I hearing varous settings? Anyway, I get what you mean about being punchy in mids and highs. It's a really melodic sounding guitar. :)
 
donkeystyle said:
The non custom shop les pauls are weight relieved don't have a long tennon neck joint. Despite the weight relief, they will almost all be heavier than the custom shop guitars. Les paul customs are generally the heaviest of the les pauls.
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I just realised that part of what I said didn't make a lot of sense. here's how it should have read:

The non custom shop les pauls are weight relieved and don't have a long tennon neck joint. Despite the weight relief, they will almost all be heavier than the custom shop guitars. Les paul customs (from the USA shop) are generally the heaviest of the les pauls.
 
Zaphod B said:
Thanks all, good stuff. :)

I do want the slim tapered '60s neck, because I have small hands, and even getting around on a Fender-length scale is a challenge.

I guess it all comes down to the laying on of hands, and finding a guitar that speaks to you.

I know Gorty likes his Customs - maybe he'll check in .
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I have a 60's classic which I am more than happy with - with two caveats.
I did have it professionally set up... (which most people would do anyway)..
and I changed pick ups to seymour duncan antiquities..
They suit me cos they are not so high output - i am not so much a fan of the newer high output gibson pickups... with that being said I love this guitar...
it's amazing.... i had a LP studio and it was a mudraker compared to this thing...
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
Check out the LPF - Les Paul Forum - for all things Lester. Every anal LP motherfucker and his little brother is over there throwing his two cents around. There's some bright guys too. Check out http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/index.php?s=

lou
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Hey, Lou, I did check out the LP forums and your description is right on the money. :D

Not only are they anal motherfuckers, but they all seem to have this "Gibson (the company) is fucking us" mentality, while loving the product. Example: Production LPs are now "chambered" rather than "weight-relieved" - OMG, LPs aren't solid bodies anymore!! Why isn't Gibson telling anyone!! And if the LPs sound better this way, why won't the Historics be chambered??!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Etc., etc., etc.....;)

Still, there is a ton of useful information there, and I appreciate the link. :)
 
Zaphod B said:
Hey, Lou, I did check out the LP forums and your description is right on the money. :D

Not only are they anal motherfuckers, but they all seem to have this "Gibson (the company) is fucking us" mentality, while loving the product. Example: Production LPs are now "chambered" rather than "weight-relieved" - OMG, LPs aren't solid bodies anymore!! Why isn't Gibson telling anyone!! And if the LPs sound better this way, why won't the Historics be chambered??!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Etc., etc., etc.....;)

Still, there is a ton of useful information there, and I appreciate the link. :)
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chambered rather than weight relieved? wtf? i dont' know a lot about guitars, but wouldn't that really mess with the sound?
 
Nicole_Rose said:
chambered rather than weight relieved? wtf? i dont' know a lot about guitars, but wouldn't that really mess with the sound?
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Yes, and I think that's the point. Some of the guys on the LP forum are saying that it makes for a less "tight" sounding guitar - a little smoother, with more sustain.

Here's an email that supposedly came from Gibson Customer support:

"Gibson started weight relieving Les Paul models in the early 1980's, but has gone to a new weight relief pattern in 2007. Here is some information on the new weight relief pattern:

The weight relief pattern has changed for 2007. We have modified the original swiss cheese hole pattern to something that has a purpose other than to lighten up the guitar. Originally, the holes were cut in a pattern that maximized the available space and did not take into consideration tone, balance, and sustain. So, we felt that a scientific approach was best if we were to change the pattern. We knew that we could now measure frequency output of the guitar and also determine positive or negative effects of any changes to the internal routing. So, we initially approached the project from the perspective of just improving the placement of the original holes. As we began testing, we noticed that when we moved the holes closer together, sound and sustain improved. We then decided to try moving the holes so close together that they actually created one big hole instead of several small ones. The area volume was the same but the improvement of sustain and output was greater. This drove us to start playing with the actual shape and size of a single large chamber and then to multiple chambers, strategically placed inside the guitar. We couldn’t do much with the control pockets and pickup pockets so we decided to focus on all of the mass and area around those routings. After several months of testing, the current sonic tuning pattern emerged. This pattern works in all Les Pauls and gives us a much better sounding instrument, sustain is improved, and as an added benefit, weight has been reduced by 20%-30%. Sustain can be improved two ways; by creating rigidity and by sound reverberation. While reducing weight further wasn’t our goal, it definitely should be received as a positive side affect to our real goal; giving reason to our original weight relief pattern of holes


Best regards,
Jon Sutherland
Gibson Customer Service
1-800-4GIBSON
service@gibson.com
 
the problem is someone like me doesn't know enough to know if that's true or not. from their point of view they're trying to sell guitars so i'm not sure if i'd trust that. oh well, if you get a chambered body LP let us know :)
 
Nicole_Rose said:
the problem is someone like me doesn't know enough to know if that's true or not. from their point of view they're trying to sell guitars so i'm not sure if i'd trust that. oh well, if you get a chambered body LP let us know :)
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I'm not sure how I'll know. Until Gibson puts out some official information on where the production breakpoint is (if there is a clear one - there may not be), even the retailers won't know.
 
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