another FRET BUZZ mystery

[CoolCat]

ever get pissed at yourself for selling something?
then things turn around and you probably didn't need to sell it really?

then you go back to GC in a hurry to get it back and its already sold....

and then you start looking to buy another one, but its twice what you sold yours at, so replacing what you already had is actually costing twice as much?

yet nothing else seems to take its place?

all the justifying and bullshit, never really replaces the one you had?

and then you find yourself in a Pawn Shop wondering "what? this is not my life? how did I get here? why am I holding this used battered piece of shit? I used to have a real guitar?"


oh, yeah I got a wired fret buzz thing going on.

only 2 frets buzz, only two strings on those two frets buzz.

6&13 fret
D&G string

when I raise the string it gets better but the action sucks, when I lower the strings for the action it plays better but bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's....fret buzzing sucks.

 

[timthetortoise]

Yes.......

 

[punkin]

Sounds like time to take it to a pro for a set up and/or evaluation. Any chance the neck is twisted? I'd take it in.

 

[CoolCat]

well it plays really nice on all the other frets? would a twisted neck only hit a couple frets and only 2 strings out of 6?

its intonation is good, but when I play unplugged I can definatley hear these 2 strings D&G, buzz out when I hit a note on the 6th fret and 13th fret only?
very strange, imo.

thru an amplifier, you can't hear it really...i'm being picky, but there are some guitars that don't do this. A Squire and the Red US Strandard I had was zero fret buzz.

fret buzz on Only 2 frets though....

how can that happen?

and if the buzzing fret was lowered would it just go down the neck...to the next fret, then it buzzes, then lower/file down that fret....then the next one buzzes? on,on,and on...

fhk... its a cheap guitar, it has to stand on its own.
I'm not putting money into a $100 guitar.

but then I wouldn't want to have to put money into a expensive guitar to stop its fret's frrom buzzing either? hmmm

 

[muttley600]

well it plays really nice on all the other frets? would a twisted neck only hit a couple frets and only 2 strings out of 6?

its intonation is good, but when I play unplugged I can definatley hear these 2 strings D&G, buzz out when I hit a note on the 6th fret and 13th fret only?
very strange, imo.

thru an amplifier, you can't hear it really...i'm being picky, but there are some guitars that don't do this. A Squire and the Red US Strandard I had was zero fret buzz.

fret buzz on Only 2 frets though....

how can that happen?

and if the buzzing fret was lowered would it just go down the neck...to the next fret, then it buzzes, then lower/file down that fret....then the next one buzzes? on,on,and on...

fhk... its a cheap guitar, it has to stand on its own.
I'm not putting money into a $100 guitar.

but then I wouldn't want to have to put money into a expensive guitar to stop its fret's frrom buzzing either? hmmm

Most likely a high fret one or more likely two frets up from where the fret buzzes. Lowering the high fret should not chase the problem down the neck, All frets should be the same hight. If you not happy dressing frets yourself take it to a decent repair guy, its not a big fix if thats all the problem is. Its highly unlikely to be a twisted neck.

 

[CoolCat]

Most likely a high fret one or more likely two frets up from where the fret buzzes. Lowering the high fret should not chase the problem down the neck, All frets should be the same hight. If you not happy dressing frets yourself take it to a decent repair guy, its not a big fix if thats all the problem is. Its highly unlikely to be a twisted neck.

damn I'm getting pumped up...thanks.

it just needs a tiny bit of lowering. I'll try this if I don't have to "chase it" down the neck!!

If I push really hard on the 6 & 13 fret, press down hard the buzz gets less too.
So I figure pressing down hard makes the angle deflection increase?

anyway...so good info.. I'll try it very gently taking the frets down...just in the middle where the D & G strings are.


yes 2 frets "up" the neck, not the one right bedside where the finger is...
but the next one by the "empty" fret?

I gotta get some dressing tools. I'm pretty good with fine alignments and calipers...once I know what I'm doing!

 

[muttley600]

damn I'm getting pumped up...thanks.

it just needs a tiny bit of lowering. I'll try this if I don't have to "chase it" down the neck!!

If I push really hard on the 6 & 13 fret, press down hard the buzz gets less too.
So I figure pressing down hard makes the angle deflection increase?

anyway...so good info.. I'll try it very gently taking the frets down...just in the middle where the D & G strings are.


yes 2 frets "up" the neck, not the one right bedside where the finger is...
but the next one by the "empty" fret?

I gotta get some dressing tools. I'm pretty good with fine alignments and calipers...once I know what I'm doing!

I've covered localised fret dressing quite a few times in the past if you do a search. The first thing you need to do is find where the fret is high and which one's. You'll need a small good straight edge for this. It will rock where the frets are high. To level them you'll need a fine flat file or diamond stone, some method of crowning after you have leveled them and also some basic tools to re-polish the fret. All this has been discussed at length in the past. You can do it with easily available tools. Even the basic set can cost you the same as the repair might cost so if your only doing one guitar consider getting it done.

The very first thing you need to do is asses the neck to make sure it is true and has the correct relief. Only after this should you start looking for the high spots. Take your time and don't do anything until you are sure you have found the problem. Some people then like to remove the relief before proceeding. It will depend entirely on what tools you have and you level of experience. Go slow and take your time. Its an easy job for someone with experience, unfortunately that is the only tool required you can't buy.

 

[Milnoque]

A loose fret can cause this problem. Check carefully your fretboard may not need dressing.

 

[muttley600]

A loose fret can cause this problem. Check carefully your fretboard may not need dressing.

Highly unlikely a loose fret will cause buzzing on only one string, but as I said

Take your time and don't do anything until you are sure you have found the problem.

.

 

[goldtopchas]

It could be a "popped" fret. When you find the fret that is high, look very carefully where the fret meets the fretboard. If it looks like it is popped up, you might be able to gently tap it down with a hammer that has a couple leyers of masking tape over the head. Be sure to support the neck and/or body directly underneath the area you're tapping.(Don't let it rest on the headstock).

Also, you would be surprised how many "fret " issues are solved by simply changing a bad string. If it has a kink in it from being bumped against something(mic stand, amp, etc...) it will mimic the same symptoms.
Wouldn't hurt to check that first. Good luck.

 

[KaveKong]

Save up and get a Carvin. Best custom guitars on the planet, in my opinion.

The only guitar I'd rather have would be a top of the line Les Paul.

 

[muttley600]

It could be a "popped" fret. When you find the fret that is high, look very carefully where the fret meets the fretboard. If it looks like it is popped up, you might be able to gently tap it down with a hammer that has a couple leyers of masking tape over the head. Be sure to support the neck and/or body directly underneath the area you're tapping.(Don't let it rest on the headstock).

Also, you would be surprised how many "fret " issues are solved by simply changing a bad string. If it has a kink in it from being bumped against something(mic stand, amp, etc...) it will mimic the same symptoms.
Wouldn't hurt to check that first. Good luck.

Guys if it buzzes on just one string it HIGHLY UNLIKEY that it is a loose/popped fret. For a start for it to just buzz on the D and G it is going to have to pop up in the middle of the fingerboard, that just aint going to happen. Normally loose or popped frets are going to buzz on the top E and occasionally on the bottom E right up the neck. If you can see space under a fret in the centre it was like that out of the factory ninety nine times out of a hundred. If you do have a loose you need more than just tapping it back in to make it stay put. Most repair guys will wick in some titebond and clamp it down. In severe cases the fret needs to be removed and the tang opened up to help it seat correctly.

COOLCAT. Get a small perfectly straight edge and find the fret that is high in each case. as I said this is most likely to be the first or secound fret above the fret you are experiencing buzzing on. Have a good look at the fret and report back, whatever it is it's fixable. My experience would tell me that you have a couple of frets that were not dressed correctly when the guitar left the factory. I see hundreds of these setups each year on everything from low end Chinese imports to high end brands. Popped frets are very rare indeed these days because of the way the neck is put together.

 

[CoolCat]

used a small metal scale as the straight edge, which is the best I could find.
It wasn't easy to see a high fret, with the eyes looking for a gap?

What seemed to work easier was only concentrating on 2 or 3 frets at a time and sliding the metal ruler and then there was a high fret noticed when the scale would "bump" into it, stopping; The tiny corner of the metal scale would "bump/stop". Is this a common method?

it was such a small height difference, <.5mm.

the bumps were at the fret buzz locations...but i couldn't really check all of the frets until the "bump" is lowered?

Maybe some calipers would give some numbers?

ok, whats the secret... how does one remove that tiny of a bump with precision?

if its FREE, count me in.

 

[muttley600]

used a small metal scale as the straight edge, which is the best I could find.
It wasn't easy to see a high fret, with the eyes looking for a gap?

What seemed to work easier was only concentrating on 2 or 3 frets at a time and sliding the metal ruler and then there was a high fret noticed when the scale would "bump" into it, stopping; The tiny corner of the metal scale would "bump/stop". Is this a common method?

it was such a small height difference, <.5mm.

the bumps were at the fret buzz locations...but i couldn't really check all of the frets until the "bump" is lowered?

Maybe some calipers would give some numbers?

ok, whats the secret... how does one remove that tiny of a bump with precision?

if its FREE, count me in.

You need a small straight edge so your about right. I have loads of really small cabinet scrapers that are perfectly straight. A stanley blade is a good alternative.

For a start on how search "fret dressing"

Begin by reading this

 

[CoolCat]

whooa. ..after reading the thread, thats mainly dressing the entire f-board.

lets pretend only the higher fret is buzzing, 13th fret, D&G
(its the worst one.)

whats the best tool to just file it a tiny-bit to stop the bzz? Flat Diamond stone or the sandpaper.................. or??

i never realized the frets are flattened then curved/crowned, dressed.


I don't know, like someone said on another post about recording...

we spend years learning how to play, but yet think we can be a professional <enter skill> in a week.

fret repair dewd, in a week.

yeah, going too low on a fret would be real ugly in my case!

 

[muttley600]

whooa. ..after reading the thread, thats mainly dressing the entire f-board.

lets pretend only the higher fret is buzzing, 13th fret, D&G
(its the worst one.)

whats the best tool to just file it a tiny-bit to stop the bzz? Flat Diamond stone or the sandpaper.................. or??

i never realized the frets are flattened then curved/crowned, dressed.


I don't know, like someone said on another post about recording...

we spend years learning how to play, but yet think we can be a professional <enter skill> in a week.

fret repair dewd, in a week.

yeah, going too low on a fret would be real ugly in my case!

The process for a single high fret even if your just taking off a bit under one string is the same. The advice I always give if your determined to do it yourself is to get hold of a few junkers and have a go on them first. If your only likely to do one guitar or a few a year, save yourself the time and get it done by a pro. The correct tools can cost as much as the repair and some.

 

[MCI2424]

well it plays really nice on all the other frets? would a twisted neck only hit a couple frets and only 2 strings out of 6?

its intonation is good, but when I play unplugged I can definatley hear these 2 strings D&G, buzz out when I hit a note on the 6th fret and 13th fret only?
very strange, imo.

thru an amplifier, you can't hear it really...i'm being picky, but there are some guitars that don't do this. A Squire and the Red US Strandard I had was zero fret buzz.

fret buzz on Only 2 frets though....

how can that happen?

and if the buzzing fret was lowered would it just go down the neck...to the next fret, then it buzzes, then lower/file down that fret....then the next one buzzes? on,on,and on...

fhk... its a cheap guitar, it has to stand on its own.
I'm not putting money into a $100 guitar.

but then I wouldn't want to have to put money into a expensive guitar to stop its fret's frrom buzzing either? hmmm

You may have 2 high frets. It just needs fret levelling and a dressing.

 

[CoolCat]

The correct tools can cost as much as the repair and some.

yeah this is a common issue with a lot of DIY.

one thing is the fun of learning how to do it...

but in my case, it ain't my business and will be a once in every several years thing.

I do have access to a flatstone, a tiny white one from work.

I need to read some more too. I understand filing it down, in tiny increments being very cautious.

but I don't get the terminology, dressing...crowning... I highly doubt I'll have those kind of tools.

and if I go too low, I'll be really pissed at myself...

as far as practicing on a junker...I do have some old trashed out acoustics, real pieces of shit...hmmm? very good, that issue is covered.

 

[muttley600]

yeah this is a common issue with a lot of DIY.

one thing is the fun of learning how to do it...

but in my case, it ain't my business and will be a once in every several years thing.

I do have access to a flatstone, a tiny white one from work.

I need to read some more too. I understand filing it down, in tiny increments being very cautious.

but I don't get the terminology, dressing...crowning... I highly doubt I'll have those kind of tools.

and if I go too low, I'll be really pissed at myself...

as far as practicing on a junker...I do have some old trashed out acoustics, real pieces of shit...hmmm? very good, that issue is covered.

Terms, dressing just refers to the process as a whole. One the frets are installed they need to be levelled, rounded/shaped and polished. Dredssing would be a term for all three.

Crowning refers to reshaping the fret once they have been stoned or filed level. You levell them by removing the top with the stone or file. This leaves a flat to the fret top. you need to round this the the correct round profile. This is crowning. Once this is done you will need to remove all the file and stone marks by polishing them.

How small is your wetstone and is have a fairly fine cut? Are you sure it is flat ?

You are unlikely to remove too much if you have identified where the high spots are. In this you would work by filing or stoning gently across three frets with the high spot in the centre. You will find that you remove little from the adjacent frets but have a larger flat appear on the high fret.

You can recrown them with good quality needle files but it requires a steady hand. Once you have them recrowned you use very fine wet and dry paper 400 then 600 paper to take out the scratches use it dry and work up and down the fret board. You can go finer but I have other ways of final polishing. In your case something like silver cloth or a very fine brass polish will do the final polishing. Dont forget to mask off the fingerboard with masking tape to avoid damage to that and dirt getting everywhere.

Practice on junkers before attempting it on a prized guitar. I always recon about a hundred or so jobs and you'd be getting good at it

 

[CoolCat]

thanks for the definitions..

Why crown? I mean if the string clears and doesn't buzz..what does crowning do that makes it a requirement?

I have a fine alumina block, small one. we were doing the thousandths/mils on a tool years ago, for planarity, and it was left in my tool kit.
it is very fine and should still be flat, though I don't recall the specs. white colored ceramic block 1/4" or less.

reading I think I'll mark the spots and just go really really slow, like over days.

I'll practice a bit and then do the 13th fret area just in case I screw up there isn't an entire neck of frets to lower!

a steady hand?....Guitar Luthiers don't drink double shot coffee when filing? haha