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Thread: Room Measurements...Can I stop now?

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    Room Measurements...Can I stop now?

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    I've been reworking my recording room and I'm stuffed. I'm not sure if I could build another bass trap or measure my room one more time. I've managed to control the low end (45hz-400hz) to within an 8db range and my frequency response looks reasonably flat at 1/24 or 1/48 smoothing. My waterfall indicates only limited ringing at or under 55hz, and much of that can probably be attributed to the noise floor. And the impulse response seems okay--At least judging from standards that I can discern online.

    Of course, the room is dead as a doornail (see Topt) and I know this irritates some folks. Personally, I like things a little comatose, and this may be largely unavoidable in a small room setting. I may start adding slats or perhaps exploring diffusion, but I think I need a break. Besides, I think I need to record something before I become a complete engineering geek.

    So...what say you? Should I push on in the hope of achieving +/-6b? Is there such a thing as too much bass trapping? Will I die from 703-related cancer? Should I start a Go Fund Me page to raise money to buy a half dozen GIK Scopus T40 tuned traps to attack the low end ringing which is probably noise? And what about the other end of the spectrum? Should I even care?
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    I went through that same madness a couple of summers ago when I was building my big bass traps.
    Ran the REW tests over, and over, and over, and over...and OK..that's enough now!

    Since they are movable bass traps, meant for a few uses...I moved them around the studio and tried a dozen or two positions, with minor adjustments...and did multiple REW measurements every time.

    Yeah, I saw differences, same as you have...but in most cases, as I adjusted to improve one thing, the measurement would get worse in another area...and it was really small stuff. I mean...there were only a couple of deeper/higher nulls/nodes that I was chasing, and once I was able to get them better balanced out...I just went with the best average, and the positions that also made the most sense. I think people sometimes go insane and just stuff the shit out of their rooms with treatment, only to improve things by 10-15%...because at the end of the day, the physical space doesn't change, and that has the biggest effect, and not 2-3 more traps here-n-there.

    Now as I get ready to build a new studio...I'm really looking forward to doing all the REW measurements and positioning traps all over again......NOT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by miroslav View Post


    I went through that same madness a couple of summers ago when I was building my big bass traps.
    Ran the REW tests over, and over, and over, and over...and OK..that's enough now!
    My only regret is that I didn't keep a running log of the cost (including time) involved in the process. That way I could have come up with a series of econometric measures showing the marginal cost of each change or improvement. If I had to guess, I would estimate that it costs roughly $100-$200 dollars per db of improvement. And this doesn't factor in the treatments that simply didn't work or couldn't be repurposed. I did all the work myself and I even canabalized a few of the traps to build new ones. And, still, the bills just kept adding up. It was a good experience and I learned a lot but I'm with you on repeating the process. No thanks. Moving a waterfall is like, well, moving a waterfall. It might be easier (and cheaper) to move Niagra Falls.

    On the other hand, it's hard to imagine putting a room together without measurement. I tried by following all the usual suggestions regarding placement. Eight foot by six inch 703 traps straddling the corners, panels at the first reflection points, a cloud at the mix position, etc, and I thought I was at least 80 percent there. It turned out that I wasn't even close. And that's a scary thought, especially for the uninitiated who build based on theory and stop short of testing.

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    Yeah...do the initial measurements (when your room is full of gear, not empty)...add some traps...measure again...add some more...measure again...
    ...then call it a day, and get back to the music.

    The pros building multi-million dollar studios for top-shelf clients...they can afford to tweak things to absolute perfection, especially if they are building from the ground up, because then you have full control of all the elements, and even then, things don't work out perfectly.
    At the home studio level...it's like pissing into the wind, and hoping you can avoid the blowback!

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    LOL. Saturday morning I'm going back in. I just upgraded my monitors to a pair of Adam A7x's. Mostly, as a treat for spending so much time and insulation trying to get the room to sound right.

    Logic tells me that when I measure the room I will probably get very similar results. Although you never know. My old monitors don't have quite the same range as the A7x's and they are at least 15 years old. So they could also have performance issues. The crossover frequency is about the same (2.5k and 2.6k) but I'll let the numbers speak for themselves. Hopefully, I won't have to redecorate.

    Then I get to spend a couple of days burning-in the new monitors and listening to reference material. After that, I guess I should measure again. But I swear, that's the end of the line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwillis45 View Post
    I've been reworking my recording room and I'm stuffed. I'm not sure if I could build another bass trap or measure my room one more time. I've managed to control the low end (45hz-400hz) to within an 8db range and my frequency response looks reasonably flat at 1/24 or 1/48 smoothing. My waterfall indicates only limited ringing at or under 55hz, and much of that can probably be attributed to the noise floor. And the impulse response seems okay--At least judging from standards that I can discern online.

    Of course, the room is dead as a doornail (see Topt) and I know this irritates some folks. Personally, I like things a little comatose, and this may be largely unavoidable in a small room setting. I may start adding slats or perhaps exploring diffusion, but I think I need a break. Besides, I think I need to record something before I become a complete engineering geek.

    So...what say you? Should I push on in the hope of achieving +/-6b? Is there such a thing as too much bass trapping? Will I die from 703-related cancer? Should I start a Go Fund Me page to raise money to buy a half dozen GIK Scopus T40 tuned traps to attack the low end ringing which is probably noise? And what about the other end of the spectrum? Should I even care?

    you gotta know when to hold and when to fold them

    you have measured enough

    now go make music

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr average View Post
    you gotta know when to hold and when to fold them

    you have measured enough

    now go make music
    Good philosophy and I take it to heart. I've been recording through the whole process. I just haven't been able to record at the same pace. Measuring and building is a massive time suck.

    Still, I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't take one last set of measurements to look at the impact of the new speakers. It seems like a potentially important variable and it's just one last dose of REW heroin. I swear I'm going to rehab as soon as I'm done.

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    D,
    If you are so inclined, I would be interested in seeing a pic of the final product that produced those REW results. Mostly, for me, to see how your placement(s) are interacting to produce those flat results.
    Dale

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaleVO View Post
    D,
    If you are so inclined, I would be interested in seeing a pic of the final product that produced those REW results. Mostly, for me, to see how your placement(s) are interacting to produce those flat results.
    Dale
    There is a post somewhere in this sub forum called "Studio pics."

    Studio Pics

    The photos don't really show everything that's in the room. But you will get an idea. Keep in mind that this is just one 20x20x8 garage. Other rooms with other dimensions need other treatment approaches.

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    Not surprisingly, the new results are not too far off the originals posted above--at least for the low end under 250 hz or so. And that's a good thing. Part of me was fearing the new test, thinking that I just spent too much money on new monitors only to get a worse result. Of course, I'll probably repeat the test after the speakers are burned in. Again, I don't really expect too much difference. But a variable is a variable.
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