"Song Demos" With Just One Vocal, One Instrument: Can It Work Anymore??

M

Mike Freze

New member
In the old days, great singer/songwriters (solo) often sold their songs with just their vocals and guitar or vocal and piano. What they sold was the song itself. Of course, the song had to be GREAT: commercial, tightly constructed, great hook, great lyrics and melody, and so on. Is that possible anymore?

The danger with this is so many other writers send out polished demos with multiple instruments, vocal harmonies, orchestral sounds, effects, etc.

The downside of using more than one instrument or vocal to sell a great song: a professional record producer/publisher/A&R person is trained to hear a basic, great song that can work with many different types of instruments, harmonies, effects, etc. If the song itself is there, you can do all kinds of things with it and it will cross over. Egos (and experience) involved, seems like they would "hear" what they could put to the song. If what you lay down (even 3-4 instruments) isn't right for what they want to hear, it may paint you in a narrow corner on selling that song. Maybe the wrong instruments for the type of song they are hearing, maybe not great musicianship, and so on.

Of course, this is different if you are a full band that is promoting itself as a live act that records original tunes. You have to have more on a demo, then. But what about the pure songwriter that just wants to draw attention to the raw, GREAT song?

Maybe those days are gone. But if I were a record producer and heard a one vocal and guitar version of "By The Time I Get To Phoenix" (Glen Campbell), I would hear a big hit just from that performance because of how good the song is at it stands. This could apply to non-ballads/slow songs as well: send me a raw recording of "My Best Friend's Girl" (Cars) and I would hear it too, even though there's a lot going on in the finished product.



Mike Freze
 
Those days are not gone. There's still room for great solo songwriters; see Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits and John Hyatt and their continues success as some of the greater living singer/songwriters on the planet.

And one thing that has not changed at the core is the need for material fpr producers to pick up and decide to marry with another performer, a la the Brill Building days, except maybe a bit less production line-ish than that.

G.
 
Really good question. I'm torn here. There's been a recent tradition of record companies putting bonus tracks on CDs and these are often outtakes or the basic vocal and one instrument demo of songs we already know and possibly love. And herein lies the key - these are generally songs we already know and possibly love so it's hard to gauge whether or not we would have felt the same way had we not been familiar with the version we know.
Having said that, I've never heard George Harrison's "All things must pass" on the album of the same name. I'd never heard the song until I heard his demo of it for the Beatles (once called 'the wisest song the Beatles never recorded') and I think it's gorgeous. Just him and electric guitar.
Interestingly, I've got a friend who writes songs and sings and she's enlisted my help in trying to knock them into some kind of shape. She was learning guitar but stopped some years back. She's trying to get this label boss interested and he said to her just do me a demo of you singing with guitar. She asked me if I'd help out. I'm by no means the worst guitarist on the planet - but I'm one of them ! :D The thing is, I think her songs are really good but I struggle with having just a guitar with the vocal because I'm forever thinking harmonically. She's sent off the demo on three songs, meanwhile, on my DAW I've been adding bass, drums, flute and congas, {well, different things on different songs} and they don't sound like her demos at all ! Her songs stand on their own but I think they need clothes !
But many of the songs I love are just that, guitar and vocal or piano and vocal. The "Live '66" Dylan song "Desolation row", Little Purple Circles' "Closer" and Bruce Cockburn's "Gavin's woodpile" and "Dialogue with the devil" among thousands show that one voice and one instrument can be unmatched. And to go one stage further, things like Suzanne Vega's "Tom's diner" or Prelude's "After the gold rush" show that even without accompanying instruments a great song is a great song.
I just wonder if I can spot that because I couldn't initially with my friend's songs.
 
There is a pretty decent market for the singer/songwriter genre again. It's not super mainstream and a lot is still independently recorded and released. But just look at the success of Bon Iver, Iron and Wine, Alexi Murdoch, Damien Rice, Elliott Smith, and a whole list of others who's music is basically just guitar, vocals, and sometimes some backing strings and piano etc. Additionally, a number of these types of bands have recorded an album or two of basic guitar/vocals, and then gotten enough of a fan base to justify the bigger production.

So, in terms of the question, I think there is a market for that sort of "demo" as a finished product (or close to it) and then room to grow on future productions.
 
It is an incredibly difficult genre to jump into because of the amount of skill it takes to separate yourself from all of the other people with a solo guitar and vocal. You have to be GOOD, but this is just my view because whenever I hear an artist singing to a solo acoustic, I have a hard time separating that artist from 15 others in my mind.
 
Sure wish there were still a lot of vocal/guitar or piano work in the mainstream. Peoples tastes are popularly
against the simple stuff and that's not what's been selling. They gotta have a lotta bells and whistles to entertain them. I wonder with all the home-made music if there will be a trend away from the past at some point - other times I doubt it because people don't want to work in order to be entertained.
 
rilez said:
It is an incredibly difficult genre to jump into because of the amount of skill it takes to separate yourself from all of the other people with a solo guitar and vocal. You have to be GOOD, but this is just my view because whenever I hear an artist singing to a solo acoustic, I have a hard time separating that artist from 15 others in my mind.
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Great point mate.
 
It is a super tough genre to break into for that very reason; every guy has a guitar and a voice. But, it just goes to show there is room for the simple.

Also, a good song is a good song and that was and always will be the key to getting deals (unless you wanna make pop music then you have to be sexy and half naked).
 
Rethinking this for a couple of days brought my thoughts to the "Is songwriting overrated ?" thread a couple of months back. There is a big difference between a song that is deliberately one voice accompanied by one instrument and a demo that has one voice and one instrument. The obvious difference is that the latter is not designed to be the finished product whereas the former is. So there could be loads of things in the latter that actually make the song. Not to mention the way everything will interact.
No doubt someone will point out that "no one sings the drum part or the bass part, but the melody". But that's only because you can't sing more than one element at a time and besides, you may often hear the backing in your mind as you 'sing the melody' and punctuate the gaps with drum fills, instrumental flourishes etc. When I used to work with kids, I'd have great fun singing 7 minute Deep Purple songs, complete with the solos that Jon Lord and Ritchie Blackmore would have played. The kids would look at me and fear for my sanity. And that's kind of the point I was getting at. I love songwriting but I think it's overrated. I think that regardless of the essential song, there are often so many different elements of the recording {for this is a recording question too ~ the two can't really be separated in my mind} that go to make the song. That they didn't exist at the song's initial writing is neither here nor there.
 
The obvious example I can think of from the past would be a song like 'Blowin' in The Wind' by Bob Dylan which is basically: acoustic guitar, voice and harmonica.
I love to hear music like this.
My favourite version of 'Candle in The Wind' is the recording of just vocal and piano.
When you do hear songs such as this which are just one instrument and voice, what sets them apart I think are the distinctiveness of the vocals.
Neil Young has done songs like this, for it to work I think you need a distinct voice....otherwise things can start sounding the same.
I agree that songwriting is overated....on some of The Beatles best work some of the most innovative things done on those songs was created by George Martin.
The original question asks ..'song demos, one instrument, one vocal, can it work anymore ?' I believe the answer is yes.
I still believe a well written song can shine through with a minimum of ornamentation.
A good melody, a good hook, good lyrics should be able to carry through with just a single voice and Instrument.
 
StevenJacksonMu said:
A good melody, a good hook, good lyrics should be able to carry through with just a single voice and Instrument.
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There's alot of truth to this. But for me it misses the point that I've been wrestling with for ages now. Music is made up of various elements, which can be used in various combinations or not at all. And many many songs become the songs they become precisely because of the different elements working together. A song is not simply the melody. The melody may be a powerful part of it, but equally may not. It may be the notes from other instruments that clash and bobtail in conjunction with the melody. Many punk songs would never survive without the attendant package. So much opera is boring to me because of the lack of harmony and counterpoint which sometimes is sacrificed because of the telling of a story (I recognize that it's truly visual as well). All I'm saying is that the recorded song one hears may be dependent on it's author for it's initial birth. But not necesarilly for it's development and ongoing life.
 
I agree with grimtraveller, the whole package has to work together. There are a ton of songs I don't really care for, but because of the guitar tone or something else about it the song becomes a classic in my book. Steely Dan's "kid charlemagne" comes to mind, the guitar solo/tone are incredible and bring me back to that song all the time even though the lyrics and song itself don't really draw me in.

But that doesn't mean the demo has to have all of that. I guess it's the job of a good producer to see/hear the potential. So, again, I don't think the days of a guitar/vocal demo are over. As one who has some (a small bit - definitely not an expert opinion) of experience in the industry, I think there is plenty of room for this simple demos. Please, those who have LOTS of experience in the industry, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
grimtraveller said:
There's alot of truth to this. But for me it misses the point that I've been wrestling with for ages now. Music is made up of various elements, which can be used in various combinations or not at all. And many many songs become the songs they become precisely because of the different elements working together. A song is not simply the melody. The melody may be a powerful part of it, but equally may not. It may be the notes from other instruments that clash and bobtail in conjunction with the melody. Many punk songs would never survive without the attendant package. So much opera is boring to me because of the lack of harmony and counterpoint which sometimes is sacrificed because of the telling of a story (I recognize that it's truly visual as well). All I'm saying is that the recorded song one hears may be dependent on it's author for it's initial birth. But not necesarilly for it's development and ongoing life.
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I couldn't agree more !
but for the purposes of selling songs often a 'stripped approach in a demo' is the preferred mode.
'Eleanor Rigby' certainly wouldn't be the song it is without those strings.....
but for some reason a song like 'Blowing In The Wind' sounds amazingly complete with just a vocal, a guitar and a harmonica.
 
Yeah!! "Blowin In The Wind." Exactly!! You could add others like that, too: A LOT of Gordon Lightfoot's songs sound fabulous with hardly anything behind them as well. What about "Laura" by Christopher Cross? Or even some John Denver songs (sounds great with hardly anything behind them).

Want the ultimate primo example? Carole King's Tapestry. Man, wow!! Half the songs are Just her and her piano ("Natural Woman," You've Got A Friend," "Home Again," you know what I mean.

Mike Freze
 
Wow, active thread.

The singer/songwriter is one of my favorite, perhaps my top fav, genre. Finding places like The Neutral Ground in New Orleans, and Eddie's Attic in Decatur, GA, and listening to S/S like Don Conoscenti, Pierce Pettis, Steve Forbet, Richard Thompson, I feel quite lucky to have those places and people to inspire me, when writing and playing music, or not. So, maybe I am biased, but I choose to believe the genre' will never die.
 
aaronmcoleman said:
But that doesn't mean the demo has to have all of that. I guess it's the job of a good producer to see/hear the potential. So, again, I don't think the days of a guitar/vocal demo are over.
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StevenJacksonMu said:
But for the purposes of selling songs often a 'stripped approach in a demo' is the preferred mode.
'Eleanor Rigby' certainly wouldn't be the song it is without those strings.....
but for some reason a song like 'Blowing In The Wind' sounds amazingly complete with just a vocal, a guitar and a harmonica.
Click to expand...
Great points. You know, I think I've been overlooking the 'demo' aspect of Mikes OP and getting caught up in my 'songwriting is overrated' mode of thought ! :D
I was going to say that I'd never have made a decent producer because I'm not often moved by just a guitar/piano and vocal, but in reality, that's not true (the bit about not being moved). Over the years friends of mine have written songs, either one instrument and voice or just a vocal melody and I've fashioned 'songs' out of them. Once, my mate left me two songs on my answering machine, both just lyrics and melodies and when I saw him a few days later, I had the two songs worked out on guitar and both are recorded full band pieces.
Funny thing is, never once have I heard a 'demo' in raw form and thought of what it could be. It just sort of naturally progresses, my mind would start to weave harmonies and countermelodies and rhythmic patterns and basslines and whatnot.
A couple of interesting observations from Rick Wakeman about David Bowie; On the "Space Oddity" session, he says "I was introduced to David Bowie who played us the song on his 12 string guitar. I remember thinking at the time that it was a tremendous piece of music....". He goes on to speak about the genesis of the 'Hunky Dory' Lp; "David had invited me round to his house in Beckenham, which I had nicknamed Beckenham Palace as it was the biggest house I'd ever seen. After he had proudly showed off his new son, Zowie, we relaxed in the huge lounge and David took his 12 string guitar out of it's case. 'I'm going to play you some songs that I've written for the new album', he began, 'and I want you to learn them on the piano and then play them back to me in your own style. I really want to come at this album from a piano angle instead of that of the guitar'.
He then proceeded to play the finest selection of songs I have ever heard in one sitting in my entire life. I doubt whether anybody will ever experience such a wonderfully unique evening as I had the pleasure of that night.
I had been given the honour of hearing tracks like "Life on Mars" and "Changes" in their raw brilliance. I couldn't wait to get into the studio to record them." Often, the core of a song's beauty or power can be there in just the demo. I wonder how many songs however, didn't appear particularly compelling in the demo or when the song was being shown to 'the band' and so never got done, yet could have been memorable, had the band worked on them.....
Interestingly, when something is presented as deliberately being just that instrument and vocal with nothing else to add, my mind seems to shut down from adding anything. Maybe the odd imaginary vocal harmony. I guess I subconsciously think that they're already spoken for !
 
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