quick and easy fix for phasing issues on overheads or other stereo pairs.

A

AASteveo

New member
it's hard to get overheads in the exact perfect place for the snare sound to reach each mic at the exact same time. a lot of amateur mixes have shitty snare sounds. one of the more common problems is phasing due to bad mic placement. here's an easy fix to this WITHOUT any EQ work.

1) first go into pro tools and solo up the overheads and the snare.

2) then find a single snare hit without much other stuff going on. zoom way in on the snare track and then tab-to-transient. write down the location of this transient.

3) then solo up the overhead left track and zoom way in. find the exact same snare hit and put a sync point on it (command+comma). now go into spot mode and put the sync point at the same spot where you wrote down from the snare track. you could also shift or nudge or just drag the region, however you want to do it.

4) do the same for overhead right.

basically, just match up the transients in the snare track and the overheads.
if you have each track exactly in phase, it will be much cleaner and the snare will cut through and sound incredible.

if you have two sources that are delayed slightly, you will get comb filtering and there will be phasing issues. most people might want to immediately grab the EQ to fix it. you can't boost frequencies that have been cut out due to comb filtering. EQ will never fix phasing from bad mic placement. if you don't believe me, just duplicate any region in protools and nudge it a few milliseconds and see how extensively the EQ changes. one millisecond can make a world of difference!


so now that you've done this with the overheads, try it with the room mics. not to the snare track, but just with each other. any time you have two mics on the same source, match up a transient so that they are in phase. this helps a lot with the bass DI vs. the bass mic. they are almost always delayed slightly. now that you know this trick, you can put as many mics as you want on any instrument and never have any phasing issues!
 
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Um, you make some good points about 1 millisecond being able to make a big difference. The problem is that sometimes we want there to be time delay from one microphone to another.

Think of different stereo mic techniques: Having everything time-aligned is like recording X-Y stereo (or mid-side or Blumlein). But if the microphones are spaced at all (ORTF, A-B), the stereo image usually becomes wider as a result of the source arriving at different mics at different times. Just like our ears.

That presents its own set of problems, like comb-filtering and mono incompatability. Those things may or may not matter depending on how well it's executed, and the subjective opinion of what sounds best. Personally, I like a little time-difference information in the sound. (I tend to record stuff in ORTF or with a Jecklin disc).

You are removing time differences by shifting them around to align transients. If that sounds good to you, fine. But it's not the only way to do things. :)
 
Assuming a typical home sized room, a much better strategy is to put absorption on the ceiling over the drum set, and on any nearby walls. Early reflections are the main cause of "amateurish and phasey" sounding drums.

--Ethan
 
You are definitely correct that eq will not fix comb filtering problems.

Addressing phase issues is not as simple as lining up snare transients though. For one thing, there are also kicks, toms, and cymbals in all those mics. They will not line up in the same way as the snare. Not to mention that frequencies are reflected and absorbed in different proportions by the medium (air) and the surroundings (walls and stuff). So in fact, the close mic and ambient mics will never be 'in phase' at all frequencies.

By moving the tracks in time you will change the phase relationships, but not necessarily make them better.
 
I thought we just got through covering this in another thread: there are no phase "issues" in a true stereo pair.

G.
 
I prefer to use a piece of string (actually a headphone extension cord) to make sure the overheads are an equal distance from the snare drum.
 
Chris. said:
I prefer to use a piece of string (actually a headphone extension cord) to make sure the overheads are an equal distance from the snare drum.
Click to expand...

Hey, check this out, there's this cool new thing out to get them EXACTLY the same distance. Check it out here -



Only $6.99

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aaaaaw come on guys, AASteveo's got a good tip for those that don't know, leave it be. for the most part he's totally right, for shaaaaaaame :D:D:D
 
mikeyhasnobones said:
aaaaaw come on guys, AASteveo's got a good tip for those that don't know, leave it be. for the most part he's totally right, for shaaaaaaame :D:D:D
Click to expand...

I respect that he's trying to help, but the idea that you can 'fix' phase in overheads by time-aligning is just not accurate. The danger is that people just go around putting overhead microphones up in random locations assuming that they can just fix it in the DAW.

I remember Recording magazine had a recording drums column where the author suggested time aligning everything including room mics. Basically all that happens when you do this is create new, different phase problems.
 
Yeah...I never have any weird phase issues with my overheads, I measure the pair from the grill of the snare mic and mic cymbals from the bottom if I'm micing them at all.

I do align transients on every recording I do to see how it all sounds though. Sometimes it makes things a bit punchier at the expense of making cymbals lose body, but that helps in dense mixes.

To each their own. I say get it right before you reach for the knob.
 
Maybe I should not have titled it "quick fix" or even put it in the recording techniques thread at all. This is really a technique to use after it's been tracked.
But what meant was that if someone gives you tracks to mix that have a phasey thin snare sound, it could be fixed by time-aligning the regions, assuming that the phasing is caused by bad mic placement and not room reflections.
I just learned this technique the other day and thought I'd spread the knowledge.
 
Kennedy who? Had a shot of what?
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just because the snare transient in the overheads occurs later in time than the transient on the snare close mic doesnt make it "out of phase".
 
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