Recording Distorted Guitars

T

thehellomotive

New member
Hey all,

New to this forum and looking for some RECORDING ADVICE. I recently joined my second band and I really wanna get this going, as my last group only played out a few times, never really recorded, mainly just practiced a lot.

We recorded one EP a few weeks ago, and it sounds OK, but I really want to do a better job of getting the sound we have live onto the EP. The main problem comes with guitar and to a lesser extent bass. It sounds pretty wimpy on the EP. Our new songs have some distortion involved, and I’m worried that we aren’t going to be able to get the desired sound if we couldn’t even get a good cranked amp sound.

OUR SETUP:
-We record through an 8-track tape thing (lol, it’s just what we have).
-Guitar and bass are mic’d with SM57s.
-Drum is mic’d with a beta 52 on kick, a random dynamic mic on the snare, and I think a Rode condenser of some sort for overhead. Actually didn’t sound terrible, although didn't get much of the toms.
-Vox are through a Bluebird. Was also fairly pleased with these.

ANYWAYS, if someone has general advice, that would be great. Like I said, our next EP has some distortion, and the last one should have had some more punch in the guitar. Here is the link to our last recordings. I don't want it to seem like I'm just advertising or something (lol), just really want some help on this.

Eventually, we'd probably pay to have something more professional done, but for the next year or so, would like to be able to churn stuff out whenever we want and have it sound good.

soundcloud.com/thehellomotive

Thanks! We appreciate any and all assistance.
 
You need to get the tones set better at your amp...and you need to crank them up some more if you want that punchy/crunchy sound.

Most of your guitars sound like they were low-level, and lots of single-coil pickups.

Also...once you get that sorted...find the best positions for the mics to pick up the sound you are hearing from the amp.

Don't overdo the sound with pure distortion, as that will end up mushy in the recordings even if it sounds good live.
 
miroslav said:
You need to get the tones set better at your amp...and you need to crank them up some more if you want that punchy/crunchy sound.

Most of your guitars sound like they were low-level, and lots of single-coil pickups.

Also...once you get that sorted...find the best positions for the mics to pick up the sound you are hearing from the amp.

Don't overdo the sound with pure distortion, as that will end up mushy in the recordings even if it sounds good live.
Click to expand...


Hey man, thanks for the reply.

So, I HAD the tone setup on my amp, but when we played it through the recording, it sounded like SHIT. lol. So the guy in charge of the recording side of this told me I had to turn it down, took away all my dirt. Any idea what went wrong?
 
What is your guitar rig setup?

I can't make any judgments since I wasn't there at the time, but my suspicion is that whoever told you to turn down was full of shit. Just a gut feeling.

Keep in mind that what sounds good to you in the room is almost certainly different than what will sound good to a mic right on the amp's grill. Since the mic's perspective is all that matters in a recording, you have to serve its purposes. 6 months from now when you're listening back to your tracks, what the amp sounded like in the room 6 months ago won't matter. It's all about what the mic hears. Dial in your amp tone to make it sound good to the mic.
 
You don't want crazy distortion...but you don't want to take it all away either.
Also...distortion is one thing...the loudness of the amp is another thing.

Here's what works most of the time....turn up your amp, find that loudness sweet spot where it's chugging nice.
Then, find the distortion that sounds good to you in the room...then take out about 30% of the distortion, but don't bring down the level too, otherwise it will end up sounding wimpy with no punch.

Then...record a few test passes and adjust as needed so that what you are *recording* sounds how you want it, not just what you are hearing in the room.
 
Tadpui said:
What is your guitar rig setup?

I can't make any judgments since I wasn't there at the time, but my suspicion is that whoever told you to turn down was full of shit. Just a gut feeling.

Keep in mind that what sounds good to you in the room is almost certainly different than what will sound good to a mic right on the amp's grill. Since the mic's perspective is all that matters in a recording, you have to serve its purposes. 6 months from now when you're listening back to your tracks, what the amp sounded like in the room 6 months ago won't matter. It's all about what the mic hears. Dial in your amp tone to make it sound good to the mic.
Click to expand...

LOL! I play an SG through an AC 15. I'm not totally disappointed in the sound, but yeah, we got a LOT more meat on the bones usually. We were super limited on time, so I kinda just said whatever.

Question, SHOULD the amp sound come across to the mic relatively easily? As in, I play a certain way, it shouldn't totally overload the mic right? Cuz that's what the guy made it sound like what happening. If this isn't the case, I'll spend a lot more time discussing my thoughts on it and testing to get the proper sound.
 
miroslav said:
You don't want crazy distortion...but you don't want to take it all away either.
Also...distortion is one thing...the loudness of the amp is another thing.

Here's what works most of the time....turn up your amp, find that loudness sweet spot where it's chugging nice.
Then, find the distortion that sounds good to you in the room...then take out about 30% of the distortion, but don't bring down the level too, otherwise it will end up sounding wimpy with no punch.

Then...record a few test passes and adjust as needed so that what you are *recording* sounds how you want it, not just what you are hearing in the room.
Click to expand...

Miroslav, thanks so much. I will definitely try this.
 
There is one glaring omission here? WTF is the OP listening to the band's recoding on?

Headphones are not going to cut it IMHO (and does he have a diss' amp for all the players?) and there are very few monitors sub $5000 that can reproduce the full range of a rock band at ANYTHING like the original level.

A fairly cheap and dirty solution would be a wideband PA rig. But, I would strongly suggest, practice a few songs till you can play them (well!) in you sleep and then go to a pro studio.

Dave.
 
I'm not in a position to listen to your recording, but the vox a15 is known as a bright sounding amp.

Since it's a combo, chances are the speakers are pointed at your ankles. This means that the sound you hear standing in front of it is very different from what is actually coming out of the speakers.

Dialing the tone so that it sounds good 6 feet in the air, a few feet away will not get you a great sound an inch off the speaker. (Where you place the mic)

The easiest way around this is to dial in the tone while listening to what the mic is actually hearing. It will end up sounding much darker in the room than it did but, as mentioned before, it doesn't matter.
 
I just listened. Yup, you probably need more gain or volume to get a little more uumph to the guitars. They aren't terrible sounding, but you were probably going for something else.
 
I listened to your first song, Freak Out. Sounds pretty good. I like the song. Good vocals. Bass was serviceable, a little overpowering in the low mids but mainly just too loud in the mix. It's not the world's greatest guitar tone, though no doubt you could make it work in the right mix. However, to improve it would be simple enough. I owned an AC-15 for a few weeks recently but returned it because tube rattle in that particular amp made it impossible to record. Glad yours doesn't have that problem. I found just what you are finding--a tone that sounds great in the room can be thin when recorded. Broken_H has the same amp and struggled with this issue too. What worked for me was using the normal channel with single coils (top boost sounded better with humbuckers), setting the tone knob for a darker sound, and moving the mic a little farther out laterally toward the edge of the speaker than I would do on, say, a Fender with its inherently darker tone. I also found that amp does NOT sound better the louder you crank it. There is a sweet spot when the volume knob on the amp is cranked maybe halfway, a little more or less. I think your quickest gains will come from experimenting with mic position. As others have said, what matters is what your mic is hearing. You need to be able to hear the tone through your mic and monitors, not your ears in the room. There is an efficient and an inefficient way to do that. The inefficient way was suggested above--put on some headphones, record, listen back, adjust, repeat. You'll get there eventually. The efficient way is how pros studios do it (works perfectly in a home studio too)--get the amp out of your control room so that you can monitor through your speakers and hear exactly what is tracking, in the mix, in real time.

As I was typing, the song ended and your next one, You're a Flower, started playing. Can you hear the loud attack of the guitar clipping your input? You need to tame those transients, either by compression, guitar and amp settings, mic placement, or playing technique.
 
Robus said:
I listened to your first song, Freak Out. Sounds pretty good. I like the song. Good vocals. Bass was serviceable, a little overpowering in the low mids but mainly just too loud in the mix. It's not the world's greatest guitar tone, though no doubt you could make it work in the right mix. However, to improve it would be simple enough. I owned an AC-15 for a few weeks recently but returned it because tube rattle in that particular amp made it impossible to record. Glad yours doesn't have that problem. I found just what you are finding--a tone that sounds great in the room can be thin when recorded. Broken_H has the same amp and struggled with this issue too. What worked for me was using the normal channel with single coils (top boost sounded better with humbuckers), setting the tone knob for a darker sound, and moving the mic a little farther out laterally toward the edge of the speaker than I would do on, say, a Fender with its inherently darker tone. I also found that amp does NOT sound better the louder you crank it. There is a sweet spot when the volume knob on the amp is cranked maybe halfway, a little more or less. I think your quickest gains will come from experimenting with mic position. As others have said, what matters is what your mic is hearing. You need to be able to hear the tone through your mic and monitors, not your ears in the room. There is an efficient and an inefficient way to do that. The inefficient way was suggested above--put on some headphones, record, listen back, adjust, repeat. You'll get there eventually. The efficient way is how pros studios do it (works perfectly in a home studio too)--get the amp out of your control room so that you can monitor through your speakers and hear exactly what is tracking, in the mix, in real time.

As I was typing, the song ended and your next one, You're a Flower, started playing. Can you hear the loud attack of the guitar clipping your input? You need to tame those transients, either by compression, guitar and amp settings, mic placement, or playing technique.
Click to expand...

Robus,

Thanks for the help man, lots of good advice here... The You're a Flower clipping I believe you are talking about is actually intentional. I like the way it sounds live, but I see how it is grating on the recording. One thing I've learned so far, what sounds good live MAY not sound good on record!
 
Thanks so much for the help everyone! I will try everything that everyone has to say. If anyone wants to hear the improvements, I'll post a song up in a week (if anyone cares lol).

Again, thanks! Good luck to all of us :)
 
ecc83 said:
There is one glaring omission here? WTF is the OP listening to the band's recoding on?

Headphones are not going to cut it IMHO (and does he have a diss' amp for all the players?) and there are very few monitors sub $5000 that can reproduce the full range of a rock band at ANYTHING like the original level.

A fairly cheap and dirty solution would be a wideband PA rig. But, I would strongly suggest, practice a few songs till you can play them (well!) in you sleep and then go to a pro studio.

Dave.
Click to expand...

Dave,

LOL! We just have some shitty headphones LOL

Getting some songs down 100% (these are certainly not) and getting this done professionally is starting to sound better... wanted to try this though. How much do you think 4-5 songs will run us if we get them down to where they are "perfect". And let's just assume we perform well in studio and don't waste much time.

Thanks
 
thehellomotive said:
Dave,

LOL! We just have some shitty headphones LOL

Getting some songs down 100% (these are certainly not) and getting this done professionally is starting to sound better... wanted to try this though. How much do you think 4-5 songs will run us if we get them down to where they are "perfect". And let's just assume we perform well in studio and don't waste much time.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I do not, and never have run a professional studio but I am sure many of the top guys here will give you some ideas about prices?

Dave.
 
Hi there.
As I understand it, you record drums and amps in the same room, and that's all fine, but as Miroslav indicates, it has to sound good to a person standing at the same distance from every instrument, not how it sounds from only one microphone. Though the microphone itself does not discriminate on what it 'hears', it should definately not interfere with how you work your amp. Anyways, what I recommend is that you invest in a another sm58 or a cheap clone of the sm58, perhaps t.Bone MB85 from Thomann (their own rebranded China knock offs) @ €20, or you can surely find something similar :-). This for the sake of having two mics on the guitar amp: the sm58 directed at the center of the speaker-cone, and the sm57 in an angle of 90 degrees to the surface of the speaker, do this to find the sweet spot: really crank up the amp (with your sound), put on headphones and grab the sm57, move it around the sides of the speaker-cone, the position, where you hear the most noise(hiss) is the place to put the mic in a distance of about 1.5 inches. This is a really great starting point for a good sound. Actually it is not that bad guitar sound on You're a flower :-). I can't really make out if you are two guitarists in the band, but if so, then do the same. Then you will need a small mixer (4/4/2 should be fine).
Actually I'm baffled that your bass sound so full, recorded with a 57, I'd surely use a 58. But otherwise all good use of mics. If I could choose I'd go with a AKG d112 on the kick (which is too loud volume-wise, you need to work on the punch, in the region of 4-6 KHz, and cut from 150-900 Hz, will leave more room for guitars :).
Equipment: I'd say you are well off. Especially if the 8-track is a reel-to-reel, but an 8-track compact casette tape recorder is a great machine as well (especially if Tascam). Once had a 4-track Tascam and did a lot of great recordings :-
Finally: it would be great if you can lend a really great analog compressor/limiter to put on the master bus, it would really tie together your music.
And sorry to say I vocals are really bad. They sit well in the mix, nothing wrong there. I understand the singer has a bit of punky attitude, all good, but the music is NOT punk! And any promoter of a venue would have a hard time imagining your singer arouse the audience, sorry, I know so having worked at a large venue for a decade. Unless the singer can sing, you will not go far. Have him take lessons. I did, and it payed of :-)
Now finally for your overall sound I have a recommendation for you: you might know danish band Mew. As far as I know, they have released albums pretty much around all of the world. Have a listen to their album "Frengers" is on iTunes, especielly the track "Am I Wry? No", should be of interest to you. Or listen to Prefab Sprout, I actually played Prefab Sprout to Mew, and it inspired them on the two next albums !
So
all the best
Nils
greetings from Denmark
 
Nils,

There is ONE guitar all played live, pretty cool eh. I also sing whilst doing this...

Thanks for the advice! We appreciate the help. I think I'll try the two mics on the guitar amp and see how it goes.

As far as vocals, what do you think I could improve exactly? Am I just not hitting notes or what? Don't like the style? I listened (am listening) to Mew and they are quite good, but this isn't really our sound (not saying I can't learn anything from this). We are interested in bands like Pavement and Parquet Courts and Sonic Youth. Not saying I think vocals are 10/10, but I didn't really think they were TRASH (esp. for 1 take no overdubs), so I am confused by your commentary. If you'd care to expand, I would really appreciate it so that I can get better.

Thanks!
 
Just be careful when using two mics. Phase can become an issue and make the guitar actually sound weaker. You have a great attitude and thats refreshing. I hope you get your recordings to where you want them to be!
 
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