Balanced XLR to unbalanced RCA?

Q

Quartz1

New member
Hi guys, hello! My 1st post here.

So I'd be buying a pair of Tannoy Reveal 502s.

I heard about the hiss sound coming from them, so wanted to use XLR balanced cable. I could use XLR-mini jack and connect this to my motherboard soundcard, but heard this is risky as some sound cards don't work well with it etc.

So I thought I will add Behringer U-Control UCA222 - and use 2 male XLR (from the monitors) to 2 male RCA (to the UCA222) and the UCA222 through the USB to my PC.

My question is this: does this make any plausible sense if XLR is a balanced signal and the RCA is not? Maybe it would be better to just go with 6.3mm jack - RCA connection?

Any feedback will be welcomed :)
 
Hi there,

A computer soundcard output over 3.5mm is going to be unbalanced no matter what way you wire it - The source is unbalanced.
The same is true for the UCA222.

Using balanced is good practice but usually the need for it is hums/buzzes being picked up from lighting or nearby equipment with transformers.
Hiss is usually a different story.

What way is your gain staging? If, for example, you have the volume output at the computer quite low and the monitor amplifiers at maximum, there's more chance of hearing hiss
than if you had the computer volume at maximum and the monitor amplifiers balanced to taste.

I'm sure there's a science in there but I've seen plenty of people settle on a middle ground and be happy.

I have my monitor amplifiers set such that interface volume at 50% is comfortable.
That gives me just enough room to go louder/quieter, without anyone one piece of gear operating at its extremes.
 
What makes you think the 502s will hiss? I have the Reveal 5As abnd they are silent at the listening position and I can just hear a hiss with Mk1 lug against the tweeter.

The line signal from the soundcard or the 222 will be at very low impedance (almost all soundcards have a Zout of 100 Ohms regardless of cost!) therefore even quite a long cable, 10mtrs+ should cause you no bother even if it isn't balanced.

In the unlikely event that you DO have a problem you can probably solve it with a bit of soldering by making the XLR plug "impedance" balanced (will do you a scribble) However, THE biggest problem with PCs to mains powered monitors is a hum/ground/earth loop and that is best fixed with a transformer isolator which will stone two feathered things...Balance the outs and isolate the earth.

Or! You could buy a decent USB AI WITH balanced outputs and 24 bit capability! (222 is 16bit)

Dave.
 
Scattered reports of hiss in a Google search... tannoy reveal 502 hiss - Google Search

Reading through a few I'm inclined to think it may be inherent in the monitor itself which if 'gain staging' is set incorrectly the hiss may become more evident, versus a cable issue which should be done properly at any rate.

If the 502's are really what you want, get them from a reputable seller that does returns easily.

In the manual it shows being able to use an 1/8" to 1/8" stereo cable into the 'AUX' input of one 502 and linking it to the second one. While not maybe the best way to run them, it would be worth a try until you figure out if you need to upgrade to something better. An 1/8" trs to 1/8" trs cable shouldn't set you back much and can be handy times for other stuff.

Hosa-CMM-103-Stereo-Interconnect-Cable


Reveal 502 manual PDF
"Aux input – Monitor Link
As an alternative to feeding a mono signal into each
Tannoy Reveal loudspeaker, you can feed a stereo
signal (e.g. from an audio interface, a smart phone or
an audio player) to one loudspeaker and link it to a
second loudspeaker using the supplied 3.5 mm cable,
thereby creating a stereo pair. To do so, proceed as
follows:
– Connect your line level signal source to the “IN”
jack in the AUX section of the first loudspeaker’s
Volume control
6 Reveal 402 / 502 / 802
rear panel, using the 3.5 mm mini-jack cable that
came with the first speaker.
– Connect the “MONITOR LINK” jack of the first
loudspeaker to the “MONITOR LINK” jack of the
second loudspeaker using the 3.5 mm mini-jack
cable that came with the second speaker.
– Set the “SPEAKER POSITION” switch of each
monitor according to its physical position.
– Set the position switch of the left loudspeaker
(when facing the fronts) to “-►”.
– Set the position switch of the right loudspeaker
to“◄-”. "
 
Steenamaroo said:
Hi there,

A computer soundcard output over 3.5mm is going to be unbalanced no matter what way you wire it - The source is unbalanced.
The same is true for the UCA222.
Click to expand...

thats what I suspected

Steenamaroo said:
Using balanced is good practice but usually the need for it is hums/buzzes being picked up from lighting or nearby equipment with transformers.
Hiss is usually a different story.
Click to expand...

So I assume a PC or PC monitor won't be causing any hums/buzzes

Steenamaroo said:
What way is your gain staging? If, for example, you have the volume output at the computer quite low and the monitor amplifiers at maximum, there's more chance of hearing hiss
than if you had the computer volume at maximum and the monitor amplifiers balanced to taste.

I'm sure there's a science in there but I've seen plenty of people settle on a middle ground and be happy.
Click to expand...

Okay so the best thing to do would be to put volume setting coming out of a computer to the max and balance it out from the speakers- thats what I usually do on my current ones (just normal PC speakers, logitech z506 5.1]
 
ecc83 said:
What makes you think the 502s will hiss? I have the Reveal 5As abnd they are silent at the listening position and I can just hear a hiss with Mk1 lug against the tweeter.

The line signal from the soundcard or the 222 will be at very low impedance (almost all soundcards have a Zout of 100 Ohms regardless of cost!) therefore even quite a long cable, 10mtrs+ should cause you no bother even if it isn't balanced.

In the unlikely event that you DO have a problem you can probably solve it with a bit of soldering by making the XLR plug "impedance" balanced (will do you a scribble) However, THE biggest problem with PCs to mains powered monitors is a hum/ground/earth loop and that is best fixed with a transformer isolator which will stone two feathered things...Balance the outs and isolate the earth.

Or! You could buy a decent USB AI WITH balanced outputs and 24 bit capability! (222 is 16bit)

Dave.
Click to expand...

I've read quite a few comments mentioning about this hiss problem - but other parameters of the speakers fit my needs.

At this point I don't know whether people report hiss/humming etc due to the problems you guys mentioned (like setting it minimum at PC output and max at the monitor level) or something else, but I think some older batches had this problem that was supposedly ''corrected'' later on. However, some people still report this even from 2017, so idk really.
 
arcaxis said:
In the manual it shows being able to use an 1/8" to 1/8" stereo cable into the 'AUX' input of one 502 and linking it to the second one. While not maybe the best way to run them, it would be worth a try until you figure out if you need to upgrade to something better. An 1/8" trs to 1/8" trs cable shouldn't set you back much and can be handy times for other stuff.


"Aux input – Monitor Link
As an alternative to feeding a mono signal into each
Tannoy Reveal loudspeaker, you can feed a stereo
signal (e.g. from an audio interface, a smart phone or
an audio player) to one loudspeaker and link it to a
second loudspeaker using the supplied 3.5 mm cable,
thereby creating a stereo pair. To do so, proceed as
follows:
– Connect your line level signal source to the “IN”
jack in the AUX section of the first loudspeaker’s
Volume control
6 Reveal 402 / 502 / 802
rear panel, using the 3.5 mm mini-jack cable that
came with the first speaker.
– Connect the “MONITOR LINK” jack of the first
loudspeaker to the “MONITOR LINK” jack of the
second loudspeaker using the 3.5 mm mini-jack
cable that came with the second speaker.
– Set the “SPEAKER POSITION” switch of each
monitor according to its physical position.
– Set the position switch of the left loudspeaker
(when facing the fronts) to “-►”.
– Set the position switch of the right loudspeaker
to“◄-”. "
Click to expand...


Yes, I saw that manual. I would rather avoid doing it this way, somehow. Even you mentioned it ''While not maybe the best way to run them'' - could you explain why that is?

So, if getting B222 really won't change anything, would I be okay simply getting 2 male RCA's going to mini jack and simply connecting the whole thing to the PC motherboard soundcard this way [a pretty basic Realtek Audio HD, nothing fancy]?
 
Okay now I understand. I can use mini jack from my PC soundcard going to AUX minijack IN in the speakers, and use another 3.5'' cable to do the monitor link.

But still, why this is worse solution? Would this be more prone to signal disturbances? (I plan using max 3m cable lenghts)
 
Quartz1 said:
Okay now I understand. I can use mini jack from my PC soundcard going to AUX minijack IN in the speakers, and use another 3.5'' cable to do the monitor link.
Click to expand...
Correct and I think I read that the monitor link cable is included with the 502's so only one cable to connect the PC to one of the monitors would be needed


But still, why this is worse solution? Would this be more prone to signal disturbances? (I plan using max 3m cable lenghts)
Click to expand...
For longer cable runs there is more risk of picking up hum or other interference and a balanced cable would be less susceptible to picking up noise. What is the use for the monitors that you may need 3m of cable?
Again I would suggest trying the monitors with the 3.5mm trs cable and work from there. If you think you need an interface to get balanced cables to the monitors, you should also take into consideration what else you might be doing, such as recording, podcasting, or similar where you may want to input a mic, guitar, or something else into the computer and get an interface which will be adequate for future use.

I have a pair of MAudio monitors I use with the PC I'm currently on connected out the PC's soundcard via a 3.5mm plug to RCA's into the monitors. Also have Realtek Audio in this PC. I hear no noise or interference.
 
Quartz1 said:
Okay now I understand. I can use mini jack from my PC soundcard going to AUX minijack IN in the speakers, and use another 3.5'' cable to do the monitor link.

But still, why this is worse solution? Would this be more prone to signal disturbances? (I plan using max 3m cable lenghts)
Click to expand...

This won't be prone to any more signal disturbances than any other solution that takes a feed from the line output of your sound card, because all are inherently unbalanced.

That means you have nothing to lose by going with the simplest option (which ever you decide that to be).

Keep the level of the Realtek fairly high to maximise the signal to noise ratio coming out of the computer, then set the speakers to a comfortable listening level.

You may get a decent enough signal to work with, and if nothing else, it will get you going until you can get something better. 'Something better' is an audio interface that has balanced outputs, and will allow you to use XLR or TRS cables to get to the speakers.
 
arcaxis said:
For longer cable runs there is more risk of picking up hum or other interference and a balanced cable would be less susceptible to picking up noise. What is the use for the monitors that you may need 3m of cable?
Click to expand...

You're right, I think 1.5m might be sufficient too.

---------- Update ----------

Anyway, thanks a lot guys - extremely helpful. :thumbs up: Saved me a few coins :) I will go with the simplest option and take it from there.
 
Well I find that information quite depressing. To think such an old, well established company such as Tannoy (which is one of the very few commercial names to enter English as a general noun and verb, like "Hoover") would allow such a product to bear their name is most regrettable.

I have to say, as the Active Monitor has become THE device of choice for the home recordist I have read of several instances of monitors producing audible "self noise". This is all the more annoying because it is completely avoidable at the design stage even for VERY budget monitors. After all, when did anyone ever complain of even a quite modest Hi Fi system producing audible noise at the listening seat? The design of quiet disc amplifiers is quite challenging but mssrs Sony, Denon, Marantz et al seemed to manage it?

The problem is, the specifications for actives rarely give a figure for self noise especially the cheaper ones. You would think reviewers would pick it up but I read 2 or 3 a month and it is hardly ever mentioned.

Shame on you Tannoy!

Dave.
 
''Aux input – Monitor Link
As an alternative to feeding a mono signal into each
Tannoy Reveal loudspeaker, you can feed a stereo
signal (e.g. from an audio interface, a smart phone or
an audio player) to one loudspeaker and link it to a
second loudspeaker using the supplied 3.5 mm cable,
thereby creating a stereo pair. To do so, proceed as
follows:
– Connect your line level signal source to the “IN”
jack in the AUX section of the first loudspeaker’s
Volume control
6 Reveal 402 / 502 / 802
rear panel, using the 3.5 mm mini-jack cable that
came with the first speaker.
– Connect the “MONITOR LINK” jack of the first
loudspeaker to the “MONITOR LINK” jack of the
second loudspeaker using the 3.5 mm mini-jack
cable that came with the second speaker.
– Set the “SPEAKER POSITION” switch of each
monitor according to its physical position.
– Set the position switch of the left loudspeaker
(when facing the fronts) to “-►”.
– Set the position switch of the right loudspeaker
to“◄-”. "


^^^^
Actually I think I won't need any cables at all, as there will be 2 in total [coming from 2 speakers - 1 in each] :)
 
Quartz1 said:
^^^^
Actually I think I won't need any cables at all, as there will be 2 in total [coming from 2 speakers - 1 in each] :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, I forgot each speaker should include its own cable. I can't seem to find the length, but would assume it would long enough to place the monitors a reasonable distance apart.
 
ecc83 said:
Well I find that information quite depressing. To think such an old, well established company such as Tannoy (which is one of the very few commercial names to enter English as a general noun and verb, like "Hoover") would allow such a product to bear their name is most regrettable.

I have to say, as the Active Monitor has become THE device of choice for the home recordist I have read of several instances of monitors producing audible "self noise". This is all the more annoying because it is completely avoidable at the design stage even for VERY budget monitors. After all, when did anyone ever complain of even a quite modest Hi Fi system producing audible noise at the listening seat? The design of quiet disc amplifiers is quite challenging but mssrs Sony, Denon, Marantz et al seemed to manage it?

The problem is, the specifications for actives rarely give a figure for self noise especially the cheaper ones. You would think reviewers would pick it up but I read 2 or 3 a month and it is hardly ever mentioned.

Shame on you Tannoy!

Dave.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not.

Are you referring to the 3.5mm aux input option? Sure, that's unbalanced, but it's only an alternative. They provide for balanced in the form of XLR and TRS.

Or are we talking about different things?
 
gecko zzed said:
Perhaps not.

Are you referring to the 3.5mm aux input option? Sure, that's unbalanced, but it's only an alternative. They provide for balanced in the form of XLR and TRS.

Or are we talking about different things?
Click to expand...

Are we? I understood that the 502 produced audible noise at the optimum monitoring seat? Are you saying it only does this for the 3.5mm option?

I confess I have not scrutinized the monitor's manual as yet but I still don't see why an "AUX" input should be noisy? NE5532s have been around for at least 30 years and there are even better op amps now!

Oil be beck.

Oim beck.. Ok so the speaker has a sensitivity for full output for 0.775V, 0dBu. That is, IMVHO, too much gain. There can be few AIs that do not produce at least +10dBu for 0dBfs? Even so, I find it hard to belive that a company such as Tannoy cannot design a line amplifier with lower noise? (tho' there seems to be a QC issue here? Only some samples are hissy)

If the provision of the AUX facitlty is the cause of the noise it is a case of trying to be be "All Things to All Men" and doing it badly.

As I mentioned and fully expected, the otherwise quite comprehensive specc' sheet give NO indication of self noise.

Sad.

Dave.
 
Last edited:
ecc83 said:
Well I find that information quite depressing. To think such an old, well established company such as Tannoy (which is one of the very few commercial names to enter English as a general noun and verb, like "Hoover") would allow such a product to bear their name is most regrettable.
Click to expand...

At the risk of depressing you even further Dave, Tannoy are now owned by Uli Behringer's Music Group now (after being owned by TC Electronic for some years).
 
jamesperrett said:
At the risk of depressing you even further Dave, Tannoy are now owned by Uli Behringer's Music Group now (after being owned by TC Electronic for some years).[/QUOjaTE]

THANK you (not!) for that James. When I was in the market for budget monitors I had no way to audition them (and with MY ears would have been futile anyway!) so I just spent a few weeks gathering information. A big decider was a blind "shootout" in one of the magazines (Computer Music?) where the 5A came out as something of a giant killer being chosen above several speakers of considerably greater cost. Son was into jazz more than heavy rock and so window rattling bass was not an issue and overall levels would have to be socially acceptable as well.

However, two factors also swayed me. Tannoy have been in the speaker business longer than I have been alive (and that is saying something!) AND the company does not also make every other electronic/audio jimcrack on the market? Bit sadder now. BUT!

I hope, in the next two years or so to be able to afford something REALLY good. I am very tempted by the Reveal 6 (£2400) but the Neumanns at the £2k point get REALLY good rep. I like the design concept behind a 3 way monitor but for a given lump of dosh, is a two way better?

I just hope by the time I am ready to buy, Bellringer have not bought up EVERY frigging speaker firm!!

Dave.
Click to expand...
 
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