A different kind of mix contest

xfinsterx said:
Bear's mix is a wee bit dark.

And im not feelin the panned backing vox so much.

But overall its great.

Best one ive heard yet.

Nice Bruce.
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I'll have to disagree with that respectfully.
Your mix does not truly sound very professional in my opinion. You addressed the issues you had talked about earlier:

Blue Bear Sound said:
) you guys are compressing WAAAAY too much, both on the final mix and the tracks themselves.

2) I've yet to hear anyone nail the mix balance properly - especially with the low-end... seems like very few people are hearing the low end properly as they're putting A LOT of bass into the mix. Also a couple with exaggerated highs.... watch the EQ!!

3) Reverb -- again, everyone seems to be putting on too much, especially on the voice.
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You adhered to these closely.... maybe a little too closely... there are some spots in your mix where i would have bumped up the compression a little bit (backing vocals especially), and some other things I would have tried to bring up the 'sparkle' factor a little bit.

Personally, i think Strave had the most innovative mix out there, and most of it was done well.

Overall, doesn't sound like something from a Professionally done Rock CD.
I'm not trying to turn this into mix-bash-fest, but just offering my opinion on it.
 
Speaking of a Rock CD; I think BlueBears mix would come out way better than every other after mastering. His mix is probably the only mix really suitable for great mastering, as most of the others are compressed to death already.
Mixwise, his mix is the best so far imo.
 
JazzMang said:
Your mix does not truly sound very professional in my opinion.
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Define "professional"....... :rolleyes:

Interesting that someone thinks a very poorly balanced and heavily-overcompressed mix sounds better than some others. One has to wonder if they simply don't hear very well, or if have an extremely poor monitoring system, or if it's just sour grapes and an easy snipe.... possibly all three......

But in any case, it's all perspective and subjective opinion.... carry on! :cool:
 
Well I have to say, giving me negative feedback because of a difference of opinion is really disappointing.

In any event...

I come from a younger generation. After listening to your mix, I can tell you that techniques have changed... (according to this type of music) I wouldn't know a thing about jazz, blues, polka or anything but I do understand rock. And I do understand this generation.

1. My vocals are punchy, clear, cut through... the right effects are applied at the right time.

2. The kick punches through (it was sampled from the best... saying it sounds bad is an attack on trombino and the like)

3. I didn't know we were preparing something for a hypothetical mastering, if you want I can post a quieter, uncompressed version. I was producing a product.

4. The main thing is... we are from two very different generations at this point which in turn will give us VERY different opinions. While you may be very good at what you do in the 35-100 year old bracket, it doesn't sound good to me. It sounds like the rest, clearer, and minus reverb. Because of this age difference however, I can't argue that yours sounds bad (it could quite possibly be very good) and I think you can't argue that mine sounds bad (I don't know how you could besides, again, the cheapo master)

5. You are going to be supported by a lot of people, and you deserve it... you have helped a lot of people and have spent a lot of time here... and I in no way mean to discredit what you do. As I've gotten older I've realized that people go through so much crap to get where they are and I respect you for where you stand.

There's just something very indisputable here. I mixed mine the way I did because I thought it sounds the best. I could have gotten those vocals sounding any number of ways... they were juicy, sweet, and scrumptious after I was done with them... but yes I could have kept them nasally. I could have held them to the original disgusting voice. I thought it was unpleasant. I could have used the original kick drum but it didn't push and it wasn't recorded correctly for this type of song so I put a new one in. And I'm guessing you could have mixed yours in many different ways. And I'm sure that a certain group of people will love it. In the end I feel I have no right to attack your mix, and you have no right to attack mine (Unless I really did something wrong, not preferentially, besides the mastering thing which I am taking SO much flak for).

The reason I took offense is because I knew these style differeneces would come up. You have your idols I have mine. I idolize Trombino and Feldman... The Used, Story of the Year, Jimmy Eat World... the kind of music my mix sounds like. I'm sure your mix sounds just like whoever you idolize.

I could talk about this forever... rigid set guidelines for what is right and wrong can only go so far and at a certain point only limits the engineer. I ask that you honestly admit that my mix sounds pleasant though, (except for, again, the compression mastering if you hate it) that although it may not be your thing, you can appreciate the technique and differences. Fast forward to 3:00 and tell me those drums don't sound beautiful. :)

Again, thanks for your response and please don't leave negative feedback because of a disagreement on style. Anyone who agrees with me, feel free to support me and lets keep this civilized and honest. (Thanks Jazzmang)
 
Strave -- if you're ever in the Ottawa area, come to my studio and I will play your mix next to ANY commercial CD you choose. You won't be a happy camper, I guarantee it....

'nuf said... I refuse to get into this mix-pissing match any further...


PS - I most certainly DID NOT give you negative feedback....
 
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You discredit everything I did with that? I didn't record these tracks man... they wouldn't sound commercial EVER. I hope you at least read what I said.
 
Mr Bears interpretation of the drums is much better than the competition... also the bass sound is superior as well (nice and smooth)... if you listen to the song you can hear the bass and drums on Mr Bears mix clearly even when the mix gets dense...

as Finster mentioned Mr Bear's mix is a little dark... and for me the vocals don't stand out enough especially when the distorted guitars come in over the chorus...

It's really hard to pick a best mix... in Strave's mix the vocals sit well with the distorted guitar over the chorus... and the song is allowed to punch it's way through the chorus... but the same eq doesn't work as well for the verse where it breaks down... Mr Bear on the other hand as a decent sound over the verse... his sterling work on the drums and bass has paid off here and they are allowed to shine alongside a nice sounding electric...

In conclusion...

The best mix would take the bright punchy distorted guitar and vocals from Strave mix and marry them with the well defined drums, bass and verse-guitar from Mr Bears mix...
 
Judgments

As a musician of both classical and contemporary percussion, I must say that overall, producers and mixers suck at recording drums. In fact, I somewhat blame the modern day recording industry for straying to much into the editors realm of artistic abilities and not staying focused on getting the most true and natural sound of drums. AKA what you hear in a live performance is what you hear on a cd. The way it felt at the concert should feel no more and no less on the cd. But, very few even among professional mic companies, and editing studios, and bands, and yadda yadda, have achieved that level of quality. Every single mix in this competition is clearly mixed and edited...Obviously that was your intention right! To see who could create the most solid and creative mix for the same song. Well here is what as a musician I hope mixers will work for in the future....accuracy of the enviornment...My orchestral snare sounds awesome in the enviornment of a large or medium size performance hall; Yet it is very hard to get the accuracy of the punch and sounds from the entire drum onto a recording. If you want to know what great recording and editing would be, start with seeing how much listening of the colors in the instruments there are, and then find a way to get as many of them as possible to be recorded without obviously overbalancing the entire recording...Oh wait...I bet someone is going to say that it's impossible to record exactly what a humans ears and physical self hear/feel in a live performance....Bull...It impossible because no one has done that yet...But I still spend horus rehearsing on my drums and instrumentalists on theirs to get the best sound possible out of the instrument, whether in orchestras or rock bands, only for mixers to dick around and "tweak" the sound to what they think sounds awesome...HAH you know what sounds better than the man or woman who plays the instrument or wrote the piece of music or conducted it? Well I be durned...Nonethless continue your competition. I do like jazzmangs and straves because they have atleast not dumbed the drums down to pillow-stuffed hardcore dead sounding or entirely low-frequency and no attack drums...However in the into i generally enjoy everyone's guitar sounds..Thats because most of you just made it louder or softer..The french horn shows musical color and was awesome...the guys voice sucks and thats definitely personal opinion. Peace out people.

Spangler
 
thajeremy said:
ok...i tried once again...

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Much better.
Your drums sound pretty good, and not overdone either.
On the vocal delay, i would cut some of the HF bounceback if possible, it gets a little weird with sibilants in the vocal track.

Otherwise, very good. Bass is very smooth. I like.
 
JazzMang said:
Much better.
Your drums sound pretty good, and not overdone either.
On the vocal delay, i would cut some of the HF bounceback if possible, it gets a little weird with sibilants in the vocal track.

Otherwise, very good. Bass is very smooth. I like.
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I like it too... only things that should be better in my opinion is the vocals (there is that weird delay thing and it sounds like there are too many low mids, like you're overcompensating for the crap of the mic)... and then the kick doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned.

But other than that I think it sounds really good.
 
Strave said:
...I could have held them to the original disgusting voice. I thought it was unpleasant...

...In the end I feel I have no right to attack your mix, and you have no right to attack mine...
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But you have the right to attack a bystander? Come on man. Suppose the band is lurking the forum? Is it really necessary to to voice your negative opinion about the vocalist who graciously supplied the tracks you're mixing?
 
caryindy said:
But you have the right to attack a bystander? Come on man. Suppose the band is lurking the forum? Is it really necessary to to voice your negative opinion about the vocalist who graciously supplied the tracks you're mixing?
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I'm sorry... I also think Franz Ferdinand's vocalist sounds bad and numerous other huge bands... it's nothing against the guys ability, I just don't like the sound. It reminds me of simple plan and I don't like that either. I apologize if I made anyone feel bad, but it's important to know that one person's despise of an aspect of music is another person's love.
 
This is why the best recording are compressed heavily? Come on. Look at the best masterers of the day... The Lord-Alge Brothers... they mix amazingly well and the music is loud, but shows no signs of overcompression. Loudness *is* key with rock.sorry
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To whoever this was that made the above comment to me along with the negative feedback.....
{hmmm - who could it possibly be I wonder???}

Yes - commercial music is heavily compressed - the difference being that it is done mostly transparently.... Strave's mix is a good example of heavy compression that is very overdone - meaning you clearly hear where and when it kicks in. And overcompression makes a mix sound as amateurish as a novice with a brand new reverb unit......... sorry. :rolleyes:
 
I'll have to agree with Bear on this, when I listen to some mixes and it already sounds like it playing though a radio, it's not a good thing. But sadly as Strave states it a different gen. for the first time in sound recording history the actual acceptable audio quality is taking steps backwards (well you could count alot of those early CDs as a step backwards), look at DVD/SACD not catching on, but low bitrate downloads and ripping have, I'm sure that eventally people will tire of the lower quality and or the technology will catchup and surpass current CD standards but still keep the portability, until then ...
 
The first post said, "you can do anything you like"
Sooooo.........I did!
Hope the band doesn't hate me but ummmm I joined the band.
For what it's worth my Wife and Daughter both thought the band was awesome. (Yes including the singer). Actually the Singer was mostly what impressed them.

My mix : )



CGibson
 
I once again will have to disagree with ds21.
Audio quality is not going downhill.
The Average Joe Blow now prefers convenience over anything else, so file-sharing and other methods of information sharing (that have bandwidth constraints) play an important role in what people like and are willing to live with.
As far as audio quality taking steps backwards... are you still using cassette tapes and 8-tracks? to deny the leaps and bounds made in audio technology would be to deny the very essence of why we can do what we do in our homes. You think that today's master mastering and mixing engineers are all wrong in their methodology? WRONG! The fact that DVD/SACD not catching on is *not* a matter of public acceptance, it is a matter of politics and economics and price, nothing more.
 
CGibson said:
The first post said, "you can do anything you like"
Sooooo.........I did!
Hope the band doesn't hate me but ummmm I joined the band.
For what it's worth my Wife and Daughter both thought the band was awesome. (Yes including the singer). Actually the Singer was mostly what impressed them.

My mix : )



CGibson
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atleast you changed that horrendous "guitar solo". i dont think yours really fits the style... just my opinion though...
 
jdalziel said:
i dont think yours really fits the style
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That's what they said to Eddie when He played "Beat It"
he he he.

Ten Billion Records later they said "OK maybe it does"

It's all in fun anyway.
Rock On!
 
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