Battles Of The Heart
- Thread starter BroKen_H
- Start date
jimistone
long standing member
Man Ian this is really good. I remember when you were tossing around making a song out of war sounds. It sounds amazing! I think you've don't a good job in the lyrics as well. If I had a nit to pick it would be that the high note you hit with your voice at the start of each verse is a little pitchy. It sounds like it's almost out of your normal singing range and you are straining to hit it. It may sound better to go an octave lower on that note.
Great song man!
Great song man!
BroKen_H
Re-member
It is exactly the note above where I can comfortably hit. I'm working on some VC exercises to get my voice to hit that sucker. Got it on the first, but the rest went downhill fast. Friend of mine named Dan Harris wrote the lyrics back in the 90s (it was a poem--that's why no verse/chorus structure).
BTW, who's Ian?
BTW, who's Ian?
dobro
Well-known member
Jimistone noticed the vocal stretch that comes across as a yelp. You're doing it in Cm. Why not drop it to Am and save yourself worlds of work and suffering?
What I noticed is that good as this arrangement is, you could actually get more power out of this tune if you slowed it down and did it gently. Probably not your style though. That's how I'd do it though. Slow and a bit sad.
What I noticed is that good as this arrangement is, you could actually get more power out of this tune if you slowed it down and did it gently. Probably not your style though. That's how I'd do it though. Slow and a bit sad.
mjbphotos
Moderator
There's another note that sounds like a stretch, too. Where the break is in the song around 2:24, I'd like to hear some dynamic change down in volume - it sounds/looks like the track has been squashed/limited to be fairly uniform throughout. Slowing down the tempo just a bit might allow better enunciation of the lyrics.
jimistone
long standing member
Typo sorry
BroKen_H
Re-member
Hmm. Listening to Dobro's plan in my head and thinking. Drop to Am or even Bm would get the note in range. Playing slower would make the guitar part playable and the lyrics more distinct. I'm also thinking of doing one of those tape stop moments between "to hell forevermore" and "When suddenly...mighty trumpet" with a trumpet blast between...not sure how that would sound, but I think I'll try that. One thing that was missing in my mind all along was that trumpet blast. Working on a version with building vocal effect too. To me it really fits the song well.
Maybe not all the way through, but this was an experiment that I really liked the sound of. Maybe it needs to get a little more pronounced.
Maybe not all the way through, but this was an experiment that I really liked the sound of. Maybe it needs to get a little more pronounced.
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BroKen_H
Re-member
It is so good to know that real rock lives and is doing well!! I like the battle song so much
Wow, thanks. Really! I've listened to both versions, and I think the one with preverb effectively hides the vocal problems so well that it's barely perceptible. I've got to fix the "arrives" bit, and possibly add the tape stop/trumpet blast. This one's almost in the bag.
kindafishy
Member
Epic feeling track.
I like how the battle sounds kind of merge into the drum beat. That's a nice touch.
I listened to both versions. I like the preverb (and I want to know how you are doing that). It might even be more effective if it was used less because it could give the listener that "whoa, what was that" kind of vibe.
The vocals are coming across to me just a little too hot in both versions. Either that, or there are some low upper mid frequencies that are having them really cut through the mix, and this could be ever so slightly attenuated.
Interesting and cool choice of sounds for the kick and snare. These take the song into a bit of a cinematic kind of direction.
Many of the instruments sound like they have a reduced sense of attack to them. This has the effect of pushing everything into the background and reducing definition. I am getting this sense from all instruments. Perhaps this is your intention, but I was just wondering if it was.
I like where this is headed. I am a big fan of cinematic and epic pieces. Nice jpb!
I like how the battle sounds kind of merge into the drum beat. That's a nice touch.
I listened to both versions. I like the preverb (and I want to know how you are doing that). It might even be more effective if it was used less because it could give the listener that "whoa, what was that" kind of vibe.
The vocals are coming across to me just a little too hot in both versions. Either that, or there are some low upper mid frequencies that are having them really cut through the mix, and this could be ever so slightly attenuated.
Interesting and cool choice of sounds for the kick and snare. These take the song into a bit of a cinematic kind of direction.
Many of the instruments sound like they have a reduced sense of attack to them. This has the effect of pushing everything into the background and reducing definition. I am getting this sense from all instruments. Perhaps this is your intention, but I was just wondering if it was.
I like where this is headed. I am a big fan of cinematic and epic pieces. Nice jpb!
BroKen_H
Re-member
The preverb is really kinda simple. I recorded the vocal track. I moved the vocal track 300ms backward. I made a parallel track with 100% wet plate. I then ran the original track through a 300ms delay. You hear 300ms of the plate reverb before you hear the vocal.
The vocals have 1k pushed a bit and it brings them forward and clear (to compensate for the plate). I'll pull the vocal bus back and that will pull the vocal and the effect off a bit.
The instruments are mostly, just over compressed. I just got my monitoring situation fixed and I've yet to go back over my stuff. I'll pull a bunch of compression off as well and then compress as a master with Density.
If you hadn't heard, I bought M-Audio M3-8s and they're 220W each
. So I had to pull the volumes back on the masters when I listened to my music (which affects the compressors greatly) and when I pump the mains back up to render, it skews the compression really hard. I just hooked up a splitting mixer so I can pull the volumes down on both sets of my monitors (Rokit 5's) and listen to either/or. Also just learned that the best way to apply mastering compression is to a stereo limiter from a stereo track, not on the master bus...This whole show is a constant learning game. 
The vocals have 1k pushed a bit and it brings them forward and clear (to compensate for the plate). I'll pull the vocal bus back and that will pull the vocal and the effect off a bit.
The instruments are mostly, just over compressed. I just got my monitoring situation fixed and I've yet to go back over my stuff. I'll pull a bunch of compression off as well and then compress as a master with Density.
If you hadn't heard, I bought M-Audio M3-8s and they're 220W each
. So I had to pull the volumes back on the masters when I listened to my music (which affects the compressors greatly) and when I pump the mains back up to render, it skews the compression really hard. I just hooked up a splitting mixer so I can pull the volumes down on both sets of my monitors (Rokit 5's) and listen to either/or. Also just learned that the best way to apply mastering compression is to a stereo limiter from a stereo track, not on the master bus...This whole show is a constant learning game. 
Tadpui
Well-known member
Listening to mix #2...
Sound quality overall is pretty damn good. The low end sounds terrific here. The vocals are indistinct, masked by the reverse reverb. I'd use it more as a spot effect rather than over the whole vocal.
I like the guitar wall of sound, although it gets a little tiring after a while. I think that each guitar (rhythm/solo) and the keyboard all need a little more room to themselves, they seem to bleed together in the EQ spectrum, creating a wash.
Nice playing on the guitar, and a good 80s metal song! I'll leave my comments on the subject matter at the door
Sound quality overall is pretty damn good. The low end sounds terrific here. The vocals are indistinct, masked by the reverse reverb. I'd use it more as a spot effect rather than over the whole vocal.
I like the guitar wall of sound, although it gets a little tiring after a while. I think that each guitar (rhythm/solo) and the keyboard all need a little more room to themselves, they seem to bleed together in the EQ spectrum, creating a wash.
Nice playing on the guitar, and a good 80s metal song! I'll leave my comments on the subject matter at the door
kindafishy
Member
The preverb is really kinda simple. I recorded the vocal track. I moved the vocal track 300ms backward. I made a parallel track with 100% wet plate. I then ran the original track through a 300ms delay. You hear 300ms of the plate reverb before you hear the vocal.
The vocals have 1k pushed a bit and it brings them forward and clear (to compensate for the plate). I'll pull the vocal bus back and that will pull the vocal and the effect off a bit.
The instruments are mostly, just over compressed. I just got my monitoring situation fixed and I've yet to go back over my stuff. I'll pull a bunch of compression off as well and then compress as a master with Density.
If you hadn't heard, I bought M-Audio M3-8s and they're 220W each
Thanks for the preverb tips! I'm definitely going to borrow this from you. It really does sound awesome.
Makes sense what you are saying about the compression. It must depend on the DAW. I use REAPER, and it has a post-FX fader, so it doesn't affect any of the FX that are sitting on the 2-bus. It's really nice.
8 inch woofers
Now that is serious business. How do they sound? I used to have a pair of M-Audio AV40's. I didn't like them at all. I found them to be very, very inaccurate. They actually sounded good, but consumer grade bookshelf good. That is of course, not ideal for mixing as they always hid the truth from me.
The M3-8 look like a different story altogether.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks for the encouragement. Finally getting my ears tuned to a good room and great monitors. I thought the same on the vocal, maybe just the words leading into each (In Dark, etc.) Then through the part where there's less instruments just for flavor. I left it off the last line of each verse to see how it sounds turning it on and off, and it's not bad at all.
I like the guitar wall of sound, although it gets a little tiring after a while. I think that each guitar (rhythm/solo) and the keyboard all need a little more room to themselves, they seem to bleed together in the EQ spectrum, creating a wash.
Nice playing on the guitar, and a good 80s metal song! I'll leave my comments on the subject matter at the door
Glad you can appreciate it, even if it's not your cup of joe.
BroKen_H
Re-member
Thanks for the preverb tips! I'm definitely going to borrow this from you. It really does sound awesome.
Makes sense what you are saying about the compression. It must depend on the DAW. I use REAPER, and it has a post-FX fader, so it doesn't affect any of the FX that are sitting on the 2-bus. It's really nice.
8 inch woofers
Now that is serious business. How do they sound? I used to have a pair of M-Audio AV40's. I didn't like them at all. I found them to be very, very inaccurate. They actually sounded good, but consumer grade bookshelf good. That is of course, not ideal for mixing as they always hid the truth from me.
The M3-8 look like a different story altogether.
These monitors are amazing. My only problem has been with Reason, the faders control the volume of the speakers directly. Not sure, but I think that's the norm for all DAWs. I had to insert a splitting mixer externally as when I use the faders, I get compression problems. When I don't and insert a virtual mixer in Reason to control the volumes, it controls the volumes the same way to the renders. The Behri line mixer I bought was just the trick. Still have to pump a little to get good mixes, but I like to mix around 85-90dB anyway
. You've got to get them to a decent pump to get the bass response right, but I assume that's the same with any 200+ watt speaker system running at 1W.