Nirvana

lyle christine

New member
Hi there, My band are currently recording a home demo, but we'd like to get close to the sound of one of our influences, Nirvana.
We need help with mixing, things like, compresion to use, guitar eq, drum eq, vocal effects, etc. We especially like the sound of Nevermind and 'dive' from incesticide.
Any help much appreciated
Thanks Lyle Christine(lylechristine@hotmail.com)
 
got money?

"Then, after Dave Grohl joined the band, the new stuff was recorded at Sound City in Los Angeles. That's pretty much a no-frills studio. It has a big, live tracking room, there's an old Neve board, a 24-track analogue Studer tape machine, a good collection of tube mics, some nice LA2A compressors, but not a lot of outboard gear."

Recording was approached very much from the live perspective, with the drummer set up in the middle of the room and the bass and guitars isolated for separation. Nonetheless, Vig was determined to push the band in order to achieve the right results, and to this end he had Krist Novoselic redo some of his bass parts and Kurt Cobain performing quite a number of guitar overdubs. "He doubled a lot of the rhythm guitars," Vig recalls, "and he overdubbed clean and distorted tracks in almost all of the little solo sections."

Band and producer shared the engineering credit for the album, yet Vig confirms that this was hardly the truth of the matter. So, does this mean that Kurt, Krist and Dave were the only ones with their fingers on the faders? "Er, no... At the time almost every project that I was involved with had me co-producing and engineering," says Vig. "I had kind of grown up in the punk scene, when a lot of the bands wanted to have a say in everything, so I didn't particularly care if I had solo credit for that stuff. In fact, if you look at a lot of the records that I've done since then, many of them say that they are co-productions, whatever that means. The bands' input may be marginal, but I still like to collaborate."

EXTRA DRY
Utilising a Neumann U67 and an LA2A, most of Cobain's vocals were recorded in the small Studio B at Sound City and ran straight to tape. The results alternate between a smooth, compressed, phasey sound and one of extreme dryness when the voice sits alone, yet minimal effects were employed. "Kurt really had an amazing voice," confirms the producer. "He could scream and it would have this great rasp and tone to it, and yet he could also bring it down really quiet and sound so world-weary and exhausted and intimate. It's hard to put your finger on it, but not many artists have that kind of voice or persona. Kurt had this brilliant pop sensibility in terms of melodic structure and phrasing, and yet he loved the attitude of punk, and those are the two things that collided and made Nirvana so special.

"In the studio I used a fair amount of compression on the vocals so that I could control his dynamics, and I also got Kurt to do some double-tracking. I'm a big fan of doubling, particularly on choruses, so he did that quite a bit on the record and that's part of what the sound is. Andy Wallace, the mix engineer, had a little bit of tight slap echo -- almost a double echo -- on a couple of the songs, and he also used a little bit of reverb and so on, but for the most part the vocals were left fairly dry. That really was the approach that the band and myself wanted to take. We didn't want to have it too washed out with reverb or echo, and it was the same with the drums and the guitars; we wanted everything to be fairly dry and in your face.

"I actually started getting more and more into recording everything very dry, and getting away from ambient mics, when I worked on Gish with Smashing Pumpkins. Everything would be really in your face, and then if you wanted to add reverb or echo later you could. You could put it farther back in the mix, but if we wanted something to be way up front in the mix you could also do that. That's how I've worked on pretty much all of the records since then. I don't really like to record with a lot of ambience, particularly on vocals or guitars. I will put ambient mics on the drums, but I also like to have tight mics.

"In the case of Dave Grohl's kit I used an AKG D12 and a FET 47 on the kick, and then we built a drum tunnel consisting of old drum shells attached to the bass drum and extended out about six feet. That way you can move a mic back three to four feet, and the FET 47 was a little farther away from where the front head would have been. By having the drum tunnel, you isolate the room, so that you don't get all of the cymbal bleed, or whatever."

Otherwise the drum miking was fairly standard: a Shure SM57 on the snare, along with an AKG 451, Sennheiser 421s on the toms, AKG 414s and Neumann KM84s on the cymbals, and Neumann U87s for distant room mics.

DISTORTED REALITY
The guitars, on the other hand, were a different story, often characterised by assorted types of distortion and, in some cases, a sound so overdriven that the end result bears little resemblance to the instrument that originated it.

"Aside from a Marshall on just a few things, the amps that we primarily used were a Mesa Boogie, a Fender Bassman -- which is one of my favourites -- and a Vox AC30 for the cleaner overdriven sounds," Vig recalls. "However, there's not a lot of processing going on. Kurt had a Rat distortion pedal that he used on a couple of songs, and on a track like 'Breed' we just DI'd the Rat, we didn't go to an amp. We split the signal and we ran it to an amp, and we also took the DI and ran it right into the board so that it had much more of a fuzzy white-noise kind of sound to it. Then we blended the two together to get something that sounded cool."

The extremely warm, fuzzy sounds f Novoselic's bass guitar also resulted from a combination of DI and miking. "I like to put a couple of mics on the bass, even though I usually only end up using one," says Vig. "On Nevermind we placed a FET 47 and a Sennheiser RE20, and we then just used the 47, which has more of a thumpy, mid-range sound to it. Krist used an Ampeg SVT amp, which I'm a big fan of, while in terms of the DI I don't like to use normal DIs. I use a customised Tech 21 Sansamp, and I have a live split, so you can use it as a DI but it produces more of an amp sound. You can dirty it up, you can add some tone to it, and it's just much more usable as a DI signal as opposed to a straight DI, which to me sounds really thin.

"As for that kind of washy sound on 'Come As You Are', that was an effect that Kurt had, called the Small Clone, which is basically just a flangy chorus box but with a very distinctive sound. It's really kind of wide and watery. Not subtle, put it that way. Then we double-tracked his guitars on that so it had even more of a wide sound to it."

-travis
 
uhmmm.... are you telling me you own (at least some of ) those mics? not to mention the big room and shit...

guhlenn
 
no, your right Gidge... if only the big hair '80 rock bands would be still alive... THEN rock music would be saved.

what is rock music anyway?

guhlenn
 
...man I miss Poison......but thats not the point....the REAL rock music made it out of the 80's alive (Bon Jovi, Aerosmith,so on).....I like the direction grunge music took rock, but Im sorry, Nirvana sucked.....
 
Nirvana sucks?

so do Poison, Bon Jovi, and Aerosmith...I dont wanna get into a fight, but c'mon Gidge, how can you say someone sucked? You may not like their music, but they didnt suck.
 
Its just an opinion.....I guess its not right to say they sucked.....maybe Ill just say "I" think they sucked.....I think there are some deep personal issues involved here for me.....when I see people worship and idolizing Curt Cobain, it sickens me because it, in a sense, glorifies suicide....rock music took a new direction with grunge and I liked some of it, but I dont think Nirvana was all that....I definitely dont wanna fight, either, especially over opinions....Im rambling but my nerves have been on edge lately and when Im like this the only way I can deal with it in a therapeutic way is to express myself completely...whether my opinions are right or wrong I dont know.....So I hearby apologize for saying they suck (but I still dont like them)....I as an artist respect anybody who puts their thoughts and emotions out for the world to see....and to think I jumped someone in a post for saying Creeds songwriting sucks (and Im not wild about them either)...I was wrong to say what I said, using my post to attack a band over a personal issue....
 
In popular music today there is so much copycatting and follow the leader that when anyone manages to break through with anything that is even vaguely original they are hailed as a genius or messiah. Nirvana was a cool band, they had some good songs, I liked em and bought a couple of their albums. Their hype was however way out of proportion, but I guess you have to blame that on the record company and the fan magazines.
 
you like Bon Jovi???

IMHO that's the corniest, "every bit of real emotion sucked out of it" music I ever heard. They aren't even happy to play a complete sold-out stadium... they embody the true "corporate rock whores" to quote Nirvana.

;)guhlenn
 
god dammit, who cares

i really hate the way that these forums turn into pathetic bitchyness. people dont want to hear some idiot chipping in their ten cents worth of 'the state of music today....yawn yawn' and who's band is better......snore. I just asked a question and wanted some straight answers.
DONT post something saying 'this doesn't answer your question but.........', thats so dumb! How will that help me?? All i wanted was a couple of answers.....jeez...
 
i'm sorry to say this board DOES NOT revolve around you. you did have your question answered as your own reply proves.

...Jeez...
 
well she is. but her question was answered as she said. now she could have said something like " hmmm this is not the info i wanted please tell me some more on... (fill in the blank)" but here reply didn't fill me with enthousiasm to get her the info she needs.

if i could that is.

But that's not the point. this thread is wandering off right now as i'm typing. she asked a question and one thing let to another. that aint wrong. shit happens. she could have asked in a normal way to get back on the subject. i don't ask " tell me right now what i want to know you st*pid f*ck". being somewhat more polite usually helps more in getting what you want.

guhlenn ;)
 
All apologies

I'm sorry, yes I completely agree I shouldn't have been so rude, but it is frustrating when I go into a forum question and I have to wade through pages of irrelevent, coincedental material when all I wanted was a simple answer.
Don't get me wrong, I love debates about music, but come on guys, you have to admit these rooms aren't the place for it. It just cloggs up the whole system.
Discussions are one thing, but when you gut a guy who's pissed off because his favourite band don't exist anymore, or he's just woken up and realised it isn't actually 1989, and he comes in starts having ago at Nirvana, and has the arrogance to waste my time and his own with childish remarks that nobody cares about then it makes me real mad. I'll try and be more eserved in future and hope everyone else will be too.

P.S. Guhlenn, LYLE is a boy's name!
 
sorry bout your name DUDE i honestly didn't mean to call you a girl just to make fun of you, i guessed you were a girl.
and your right again, we did wander off. ok now we both admitted to be somewhat harsh... sorry bout that.

;)guhlenn
 
btw, KELLY is a DUDE's name, too. :D

Would this not be an appropriate thread for Nirvana "remembrance?" We were at the beach for our summer get-out-and-gos and I remember having woken up to... uh... whathisname... Kurt Loder talking about the whole suicide situation, and the whole day was grey and overcast and windy and I was hungover and blah and bleh and such. People remember JFK and such; I wasn't around for that. Kurt Cobain was probably the closest we'll have this generation...

Hey, Lyle? Man, I understand where you're comin' from, but if we kept all the threads straight and narrow, this place would read like a manual :(. As long as you get the answers you're looking for, the system works, and if you haven't found what you're asking about, ask again when the banter has subsided (or during, whatever). Also, this might be something more appropriate for the recording techniques, guitar/bass, and microphone forums, yet it was proabably either easier to post it here (no biggie) or you weren't familiar with the set-up here (no biggie). Please don't take offense to the banter (no biggie), because it's gonna happen anyway...
 
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