can somebody teach me?

A

artCROSS

New member
For the past few months, i've been going on this forum, taking as much advice as i could. Practically everything i've bought for my home "studio" has been because of what people have said on here. After months of practicing, I finally recorded and mixed an entire song from my band.

I was a little hesitant at first to post this, because i'm a little embarassed at it. I know the mixing is not good at all...it sometimes makes my ears hurt listening to it. All eq'ing was done with advice from this board, you know, places to start. However, I don't know which direction to go now. I know there something wrong, but i'm not sure how to fix it...and I figured, i'm never gonna learn if i don't ask anyone.

So here it is. Please give me as much criticism and possible solutions, but also please be gentle. I am still young and learning, as is my band, so please don't be too harsh on the actual music.

http://www.purevolume.com/youhavefive/music
The song is called Each Day, Visible.

Thanks to anyone in advance for taking the time to do this
 
Overheads/room need more compression and to be quieter in the mix. The cymbal work at the beginning sounds pretty duff.

Vocals are pretty 'pitchy' at times.

Guitar a bit blurry... needs to come up a bit.

Can't feel the bass enough.

Kick drum seems distant and 'squashes' rather than thumps.

Whoa--at about 1:30 something really weird happens to the stereo imaging. I think it was intentional, but it's a little *too* jarring.

Lead guitar tone isn't good at the end. Panned too hard as well. Really sour sounding.

Tips:

First off, more house cleaning needs to be done on the audio. Edit the waveforms a little more carefully, I can hear some strange bits in them that I think are little start/stops of waves, or places that should be silenced.

Way too much hard panning of elements... things should *tend* to be near the center. Flashy stereo tricks are a sure sign of an amature! Pay attention to your panorama.

Watch your low and high ends and make sure they are tight, focused and clear. Right now the highs aren't silky enough, and the lows a bit weak and tubby.

More kick/snare, less overheads. Overheads are a subtle thing, but the elements that drive this song are definately the kick and snare, so those need to slam a bit more.

I would reckon to say you need to do LESS when mixing than what you did do--you just need to figure out the right things TO do.

Verdict:

This is great for a first time recording!!! You should be proud. The mistakes you made are all *extremely* common mistakes that everyone makes first starting out.

Congrats! Great job. Just keep plugging away and you'll have this nailed before you know it.
 
those are great tips.

its good to use the EQ and other tips u learn about but in the end you need to trust your ears.

your singer has a very cool voice and has a lot of potential. he just needs to work on his pitch. maybe he just needs to stay in a certian range. i know thats what i try to do.

when mixing down, try first soloing the drums and bass first and add the rest of the elements to the mix one at a time mixing in the vocals last. thats what i usually do.
 
artCross,

first off, for being your first "official" recording project you've done a wonderful job. you definitely have good ears as things sounded more natural than overtly enhanced.

i'll leave most of the audio tips to the others on the board...i will mention that the second vocalist is a bit buried when he has his solos...and that overall the entire mix seems as if there's a wool blanket covering it.

i agree with the snippet on the "flashy stereo tricks"...at this point i'd leave them out...

what i would like to really comment on is the music...simply because your band does have talent and there are some points that need to be addressed...

the previous posts mentioned the singer, and while there are a few things which could be worked on there, i'd like to focus on the:

rhythm and tempo. it needs to be tighter and more consistent.
this to me was the most glaring thing which needed attention...before the mix itself.

the song DESPERATELY needs a rock-solid steady beat...
right now it is fluctuating unintentionally within a single phrase.
and when you intentionally speed up or slow down, it isn't done as smoothly/musically as it could be (this could be solved by emphasizing only certain beats per measure, esp. 1 and 4-leading-to-1.).

also remember that this is a short song...try not to subject your audience to too many tempo variations... less is definitely more here.
i'm trying to groove to one tempo and before it is even locked in (the unintentional tempo changes) the song takes off to another (intentional tempo change)...etc.

and while the group is together on the beats...you guys are not locked together inbetween the beats. this can be solved if you subdivide the beats internally...and actually physically pay attention to the rhythms you guys are playing so that they are nice-and-neat vs. done-by-feel.

pay attention to the drum fill-ins too...because the beat gets lost there at times, especially towards the end of the song. those fill-ins should generally stay within tempo.

finally, each of the musicians is doing great things on their own, but it's too much when put together. just like a good mix...each person's part should be arranged so that they lock together like a puzzle rather than compete for the same space. again, less-is-more. which is why i loved the solo keyboard run. ..it was the one point where a definable space was given.

you'll still have all the energy, but it will be a lot tighter and defined.

to be brutally honest i'd look to re-record the parts with these points in mind before you start slaving over the mix more...

...because in the end it is about the music...and the performance doesn't do your group justice...just a few tweaks and it would be rocking...

...hope this can help your group some....best of luck!
 
What are you monitoring on? It sounds as though you didn't have a clear image of the song while you were mixing, which may be why you cranked the pan and EQ so much. All remarks about style aside, the blend is not right. The drums are up front without having the presence they should, so that the vocals and the drums are fighting each other. Less jangle on the drum kit would let the vocals ride on top better and make the lyrics more intelligible. It's an energetic song: the changes of pace help to make the drive harder when it happens, IMO. Nice try. Get some decent monitors, or properly set up what you have. The basics are there, as far as performance and quality of song, but it needs to testify a little more instead of being chickens running around clucking.
 
Thanks for all the replies! this is why i love this board, people are always willing to help.

When i first started the mixdown, I was monitoring with digital reference cans (I know, i know...) b/c I couldn't afford monitors at the time. however, I just bought a pair of krk rp5s. This is when i started hearing the things that were wrong with the song.

A couple of comments/questions:
The reason my OH are up so high is because my drummer wanted his toms to be heard more. I don't have tom mics, so I turned up to OH. Anyway around this save for buying new mics?

As for silky high ends and thumpy low ends...to be honest, I'm not sure exactly how these sound like (I know it probably should be common sense. I have an idea about thumpy low end). How does this sound like/how do i achieve it? I'm thinking maybe better mic placement.

I don't have a place to record save for an empty room in my house...it used to be a car hold, so the walls are thin and hollow. There's no separate room to track, so I can't really hear the instruments through monitors. The first time I really hear them is when I do playback in my bedroom where i do my mixing. Any advice?

I'm not too happy with the distorted guitar sound I recorded (this is including the guitar solos). Can anybody record a good distorted guitar sound for this type of music and post it just so I can compare the sound? When I try to compare to other CDs of bands like this, I can't separate the guitar from the rest of the mix. I'm recording a behringer ultratwin gx212 with its distortion chanel rather than a distortion pedal. I use a sm57 and a SP B1 and mix them together. Still trying to work on a good mic placement, but I can't tell the difference when i move them around.

Since this recording, my drummer finally broke down and has been taking drum lessons. He's a lot tighter now, and no longer "showboats" when playing, so he's not trying to impress anyone with his fancy long fills anymore. I'm going online and looking up ways to improve my piano/guitar/and vocal skills as I can't afford lessons right now. Any basic advice on this subject would be nice too.

Again, thanks to everyone for all the help. I can't wait to try out the advice you gave. I want to eventually record an album of my band, and maybe someday do this for money...this stuff is addicting!
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Personally I look to get the drums/bass happening and then bring in the vocals. Then you mix everything around those elements.
Click to expand...


I second this method!
 
artCROSS said:
A couple of comments/questions:
The reason my OH are up so high is because my drummer wanted his toms to be heard more. I don't have tom mics, so I turned up to OH.
Click to expand...

Sometimes you can learn some interesting techniques by seeing what someone else would have done. In this scenario I would have done one of four things:

1.) Compress the overheads a little more to even out the toms/cymbals.

OR

2.) Raise the overhead track volume during tom fills, and take it back down to normal when they are over.

3.) A combination of 1 & 2.

4.) Copy the overhead tracks and re-label them "TOMS", then I would cut/silence the parts that weren't tom fills--leaving only the rolls. Then I would process these with some fairly heavy, punchy compression and EQ that was different from your overheads (my rule of thumb: boost at 5khz). I would mix this in with the overheads to add some oomph during the rolls.

artCROSS said:
Anyway around this save for buying new mics?
Click to expand...

Might as well. Some drummers are incredibly fussy about their toms and will throw a coniption fit if you don't mic them. Other guys don't need much more than overheads, kick and snare on them. Depends on the drummer, style and feel.
 
That is a good song. I cant comment on the mix much. It sound a tad muffled, like an oldies mix.

Anyhow, I am not much of a mix engineer, but I can teach you some of what I've learned.

1. K.I.S.S
1. Keep It Simple Silly

Always remember that being a good mix engineer is not about tweaking things but achieving a good sound with the least tweaking possible.

Keep it simple with the ingredients. Take an instrument and work on that till you've got it down pat. Work on your drum RECORDING till you cant make it better. ONly then should you go to the guitars etc
 
First of all, I hear oodles of potential in your band. Singer has a nice timbre to his voice.

I think you have received some good suggestions. But to take it a little further, it may (or may not) be helpful if you post the tools that you have at hand for recording.
 
Ok, well here's how what I did:

I recorded the drums first. ATM25 on the kick OUTSIDE the resonant head (there's no hole...want to try and get a new head for him so I can put the mic closer to the beater). SM57 on snare, about 1-2" from the center on top. 2 mxl603s as OH, stereo spacing, each equidistant from the bass and snare (about 36in").

Then I recorded the bass. I used an ART Tube MP as a DI, plus I also mic'ed his amp with the ATM25. Blended to taste.

I just plugged the piano directly in. Next time I might try using the ART as a DI.

As for guitars, I mic'ed my amp (Behringer Ultratwin GX212) with an SP B1 and the SM57. The 57 seemed very thin by itself, lacking in the low end. I'm still having a lot of trouble with mic placement...I guess my ears aren't trained enough b/c when i tried moving them around, i couldn't tell much of a difference. I then overdubbed with another guitar part and panned them hard left and right.

Here's the stuff I've accumulated over the past few months:
LDC: Studio Projects B1, MXL V67g
SDC: MXL603s (2)
Dynamics: SM57, ATM25, a slew of radioshack mics (maybe i could use these for toms?)
Behringer Eurorack UB2442fxpro (use it for the preamps)
Edirol FA-101 interface

Thanks for all the input, this is good stuff to work with.
 
It's refreshing to deal with someone who is actually recording, as opposed to the usual "tell me the best mic/preamp/cable/dahdahdahdahdah." You'll learn so much more hands-on than from simply soliciting open-ended advice. It's about SOUND, not WORDS.
 
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