After seven years of DAW, I will NEVER abandon tape again.

^^ that 43rd take is what makes you a better musician. once you're good, you don't need that many takes to record a part. that's one thing that is great about analog. i've greatly improved my timing/rhythm because of that.

recording analog teaches you that perfection does not equal "good".

also, being limited by how many tracks you can record shows you how much "less is better". i know a bunch of people who open ableton and put a bunch of useless shit to make a song that sounds like nothing.

recording analog forces me to sit down and work out the song before recording, as opposed to digital where i can immidiately open the program, start recording and then stop because i'm discouraged of not coming up with anything good.
 
I like working with tape. Don't need any reasons, justifications, tech specs or anything. I just like it.

If you like working in a certain medium, creation is more of a joy.

That’s good enough :)
 
I don't know if this will support your opinion, but anyone who loves listening to music, or better still, spends hours on end mixing and mastering day after day for hours on end day will know all about the phenomenom of 'listener fatigue'. Before very long, the sheer 'sonic detail' found in certain extreme hi-fidelity music reproduction and sonically complicated types of music begins to get on your nerves, and eventually your job becomes intolerable: you need to switch it off, turn your brain to something less demanding and go for a long walk in the park. I am not making this up, most engineers and musicians will have experienced this, and it's thought to be part of the science of 'psychoacoustics" which is still only dimly understood and has to do with human neurology and how the brain processes the input from your ears. Put crudely, enough incessant detail simply does your head in. But fortunately, there is an 'upside' too. When your tired out ears and brain are refreshed, you'll come back to your task with renewed enthusiasm, and better still, you'll probably notice problems with the sound that you had got so used to hearing that you'd unconsciously wiped them out and eventually failed to notice altogther: a classic case of 'not being able to see the forest for the trees'. Coming to the key point of your remarks, you wonder why you find the sound of analogue tape so much better than the strict and some would say cold 'clinical precision' of digitally reproduced sound. Well, it's a common cliche to say that analogue sound is somehow 'warmer' and more pleasing than what comes out of your DAW; many of us feel that way, but it gets us nowhere as to understanding if and WHY that might be the case, so here's two thoughts to ponder. First, it's well known that magnetic tape approaching 'saturation' creates a natural dynamic compression effect that you probably won't find in all but the very best digital 'analogue emulation' processors, and maybe not even then. This saturation - or strictly speaking 'distortion' - is somehow pleasing to the human ear, perhaps because in the natural environment in which our species has evolved over millions of years, that is how we are 'designed' to perceive all sound: it never comes in 'sanitised' little packets, there is always some sort of other extraneous sound going on to blend with what we intend to listen to, whether it be the slight rustling of leaves in the wind, or even the muffled approach of some stealthy predator. Our entire experience of sound is one of 'distortion' by everything else all around us, and never 'pure and unalloyed', the obvious example being 'reverberation', but that's just a start: we all exist in an 'ocean' of sound, just as fish live in water. Perhaps the natural compression of analogue tape comes near to that indefinable 'muddling' of the sonic world that we experience every day of our lives. Next point: because of the nature of the constantly varying magnetic fields on a fast moving tape, one area of magnetic strength will tend to subtley 'leach' into the next section: a physical reality of the magnetic medium that to the human ear is often described as 'smear'. Your recording machinery is quite literally 'smoothing out' the sound and microsecond by microsecond very slightly 'eliding' one into another, and so on and on as the tape progresses. It's almost as if an artist painting on canvas deliberately allowed his colours to 'bleed' slightly into each other, knocking off the hard edges and allowing an all but imperceptible 'blending' that is somehow easier on the eye and is aesthetically more satisfying than 'hard lines' and over-fussy detail. Translated from the visual arts to music, that is pretty much what your analogue tape is doing for you, and the more so as you begin to layer up a complicated multitrack recording. Perhaps all that helps answer your question.
 
My setup was a cheap Mackie 16 channel mixer for preamps, mic cables from Hosa, some SM57s, a couple budget small diaphragm condensers. I would record into the holy Tascam 38-8 with no processing, then mix in the box.

I should mention that this machine charmed me even without any calibration (I didn’t know what that was).

I understand why older recordists get a bad vibe comparing digital to analog, the sheer amount of PITA work required to use analog makes digital seem like a miracle. I’m seeing the same thing since I put together a dark room for my ContaX RX film camera. I often ask myself, “do I really need to photograph that?” thinking of all the work it’ll take.

Drums recorded to tape have a “magic glue” effect where they sound coherent, where in digital they always sounded sharp and harsh. The blur of tape reminds me of bhoka (sp?), the beautiful blurriness in the background of portraits.

I also noticed the young folks (20s) getting starry eyed upon seeing my reel to reel, they HAD to record to tape! I’m 36 now, this was six years ago when I had a good studio (built around my Mackie live mixer ��)
 
OP - I recently sold my FOSTEX R8, 7 inch reel to reel. Before I sold it, I transferred all my old tapes into my DAW for archival. Some of the raw acoustic guitars and raw vocals sounded so rich and warm. It sounded like the performers were right in the room with me. But having lived through the analog days, I will never go back. Digital has way too many advantages for me. I'm willing to sacrifice what analog gives me. Yes, I would like to record a project or 2 on analog, but it would have to be the right project.
 
Perhaps it has to do with the shape of the medium the wave form is recorded on? When we zoom in on a digital photo, we see squares. A digital photo captures a round photon with squares, so there will always be a mismatch, but a film photo captures round photons with round light sensitive particles. If we zoom in on a DAW wave, again we see squares. A rounded audio wave in the air is being represented with many tiny right angle movements. But with analog tape, the recording medium more closely matches the shape of what’s being recorded.

I think of it like a hologram. A hologram will have the entire image in any piece of itself. So we better make sure even the tiniest piece is what we want. How can I make a smooth circle from squares? No matter how sharp the digital resolution is, it never seems to capture the aliveness.

I may change my mind after I find out how much money tape will cost me. :facepalm:
 
AnalogApples said:
A rounded audio wave in the air is being represented with many tiny right angle movements. But with analog tape, the recording medium more closely matches the shape of what’s being recorded.
Click to expand...

While it is being stored as a series of data points, a proper Digital to Analog converter will smoothly transition between points through reconstruction filters and bandwidth limiting (which prevents aliasing). In addition, the sheer mass of any loudspeaker would smooth out any "right angles" as it simply doesn't have anywhere near the slew rate to distinguish between any two voltage points at 44.1kHz. There is no way you are hearing 44kHz square waves through any speaker.

My only comment on your "round photons"... Electromagnetic waves don't have a shape.
 
"My only comment on your "round photons"... Electromagnetic waves don't have a shape."

+1 Rich, whereas magnetic domains DO! Sort of 'spiky'.

Dave.
 
Nature is analog.
Human biological voices are analog.
Brains know the difference.

In 1988 I gave away all my LPs and went digital CD. 20 years later I hated listening to music. I bought a turntable and a small LP collection and instantly fell back in love with music. Go figure. Nature.
 
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DesertRatt said:
Nature is analog.
Human biological voices are analog.
Brains know the difference.

In 1988 I gave away all my LPs and went digital CD. 20 years later I hated listening to music. I bought a turntable and a small LP collection and instantly fell back in love with music. Go figure. Nature.
Click to expand...

My kid had been listening to digital music sources her whole life.
She just got a portable suitcase style turntable.
I never saw a grin so big as when she heard the original 45 of the Beatles yellow submarine.

Maybe it’s partly because she was part of the process??? Who knows. But to her it sounded better than it ever did.
 
DesertRatt said:
Nature is analog.
Human biological voices are analog.
Brains know the difference.
Click to expand...

Actually...the transferring of hearing (and vision) to the brain has some "digital like" processes...those sound waves don't just get injected into the brain as a continuous analog-like process.
Apparently when we hear & see there is a very high-rate cyclical thing going on...like the frames of a film. Also, there are processes that depends on the brain's electronics going on/off...kinda like 0s and 1s.

Of course, there are also many analog-like processes as part of that complete transfer of sound and vision from our ears and eyes to our brains and our consciousness...so I would say that it's really a hybrid thing.
:)


RFR said:
My kid had been listening to digital music sources her whole life.
Click to expand...

And whose fault was that? ;)
 
Haha what can I say? My vinyl collection had been stashed away for some time.

Hate to say it, but streaming and CDs are pretty damn convenient.
 
I get most of my music listening from the old-fashioned radio these days...mostly because when I'm working inside/outside , it's just the most convenient.
I have a small boom box radio that's gotta be 30+ years old...it has paint on it, the antenna has been broken and fixed, twice, it's been left out in the rain for two days...and it still works. :D

I get this one "music diversity" station...kinda from the Woodstock world, but they play a lot of modern music too, and all kinds of stuff...it's not locked into any specific type of music. They don't get into hard Rock flavors...but pretty much everything else....Blues, Alt, Indie, some Pop stuff...and also weird old music, World music, etc.
MOst of the other stations I can get are stuck in one flavor...and I don't listen to them. There are also a couple of "Classic Rock" stations...but they are too predictable...they play the same songs over and over...so like, if there is a Floyd or LZ song coming up...you can bet money on which one they will play, and it's the same one they played yesterday. :facepalm:
Some of those Classic Rock bands put out dozens of albums...but these stations play the top 3-4 songs, over and over. :yawn:
 
miroslav said:
Actually...the transferring of hearing (and vision) to the brain has some "digital like" processes...those sound waves don't just get injected into the brain as a continuous analog-like process.
Apparently when we hear & see there is a very high-rate cyclical thing going on...like the frames of a film. Also, there are processes that depends on the brain's electronics going on/off...kinda like 0s and 1s.

Of course, there are also many analog-like processes as part of that complete transfer of sound and vision from our ears and eyes to our brains and our consciousness...so I would say that it's really a hybrid thing.
:)




And whose fault was that? ;)
Click to expand...

There is a guy over at SoS forum who has had a cochlea implant and it is my understanding that these send 'sound' into the brain as a series of clicks? Eventually it seems the user begins to interpret these as meaningful sounds. He has been a dabbllng newb for about a year now but seems to get a lot of enjoyment out of recording and music in general.

And I wish peeps would stop with the 'resolution' thing? Doubling the sampling rate does NOTHING but double the upper frequency response*(at the expense of greater CPU usage of course) The 'bits' just decide the noise floor and of course should properly be called "word length".

I get what little 'digital' knowledge I have from people at SoS and these people TRAINED the people that worked at the BBC!

*There is a similar analogy with tape speed. You get another octave at the top but I NEVER heard anybody say that 30ips give you better RESOLUTION than 15ips!

Dave.
 
In general (very general) digital signalling is simply about efficiency and nothing else. The cost and ability to ship millions of unique streams to billions of outlets (ears, eyes, or whatever) simultaneously, is dirt cheap compared to any other process that came before it. It drives the cost (not price, but cost) of entertainment to near ZERO.

In exchange for the cheap entertainment, we give in to digital's tyranny - Big Data. The world went from not knowing much about your daily habits, to knowing damn near everything in less than 30 years. They know things they ought not know. And this data is all used to manage your future behaviors. Your past becomes a highly visible tail, and that tail is used to wag the dog - you.

We bought into it long before we knew what it was. Know we know, and it's too late to get out. Digital is Death Disguised.
 
DesertRatt said:
Digital is Death Disguised.
Click to expand...

Well...I wouldn't go that far...and of course, you can always opt for complete off-grid living, but hone up on your basic survival skills and forget about convenience of any kind. :D

Not to go off on some broader digital technology discussion here...but it's simultaneously interesting/funny/sad that what some of use would consider an invasion of privacy, other's call it convenience and personalization...they like the fact that when they open a browser, it "knows" what they want, the things they like to buy, the places they like to eat...that whole "Alexa" thing.
Yeah...in a hurry, it feels somewhat comforting that some artificial intelligence knows your every move...but, the tradeoffs are that you become nothing more than a data point, a stereotype for the AI to "serve", while it also continues to track your patterns and learn more and more about you.

Mmm...so where are the best off-off-grid destinations again...? ;) :p
 
DesertRatt said:
In exchange for the cheap entertainment, we give in to digital's tyranny - Big Data. The world went from not knowing much about your daily habits, to knowing damn near everything in less than 30 years. They know things they ought not know. And this data is all used to manage your future behaviors. Your past becomes a highly visible tail, and that tail is used to wag the dog - you.

We bought into it long before we knew what it was. Know we know, and it's too late to get out. Digital is Death Disguised.
Click to expand...


Man died. He shows up at the Pearly Gates to meet St Peter.

Except the Pearly Gates don’t look like anything he had ever envisioned. Looked just like the entrance to his neighborhood. Yet there stands St. Peter in his flowing robes welcoming him to heaven.

“How do I know this is heaven?” asks the man.......”It looks just like home.”

St Peter replies.... “It IS home”

Man responds.......”Then what makes it heaven???”

“Ah” says St Peter with a smile.....

“There’s no internet, no netflix, no cell phones, no spotify, no digital cameras, no television even, and all recorded music is analog, live music is in abundance, and finally...there’s no disease, nor social distancing.”

“Welcome home to heaven” he says with a big grin as he turns away.

“But, wait”..... says the man.

St Peter simply says..... “ You’ll get used to it.....it’s heaven ” :)
 
I can probably toss my cell phone today, and not care...I rarely turn it on, and that's only when I'm driving, and if I remember to. At home, I have a landline, and everyone knows to call me on that if they don't want to wait a week for me to respond to their cell phone voicemail.

Got no WiFi anywhere (I can turn it on, but it's always off) as I run all my network stuff with hardlines. It would be probably most difficult to toss the computer, because it's become THE main portal for news, shopping, information and wasting time...like now...:D...plus, it allows me NOT to have to go shopping for every little thing, which was a drag even before the virus, and had its own risks (you have to drive there, deal with some stupid people at times, stand in the long checkout lines, etc).

TV is like a 2-hour per day movie time thing, the unwind before I go to sleep...though some days I don't even turn it on...so I could potentially not miss the TV, but I do enjoy my movies (hate Netflix, their choices suck)...and there are no cameras here spying on me.

Social distancing...I don't need to do it at home...and there's no disease here, not counting my mental illness with all this studio/audio stuff...but as the saying goes, "there is a pleasure in being mad that only the madman knows. :)

I can certainly have all my music in analog...got all the gear I need for that! :p

So I may not be in quite heaven...but I'm going to make it feel like I am (as soon as I'm done with this new studio madness). :cool:
 
:thumbs up:

Ps. One is never a madman in solitude.
Until someone else deems it so, you’re just living life in the manner you see fit. ;)
 
I don't worry about 'digital scrutiny'. The mic and camera in this laptop are normally off (turn them on for the rare Skype to wife in care home)

I refuse to use any kind of social media. I suppose I am 'known to' Facebook because I use Whatsapp to talk to my son in France two or three times a week but I will trade any privacy invasion that might engender because we can chat for up to an hour and I could not afford the bill over regular phone lines.

Out of the house it is now possible to cover more than half your face and I can get away with sunglasses ALL the time because I am protecting my good eye from ARMD so that stuffs Facial Recognition (coz the buggers are still using it betcha betcha even though the high court has deemed it 'unreliable')

Tis an ill wind indeed!

As for "people get digital sound all the time with no choice" Twas ever thus (well for 'king ages) In UK FM was distributed digitally via MW links (about 13 and 1/2 bits I understand?) UHF TV sound was NICAM (and bloody good it was too!) a form of digital encoding in an analogue transmission.

Fork! Even FM stereo is sort of digital since it is 'sampled' at 38kHz and one of THE lowest distortion FM demodulators is the Pulse Counting Detector. Wasn't used much in receivers because it was more complex and expensive to implement I understand.

There is a sort of "Nyquist point" for tape, the bias frequency.

Nah, The World is a lot more digital than you think and always has been, well at least in the lifespan of most of us here!

Dave.
 
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