OK, how about solid state?

TexRoadkill said:
Of couse not all solid state designs are chip based but that was not the context of the original statement or my response.
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The reason why we wanted to make the point is that not everyone knows that. There may be some newbies cruising the boards, and they read that solid state is the same thing as chip based, and they go around with the wrong idea in their head for who knows how long. If wanting to clear up inaccuracies is being pedantic, well, I guess I must be pedantic.
 
OK, back to the damn pre! I second DMP3 as a good cheap clean dual pre. Jblount, you're still a little tube focused, but you'll get over it. Real tube pres are way out of your price range. Hybrid tube/solid state pres do something, but whatever it is, it isn't adding the subtle warmth of a big bucks tube preamp.
The purists who think a hybrid pre automatically sucks are wrong, but you have to learn how to use the tool. I can tell you that a good clean pre is going to always have more uses in a studio than selective distortion. I've got a DBX386, which is a hybrid preamp, and I've actually found a few uses for the tube drive, but not many. I assure you, I'd rather have about 30dB more of good clean gain.
Is the DMP3 a great pre? No. But in your price range, it's almost a no-brainer.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
OK, back to the damn pre! I second DMP3 as a good cheap clean dual pre. Jblount, you're still a little tube focused, but you'll get over it. Real tube pres are way out of your price range. Hybrid tube/solid state pres do something, but whatever it is, it isn't adding the subtle warmth of a big bucks tube preamp.
The purists who think a hybrid pre automatically sucks are wrong, but you have to learn how to use the tool. I can tell you that a good clean pre is going to always have more uses in a studio than selective distortion. I've got a DBX386, which is a hybrid preamp, and I've actually found a few uses for the tube drive, but not many. I assure you, I'd rather have about 30dB more of good clean gain.
Is the DMP3 a great pre? No. But in your price range, it's almost a no-brainer.-Richie
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I second that. The DMP3 is the best for the low $$$.
 
i was always told it was called solid state because there was no need to warm up and nothing burnt out, so all the parts' state was solid. makes sense but i guess incorrect

T
 
Definitions:

silicon transistor:
A bipolar junction transistor using silicon as the semiconducting material

Silicon:
A nonmetallic element used in the semiconductor industry as a substrate for multiple layers of material, built to form electrical circuits. Silicon is grown from a crystal to form a cylinder shaped 'log.' Slicing the logs into sections 1/40 of an inch thick creates bare wafers.

Wafer
A thin disk (or slice) of silicon on which many separate chips can be fabricated and then cut into individual die.



In the semiconductor industry, making a single transistor, or an Integrated Circuit, the process is the same. The word "chip" does NOT mean an integrated circuit (even though people have used the term to mean it forever). The word "chip" refers to the part of the silicon wafer that is broken off to make a transistor, or a whole pentium III die.

A direct analogy is this. Think of Band-Aid. What do you think of? You see in your head a strip that is used for sealing a cut. "Band-Aid" is a COMPANY name for a product they produce. The name has been misused for so long that it is implied to most to be ALL products that look the same. There are MANY types of bandages that don't look like "Band-Aids", but are made from the same materials. The "chip" word is misused and refers to ALL solid-state devices.
 
acorec said:
Definitions:

silicon transistor:
A bipolar junction transistor using silicon as the semiconducting material

Silicon:
A nonmetallic element used in the semiconductor industry as a substrate for multiple layers of material, built to form electrical circuits. Silicon is grown from a crystal to form a cylinder shaped 'log.' Slicing the logs into sections 1/40 of an inch thick creates bare wafers.

Wafer
A thin disk (or slice) of silicon on which many separate chips can be fabricated and then cut into individual die.



In the semiconductor industry, making a single transistor, or an Integrated Circuit, the process is the same. The word "chip" does NOT mean an integrated circuit (even though people have used the term to mean it forever). The word "chip" refers to the part of the silicon wafer that is broken off to make a transistor, or a whole pentium III die.

A direct analogy is this. Think of Band-Aid. What do you think of? You see in your head a strip that is used for sealing a cut. "Band-Aid" is a COMPANY name for a product they produce. The name has been misused for so long that it is implied to most to be ALL products that look the same. There are MANY types of bandages that don't look like "Band-Aids", but are made from the same materials. The "chip" word is misused and refers to ALL solid-state devices.
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It's intersting to me that I have never used the term "microchip" in 25+ years of designing with them. Ditto for my colleagues (even when we were actually designing such devices; then it was either "die/dice", "devices", "wafers", "layouts", etc.). I almost never call them "chips" except when talking to assembly people (then, actually, it's usually either "IC" or "diode" or "transistor", etc.).

"Chip", IME, is a popularized term that, due to use by the public-at-large, has almost no concise meaning. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, to "nail down" its meaning.

It's more interesting to me, however, that even when faced with expertly-sourced information, people would continue to argue anyway...
 
McQ said:
It's intersting to me that I have never used the term "microchip" in 25+ years of designing with them. Ditto for my colleagues (even when we were actually designing such devices; then it was either "die/dice", "devices", "wafers", "layouts", etc.). I almost never call them "chips" except when talking to assembly people (then, actually, it's usually either "IC" or "diode" or "transistor", etc.).

"Chip", IME, is a popularized term that, due to use by the public-at-large, has almost no concise meaning. This makes it difficult, if not impossible, to "nail down" its meaning.

It's more interesting to me, however, that even when faced with expertly-sourced information, people would continue to argue anyway...
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Exactly.
 
You guys would be well advised to listen intently to Geoff_T and McQ. Though their membership status at this site is "newbie" status, they are very BIG fish in the world of audio. Geoff T is Geoff Tanner of Aurora Audio (high end preamp and gear designer and manufacturer). Geoff worked at Neve, in the glory days (when Rupert Neve was there) and was a part of designing some of the classic Neve products than many of you lust over. His Aurora products, from what I understand, are on the level as well. I'm sure he could tell it better than me. McQ is Mark McQuilken, maker and designer of the FMR RNC compressor and RNP preamp.... you know the ones many of you have and talk about like the second coming....

These guys are big players and have a lot of knowledge to contribute. I'm sure they are human and have the capacity to be wrong, but in this arena, their comments should not be taken lightly due to their achievements and knowledge in audio. Please let's not make the mistake of running these guys off. I'm absolutely in awe that we could have the pleasure of sitting at the feet of some of the masters. This is something that would not have been possible a bit more than 10 years ago.

I don't want to sound like I'm all up on their jocks, but I can't express how big it is for use to hear what these guys have to say. So while you may have respectable knowledge in some areas in audio, please realize that when these guys (and a few others around here) speak, it should be given the respect of a master teacher. Just an FYI to remind you that there are masters among us.

Es.
 
Well, that's one of the great features of the internet age, but I do feel like you just removed Batman's mask. Me, I really am Clark Kent. I just don't turn into Superman. I think we all just need to remember that if you want to have a semantic argument based on the relative meaning of "chip" and "solid state", you can always start a new thread, or instead, help the poor tube-focused newbie bastard who's tryng to figure out whether to spend $100 or $200 on a preamp, and whether he should buy the one that says "tube" on it..
That's what always makes people like Harvey real masters. He never talks down to anyone, but always answers questions in terms the questioner can understand, whatever level that is.
The simple answer- DMP3- 2 fairly clean solid state channels.
VTB-1- one pleasant somewhat colored channel with the option of toob drive.
Real good all-tube preamp- beaucoups bucks (and probably worth every penny)
All of these are valid options, given your needs and resources. I choose DMP3 on a budget only because I have a bias toward stereo recording. I don't think I would ever buy a single channel preamp, unless I was buying another one just like it. YMMV-Richie

BTW- McQ- you build one hell of a cheap compressor.- Thank You.
 
Richard Monroe said:
Well, that's one of the great features of the internet age, but I do feel like you just removed Batman's mask.... That's what always makes people like Harvey real masters. He never talks down to anyone, but always answers questions in terms the questioner can understand, whatever level that is.
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My intent was not to remove "Batman's mask." Just to provide a heads up to some guys on the thread the when one of these guys tells you what something is, it's probably what they said... kinda painful to watch guys argue with the guy who probably made one of the pieces that they have in their studio... Chess sorta' hinted at it, but some folks just didn't get it.

Also, I agree that Harvey's genius is a simple answer directly to the question that was asked.

For Mark and Geoff, thanks for your contributions to the audio world. I own equipment from Mark's company and have used stuff that Geoff undoubtedly had a hand in and look forward to learning more about Geoff's new stuff.
 
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cominginsecond said:

....All of the definitions I?ve linked to below support my view of what the word ?chip? means. In addition they were the only definitions of ?chip? I could find at all on the web:.....
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What the hell are you guys talking about? What does all this have to do with recording? Silicon, germanium, discrete, integrated circuits....?

A chip is produced in a semi-liquid state when it comes out of the cow. After is has lain in the sun for awhile it becomes solid state. End of story.
 
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