Good tuner for Intonation?

S

Sky Blue Lou

Well-known member
I want to do new setups; change string gauge, lower the action, etc. on a couple guitars I've picked up in the last few years. Nothing drastic and nothing I've never done before but I've always intonated by ear and I think I could do better with a decent tuner with a digital readout or needle. The cheapie I have now is just red and green lights. Any suggestions on decent quality tuners that would work good for this as well as on the fly tuning after - I'm not going into business here so it doesn't need to be dedicated to set ups.

Thanks.


lou
 
You don't need a fancy tuner any tuner will do save your money for other more important tools. What you need is a good understanding of the basics limitations of temperaments and a how they apply to the guitar. Have you read the links in the first post of the sticky on this board?
 
muttley600 said:
You don't need a fancy tuner any tuner will do save your money for other more important tools. What you need is a good understanding of the basics limitations of temperaments and a how they apply to the guitar. Have you read the links in the first post of the sticky on this board?
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I have - fucking Greek. I will read them again before I fire up but I'm wondering how accurate I can be with a tuner that lights the note and goes green when you're "on". It would seem to me I could do better with a digital frequency indicator or dial gauge, no? I'm not gonna be buying any more tools - other than guitars and amps. If I need pups or pots changed or a new nut or some such I have good local techs for that but I don't want to waste their time and my money on something as simple as going down a string gauge and lowering the bridge.


lou
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
I have - fucking Greek. I will read them again before I fire up but I'm wondering how accurate I can be with a tuner that lights the note and goes green when you're "on". It would seem to me I could do better with a digital frequency indicator or dial gauge, no? I'm not gonna be buying any more tools - other than guitars and amps. If I need pups or pots changed or a new nut or some such I have good local techs for that but I don't want to waste their time and my money on something as simple as going down a string gauge and lowering the bridge.


lou
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OK to start you need to accept that intonation and guitar tuning is always a compromise. You can set the intonation for each individual string to be perfect without any tuner. Those individual string need to be tempered to each other to play "in tune" You can also learn to tune a guitar to play as close to in tune as possible without a tuner. Concentrate on the second link and try and understand what is going on with that. Essentially you are spreading the inaccuracies of the guitar and equal temperament across all six strings so mnost chords sound as close to true as possible.

A tuner is only really needed when you want to fix a reference point for a single note. When you set intonation on an instrument it matters not if the A is 440 hertz or 450 hertz, what matters is that each interval on the instrument is as close to true to it's common neighbours as it can be.
 
Are there "styles" of intonation or compromises better suited for certain types of playing or music? In other words would you intonate a jazz box differently than a rocker's Les Paul or do you approach them all the same?

I will read it I promise and if the answer is in there just tell me and I'll read 'em again tonight.


lou
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
Are there "styles" of intonation or compromises better suited for certain types of playing or music? In other words would you intonate a jazz box differently than a rocker's Les Paul or do you approach them all the same?

I will read it I promise and if the answer is in there just tell me and I'll read 'em again tonight.


lou
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Read because it is essential if you want a good grounding in how and why intonating an instrument is essential and what you are dealing with. The reasons for the need for compromises etc..

As to styles of music? Not really, you setup a guitar depending on the strings, gauge, style of the player and stuff like that. At the end of the day it either plays "in tune" or it doesn't, genre or style is irrelevant..
 
If you want a good tuner, Lou, you can't beat a Peterson. I've got a Strobostomp, and it's by far the best tuner I've ever owned. A bit more expensive than other consumer tuners, but not unreasonable.
And it's fun to look at.
 
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Sky Blue Lou said:
Thanks, Mike. Do you do your own setups?
lou
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As best I can. Am a bit of a hack, but I can usually set them up to my liking. Always a bit of trial and error, particularly if I'm changing string gauges. I would not want to do setups for others, that's for sure.
It's a bit fun, as I get out of my comfort zone, and learn something new by playing around.
 
I have four more-or-less inexpensive tuners that all show "cents" (percents of the indicated pitch)- a Boss TU-12 chromatic, a Rogue CAT 1 chromatic and an ancient Excel (a "guitar" tuner, not a chromatic)- those three are calibrated to two cents, and I have a Seiko ST-727 chromatic that is calibrated down to ONE cent- it's got a very stable LCD display which makes it the easiest to use for setting intonation. But you are right, my clip-on tuner has a big, wonderful, easy-to-read screen that has BIG letters and lights up red when you are off the pitch/green when you are on it, but is does not "do" cents very well. Still, it is my favorite stage tuner- I never need worry about lighting or reading the tuner.

I suppose one can intonate a guitar by ear, but I think most of us either do not have ears attuned well enough to do so, or don't trust our ears enough to know if we are "there;" thus, a tuner is virtually indispensable.

Anyway, it's been my experience that one can set the intonation just fine with a cheap tuner, as long as it's accurate (mine all are, I've checked them against each other and other, better tuners) and is calibrated to cents.
 
YES...a Peterson is the way to go. I have a VSAM, I do all my own setups for a large number of guitars.

What Muttley is saying is all cool and accurate, but if you can't clearly hear the fine, fine intonation nuances of high pitched harmonics (who the heck can? )...that's where the Peterson kicks ass, because it will get you more accurate then you will ever hear it by ear.
Additionally...the VSAM (and other Peterson tuners) have a variety of tunings that can come in handy, plus they include some of their own proprietary temps for guitar and bass and a few other instruments.

I've been using the Peterson VSAM for several years now...and its spoiled me by actually improving my own sense of very fine tuning differences. In some ways, it's a bit of a curse, :D 'cuz now I'll hear even small tuning issues and so I spend more time tuning.
 
Thanks for the input, Miro. I'm not interested in paying more than $100 for a tuner. I'd prefer half that if I can find a decent one with more than just green or red lights. It's not that critical. I can make 'em sound okay - I've done that before.


lou
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
Well how does style of the player come into it?


lou
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It comes into play with things like how hard you hit the strings and how hard your fretting touch is. Also what type of frets you have on there. I fret quite hard so if I have wide or tall frets on there you can easily detect a difference when compared to some one with a light touch. Just get a cheap clip on tuner. You don't need a strobe tuner. Spend that extra cash on decent nut and fret files and a decent flat diamond stone.
 
I've never used one but what about a software tuner? I know I've seen them with 2 or 3 decimal places.
 
Muttley...you keep saying you don't need a strobe...but really, how many people can hear harmonics with 1/10th of a cent accuracy.....?
The higher you go in frequency, the harder it is to notice the small differences between in-tune and almost in-tune.

I would agree that for basic tuning, a decent calibrated LED tuner will get you "home", though never as accurate as a strobe....but for setting intonations, a strobe is just more accurate and it takes the guess work out of it. I'll put up a strobe setup against most people's "by ear" intonation setup any day.
Granted, there may be folks who do nothing but setups day in and day out ;) and have had years of ear training...but not very many. :)
 
Setting intonation is all about getting things "almost in tune. As I keep saying, getting a guitar to play "in tune" is about spreading the inaccuracies over the whole fretboard. You do not need a strobe tuner you need to understand what you are trying to do. Using a strobe tuner for setups is like using an atomic clock to time a boiled egg.

Spend money on decent tools for doing the job not measuring things down to a degree that doesn't natter a jot.
 
Sky Blue Lou said:
I want to do new setups; change string gauge, lower the action, etc. on a couple guitars I've picked up in the last few years. Nothing drastic and nothing I've never done before but I've always intonated by ear and I think I could do better with a decent tuner with a digital readout or needle. The cheapie I have now is just red and green lights. Any suggestions on decent quality tuners that would work good for this as well as on the fly tuning after - I'm not going into business here so it doesn't need to be dedicated to set ups.

Thanks.


lou
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Peterson ..... they have built in 'sweeteners' that can be useful for stretching the tuning and getting it to sound nicer all over the neck.

I have a 490ST but I'm a piano tuner.

Muttley's right in that the accuracy doesn't matter that much but the sweeteners are pretty useful.
 
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