the Journey....thoughts and answers...

RICK FITZPATRICK

RICK FITZPATRICK

New member
Hello everyone. My name is Rick. I am a musician who happens to play guitar and I have something to share with those who care to listen and learn. For those of you who already know this stuff, or call it by other names, or want to poke fun, or wanna talk about brands or distortion, or amps or whatever, please move on to one of the other threads. For those of you who care to stay and remark, welcome to ...

The Journey.....


Exactly what, you may ask is the Journey? Well, to be precise, it is your experience through the maze known as music. As you may well know already, the maze can be pretty bewildering, especially if you have no music education, or are learning guitar on your own, and have been playing for a while now, but do not understand this thing known as music or how it relates to the fretboard. Who does? Well, I don't think anyone understands all of it, me most of all. Thats why this thread exists. Let me explain.
I'll start at the beginning. 1953. Yes folks, I am an old fart. But that is the year I first became "aware" of music. I was 8 years old. I remember hearing a song that somehow tickled the curiosity that became my Journey. I remember asking questions to myself...."how do these sounds fit together"?...."how do they make these sounds?...how do these people who make the sounds know "how" to make them? or what is it that they know that allows them to play together? For years these questions ran through my mind. Sure, there was music in school, but for some reason I never connected to it. But you know how childhood is. There was more to life than music...I mean, after all, I was in Texas. On the coast. And there was turtles, lizards, and rattlesnakes...oil wells...and swimming...and bicylcles...and girls...and swords....and Superman!!...hahahaha. Time flys when you are having fun. But yet, music was all around. And the questions popped up everytime I heard it. I remember making a guitar out of a cigar box with rubber band strings...something for Boy Scouts I think. I never connected with music in school though. I think it was because my Dad was in the Navy and we moved so often. Oh well.
It was 1954 though when something else caught my ear. Something I'd never heard before. The beat. WOW! What is that BEAT??? Wow....rhythm...never was aware of it before.... all my questions in my head was about tones...and these musicians playing together...how? Big bands, orchestras, horns and violins. Even though I knew what a guitar was, and I made the cigar box thing, I don't think I had ever been aware or heard a guitar by itself till one night when we were traveling. Late at night. Across the big state of Texas. In the back of my Dads old 'willys. I was asleep up in that place behind the back seat. Up below the window....slowly I heard it. My dad loved country music. Especially fiddles. Probably because his dad was an old Irish fiddler. But I had no idea what it was. He had a speaker in the back of that old willys. And it was right at my ear. Slowly I heard it...faint...pulsating...what is it? Hmmm...I woke up and listened..it was getting clearer. Probably old AM radio stations fading in from distance...there it is..wow! What is that sound...COOL!! Little did I know I was hearing the Star of country music...I heard dad singing to it...."HEY GOOD LOOKIN...What ya got cookin!!. ..Hows bout cookin somethin up with meeeeee!!""......too cool..what are those sounds...Hmmmm.. I listened all the way to Corpus Christi that night. I was facinated by the sounds...and the beat... Time marches on......
1955...Oakland California...you know..Navy bases. Still listening...still wondering...but now there was something different on the radio...a BIGGER beat...BIGGER guitars...BIGGER bass..whatever those were? I had no idea...but I was going to find out!! Singers too! Cool sounds....like I never heard before....HOLY COW!! New school, new fads, new friends, new MUSIC....lunch time sock hops...GIRLS...DANCING WOW...This was too much..but what is this pulsating beat???? A girl asks me to dance....WHAT THE HELL?? ROCK AND ROLL??WHO?
"Elvis Presley" she says Elvis WHO? Dumbest name I'd ever heard.......oh, dance OK...cool.
That was it. Rock and roll. My journey was getting more interesting. But still no answers..

1957 12 years old. I was a teenager wannabe, and rock and roll was in its infancy. Man did I want to learn this stuff. What a blast. Chuck Berry,..Elvis, big guitars..yea..big electric guitars..damn..had to get one. But how. Dad had an old acoustic..I dug it out. 3 strings and a rope for a strap...didn't matter..I WAS COOL NOW!! I had a guitar..wow. But damn..how do you play the damn thing...it wasn't a matter of having one..I wanted to make those sounds...:(
Dad was overseas. Couldn't get an electric no how...oh well..theres still the radio..

1958 Its really rockin now..the whole scene is blasting wide open..Rock and Roll is here to stay..
and I wanted to be a part of it...... still don't have an electric...man, that old Sears catalog was my bible. I wore out the page with the pictures of Silvertone guitars on it...yea, I want the 3 pickup model...Black with white purfling..and the white pickgaurd....crap..Christmas is coming, maybe then.....still, no answers, lots of questions...wish, hope....wonder....oh well, theres still girls , radio, rock and roll and the dances. Cool....



Well folks, I'm outta time for the moment. What in the blazes, you may ask, does this thread have to do with current music and guitars? LOTS. But you are going to have to bear with the WHOLE journey to see why. Sorry. So if your bored already....better move on, cause what you see is what you get. Each time I post, the purpose will become clearer..but for the moment, ya gotta put up with old fart memories. Maybe you have some too. I bet you ALL have one that you remember as the ENTRANCE to the maze...
Till next time, heres a little teaser....

WHAT KEY has E# in it?

Well, thats about it for now folks. Tune in for the next episode .. same time, same station for..
the Journey...


fitZ...old fart on batteries
 
Hey Rick - friendly advice - if you are going to post a novel, do what novelists do and break into into paragraphs. It's VERY difficult to read that many lines on a screen without a break.
 
"So you thought you could find this "sound" you're looking for outside a men's restroom?"

Apologies to Lenny Bruce.
 
ibanezrocks said:
would you mind explaining these double sharps?
Click to expand...

B## = C#


Some keys require double sharps/flats.

For instance, D# Mixolydian is:

D#, E#, F##, G#, A#, B#, C#

F## is actually a G.
 
Scottgman said:
B## = C#


Some keys require double sharps/flats.

For instance, D# Mixolydian is:

D#, E#, F##, G#, A#, B#, C#

F## is actually a G.
Click to expand...
Why not just call it a G? This stuff makes my head hurt, but then again, what I know about music theory could be explained to a 3 year old... :o
 
Every key will essentially have the letters ABCDEFG. F# is the one where (in order to keep with the same spacing between notes and still hang with the groovy alphabet scheme) you would have to sharp the E.
 
Purge said:
Every key will essentially have the letters ABCDEFG. F# is the one where (in order to keep with the same spacing between notes and still hang with the groovy alphabet scheme) you would have to sharp the E.
Click to expand...
Strange. E# is F....

Oh well... I'll get it all one day. I'll take a class or two at a college.
 
I understand some theory, but I always just called it the actual note instead of a double sharp, even if it meant I used the same letter twice.... :eek:
 
his stuff makes my head hurt, but then again, what I know about music theory could be explained to a 3 year old...
Click to expand...
THAT is exactly why I am starting this thread. Thanks for the replys gents. I certainly don't profess to be an expert at this stuff. But I WILL post what I DO know. Please correct me if you find mistakes. The point here is to bring some basics to people who want it, in a way that I taught myself. If it helps ONE person, then I have accomplished what I set out to do. The price is steep though. Ya gotta get through my storys first. Hahahahaha!! But what the hell, thats what it's about...the jouney of learning music. My journey.
For those of you who DON"T understand WHY there is an E#, or a Cb, or other seemingly idiotic conundrums, let me continue. And for those of you who think my little novel is absurd to post here, so be it...go practice instead of reading it. No one is twisting your arm. I explained that from the get go. On the otherhand, if you happen to learn something new, then I have succeeded.

And now....where was I? oh yes...the journey..

1959-60 Rock and roll. Real rock and roll started to change. Pop radio was becoming more schlock. Oh, there was still some great stuff happening...I remember one in particular..Unbelievable sound..The Big Hurt..first time anyone had produced Flanging. Of course, I had no idea what it was. Sure was cool though. You know, pop radio was different then. All different types of songs. Not like stations now. There was rock and roll, standards, blues, ballads, country, .....different types of sound production too. Philly, New York, Memphis, Texas, LA. But the one thing they had in common..quality songs. at least most. Oh, there were the usual goofy stuff...Yellow Polka dot Bikini stuff, the Purple People Eater... one hit wonders. They still exist. But not like that. BTW, show me a current song with the depth of The Big Hurt. Or artists like Ray Charles. It doesn't exist anymore. I've been through it all, from Rockin 88 to Hendrix to now, and something has died. Thats not to say there isn't tons of great new music, but music that challanges borders..maybe its the radio stations..
At least for me. I think the best has come and gone. I hope I'm wrong. Of course, I'm an old fart on batteries. But don't fool yourself, your times coming.

1960 Listening to the radio late at night. I could get stations far away. I'd listen till I fell asleep. Every night. But this night was special..I was almost asleep when I heard the DJ say...from Seattle, a new band with a hit. Heres "Walk don't Run"...I listen..its the first time I heard the Ventures and I couldn't believe it. A guitar instrumental. The last one I heard was "Guitar Boogie Shuffle"..loved it. I still have the 45. I wasn't into the singers. I was into guitars. Thats what I liked, and thats what I was going to play, come hell or high water.

Maybe the Ventures weren't the first band to use the format that is still the standard band format today. Two guitars, bass and drums. But they were the first to become hit record makers of the day using the format. How many thousands of bands have come and gone with this format. Hmm.. well thats not the point here. What is the point? Learning. Thats what. They were the band that made me actually want to start learning music. I didn't know how, but I actually started to think that I....a schmuck kid living on Whidbey Island, Washington, could might someday play..OH MY GOD.......A GUITAR....Sure, why not. Sounded easy. Crap. Gotta get one first though.

Summer 1961. I lived right outside of a little one horse, and I MEAN one horse town on Whidbey, called Coupeville :rolleyes: Every Sat night during the summer, the local kids went to the Roller Rink in Oak Harbor on a bus that made the trip from Coupeville to Oak Harbor, picking up kids along the way like a school bus. What a blast. One particular Sat, the owner makes an announcement over that old PA(sounded like crap) that the rink was sponsering a dance with a LIVE BAND!! HOLY CRAP. A REAL LIVE ROCK AND ROLL BAND!! HOLY MOLY! Now, most of you these days are spoiled. You haven't got a clue how special that was to kids in little towns back then. Better yet, it was going to be held at the Coupeville Grange Hall....hahahaha. I'll never forget it.
When I got there, I was late. The band was already playing. I'd waited for a month for this night, but in my haste to get ready and in my excitement, I completely forgot my nightly chore. The dreaded firewood. Every night I had to load in enough for the night. This night was no different. Most of you probably don't understand what its like to live where the only heat you have is a fireplace and woodburning stove. Well, thats too bad. It taught me responsibility. No wood. No heat. Even in the summer, on an island in Puget Sound, it can get cold at night. And my DAD hated to be cold . He grew up cold. But thats another story.
I run to the dancehall door......fuck, its LOUD...and its ROCK AND ROLL..Too cool. I make my way inside and its packed with dancers. Its almost steamy inside. I smell alcohol. Holy crap..my best friend is there and hands me a beer. YIKES. I've never had a beer. I gulp it down. Too good. But damn, who is the band? Thats what I want to know. I want to SEE A BAND PLAY!!

I make my way up front...just as I get there...I hear it..the intro to..I DON"T BELIEVE it......Walk don't RUN!!! OH MY GOD..its the Ventures........I'm in heaven. I don't move for three hours. I'm mesmerized. I can't take my eyes off the lead guitar players fingers. And those sounds....geeeeeeeezus..those sounds. And those guitars...what are those..WOW!! And what is that chrome bars sticking out at the ...hmmmm what's that thing called. (the bridge) I haven't got a clue...so much input..... All I know is thats what I want to do. I gotta get a guitar now. Crap. The dance ends. Life goes on..the Ventures get more popular..rock and roll is evolving.. and all I can do is wonder.

Christmas comes and my dad gets some news. He was retireing from the Navy, and before retireing, applied for a job with Aerojet, which was outside Folsom California. He got a job in California!!....WHOOPIE!! Back to California. I'd been in at least 10 different schools in my life and I was tired of changing schools. I was a sophmore in high school now, and wanted to finish in ONE school. I also wanted to go where the action was, and Whidbey certainly wasn't it. We pack and leave. Thank god.

Since most of our relatives lived in Sacremento, thats where we we're going. Folsom was 20 miles outside Sacramento. Hmmmm, the only thing we knew about Folsom, was Folsom Prison. Sounded wierd. Oh well, beats Whidbey. Trouble was, we didn't have a house yet. My folks decide to leave me with my grandparents in Corning California to finish out the school year.

Let me tell you about Corning. Thats where both my parents grew up. Thats were my dad grew up cold too. And hot in the summer. Now its my turn. Its 110 most summer days. Talk about a one horse town, this was it. Horses wern't a joke either. Most of the kids had one. Typical country town, country folks, country homes and country music. Lord. Cowboy hats and boots were the uniform of the day. I'm into black. Rock and roll, and beer. Well, at least there was beer. :D When I could get it, which was most Friday and Saturday nights. I made friends easily, and fell into the cowboy thing pretty easy, even though I was NOT a cowboy. Far from it, but you have to fit in to make friends.

It wasn't long before I was invited to a country dance. One of my friends tells me his brother plays in a band. WOW!! A band? Cool! He's playing at the dance and we can go with him. DOUBLE WOW! I get to go with the BAND!! I'm in dreamland. Ha, who would have guessed in Corning. Saturday comes and we all get in his brothers black primered 51 Chevy with tuck and roll interior, lowered, with Spinner hubcaps. Right out of a 50's rock and roll movie. I feel great.

The dance is being held at the Grange hall in Paskena, which is a few miles from Fluornoy, about 20 miles out in the boondocks of the Northern california valley. Interstate 5 runs through that valley now. Folks, you wouldn't have believed places like this existed, even then. All there was out in those dry hills, was a post office/store with a gas pump from the 30's, and the grange hall.....talk about desolate. This was REAL cowboy land. And out here folks, these cowboys were NO bullshit. I kept my mouth shut, my eyes open, and my ears pointed at the band. Thats all I came for anyway. Well, maybe a beer or two or three. Ha!! On the way, we drink some beer, and....lord, the cowboy habit...chew tobacco. ECK! I tried. Like I said, ya gotta fit in. DON"T SWALLOW though.


The band starts. I was used to country music, and even liked some of it cause Dad listened to it and it grew on me. At least the guitar stuff. Some was actually cool I thought. This dance was no exception. But I wasn't ready for this sound. Two fiddles, standup bass, electric guitar, and something I'd never seen. A steel. The crowd went nuts. Ever see 200 drunk cowboys and loud music...what a sight. The night goes on, and so does the music. Actually, I am amazed. These guys REALLY know how to play. But the one thing that blows my mind is the guy playing something like a 2x6 on legs with strings. I'd never seen a Steel. Damn he was good. I'm mesmerized again. How in the hell do these guys remember where to put their fingers..or what tells them what notes are where? And their fingers move so fast..crap, same old questions.....THATS IT. No matter how, I'm going to get a guitar. I'm now on a mission.

All of a sudden, I am yanked back to reality. I see a BIG cowboy walking straight towards me. Hes 20' tall if not 40 and weighs at least 300. Dreams of guitars evaporate as a hand reachs out and grabs me by the neck. I feel my feet leaving the ground and my blood vessles start to explode in my face. He's
drunk, screaming something at me, and drawing back his other arm with a fist that looks like the hulk.......I prepare to die. No, not here in Paskena..I haven't reached my goal yet!!!!I close my eyes. WHAM!!! I fall to the floor like a sack of potatos. I open one eye and feel no pain...HOLY SHIT, the cowboy is on the floor with a chair broken all over him.....other cowboys are laughing..at me. I wished I was dead. Haven't got a clue what happened or why, but I ran outside. I down 3 beers and smoke 5 cigarettes. Then puke. Welcome to cowboy land.

The dance ends, and when the band packs up, I get to put the guitar in the case. WOW...a REAL electric guitar in my hands. It feels good. Slick neck..but wait. This thing is heavy...solid. Not like an acoustic. What a dumbie. Never had a chance to be around electric guitars. I look at the whatchamacallit(headstock)..it says Fender..Hmmm...sorta looks like the Ventures guitars...it says...Telecaster. Holy moly. I want one. I'd seen them on TV, but never knew anything about them. Poor dumb schmuck. You'd think I'd been stuck in the back hills of Kentucky or something. Here it was the 60's and didn't know shit. Little do you know how fast things can change. My journey was about to get more interesting by the day.


Well folks, here it is late again and time to go to bed.
How bout a trivia question. Anyone know what company made a Stereo Guitar with a Stereo amp in the early 60's? I had one. I'll tell you next time..
Like I said, same time, same station. Later.
fitZ :)
 
Hi Fitz,

your stories so far..........hmmmm, you think they are "unique"?, just to ask you a counter question. Oh do not get me wrong, it is fun to read, I love reading anyone's but as it seems I fear it may become a monologue.

Sorry I know you are on to something "bigger" you want to show [or even better---to let us experience---]something we may not know yet, eyeopeners really.................oh that is good.

Would you like to hear some of our stories? I think that many, many of us here have had similar experiences, but carry on in the meantime, as some of us may feel encouraged to tell some of their stories.....................

Cheers

Eddie :)
 
but as it seems I fear it may become a monologue.
Click to expand...
Eddie, I am not a writer, and if anything, I don't want to bore anyone. But as you assumed, there is a point. In that regard, I will keep posting. As far as a monologue, feel free to inject your own. I'm the last person to hoard a thread. :D And btw, I assume everyone here has the ability to determine whether or not they want to read something, so if it DOES happen to become an empty monologue, so be it. No one can say I didn't try. Many books remain unread on library shelves, regardless of the enlightenment they hold.
Contrary to some peoples interpretation, I don't intend for this to become a bandwidth wasting novel though. Prior to posting the first "episode" ;) I had fears of ridicule, as this forum is oriented towards younger players interests. I still do. But as I tried to figure out exactly how to illustrate what I had to share, I became aware of deeper reasons for sharing it, regardless of what negative reactions it may invoke. The fact is, I know others have their own journeys through the maze. All musicians do. However, if I can open a few doors to those that haven't got a key, then I will have succeeded in shortening their journey to their chosen destinations. Thats all. If you can help in this endeavor, then climb aboard.
As I said though, I do have a direct point. But simply putting the "point" in words, does not illustrate why I chose to open those doors in the first place. And that is what I really want to share. Not the nuts and bolts. It is apparent already, that others may want to open these doors, but do not have a clue to the location of the key. This is my goal.
fitZ :)
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Eddie, I am not a writer, and if anything, I don't want to bore anyone. But as you assumed, there is a point. In that regard, I will keep posting. As far as a monologue, feel free to inject your own. I'm the last person to hoard a thread. :D And btw, I assume everyone here has the ability to determine whether or not they want to read something, so if it DOES happen to become an empty monologue, so be it. No one can say I didn't try. Many books remain unread on library shelves, regardless of the enlightenment they hold.
I had fears of ridicule, as this forum is oriented towards younger players interests. I still do. But as I tried to figure out exactly how to illustrate what I had to share, I became aware of deeper reasons for sharing it, regardless of what negative reactions it may invoke.
As I said though, I do have a direct point. But simply putting the "point" in words, does not illustrate why I chose to open those doors in the first place. And that is what I really want to share. This is my goal.
fitZ :)
Click to expand...

FitZ so motivating people by telling them something they may be familiar with, so they will be more willing to listen and also relate more to the point you are trying to make, right?

As far as your feelings that this forum is oriented toward younger players, well...........I do not know, I think a lot of people here are in their late 20s, thirties and fourties and up, yes there are the younger ones but I feel the majority of them are folks with some kind of experience behind them. Having said that this forum is like the real world: All ages are there, and there is a lot of joking around, which is great, but there are also moments when you can discuss serious matters.

So what is your "journey" idea about? I do not want to be impatient here, but why not telling what your goal is?

Another question: You know about Robert Fripp and his Guitar Craft classes? Well really they are not classes, more a way of life. Anyway is this the kind of thing you mean with your journey? Like understanding yourself, your motives and reasons behind why you want to be a musician, and then looking at what it takes to be a musician and looking at the different roles musicians fulfill?

I perfer to using the word "musicians" rather than "guitar-or bassplayer" as the instrument is only a tool which helps you in your communincation.

So why not tell a bit more about the journey? Do you think younger players go through a different route these days? Isn't it about life, and it is all the same for use, as we have choices------heh let me be careful here,----no all of us have choices, but I hope most of us have, and having them is hard enough as you need to make decisions in what you like doing, how you want to go about it and....................but really these are all things I would like to hear from you and your purposes for posting this thread.

cheers,

Eddie :)
 
ibanezrocks said:
I understand some theory, but I always just called it the actual note instead of a double sharp, even if it meant I used the same letter twice.... :eek:
Click to expand...

there's actually a good reason for this...

when you're writing music, (meaning the black dots on the lines :) ) you don't need to add # or b (flat) to the note as long as it's a note in the key. In the key of F#, if you just refer to the E# as an F, then every time you wrote an F you'd have to clarify that it was an F natural or F#. If you write it as an E (which gets automatically "sharped" in F#) you remove that ambiguity.

hope that help.
 
Rokket said:
Strange. E# is F....

Oh well... I'll get it all one day. I'll take a class or two at a college.
Click to expand...

T
I'm pretty sure the convention is that you can't have two notes in a scale with the same letter designator, so if you have a scale that needs both an F and an F#, then the F is designated E#.
 
Originally Posted by Rokket
Strange. E# is F....

Oh well... I'll get it all one day. I'll take a class or two at a college.
Click to expand...
See, already helped ONE person with ONE question.
Rokket, that is MY point. However, I haven't began to post the nuts and bolts as I know them. Soon though.
Originally Posted by timmerman
FitZ so motivating people by telling them something they may be familiar with, so they will be more willing to listen and also relate more to the point you are trying to make, right?
Click to expand...
How do you know everyone here is familiar with it if you have no idea what my goal is in the first place. Timmerman, I have no interest in boring people with things they already are familiar with. And I am NOT trying to motivate anyone. It is simply sharing knowlege. If you already know it, congratulations, move on.
So what is your "journey" idea about? I do not want to be impatient here, but why not telling what your goal is?
Click to expand...

The journey is my way of illustrating to others that it is NEVER to late to tackle something they may put off for years. The goal is to illustrate the 60 chord system and how it relates to the 12 tone system, and how it relates to the guitar. Simple as that. I am sure you and others here are familiar with it already, although it may be by another name. It is those who do NOT know about it nor understand the implications, that I am trying to reach. The journey is HOW I became aware of it and WHY I chose to learn it. Maybe there are others in the same predicament I found myself in, that would choose to learn it, if indeed they saw how it works as a system.

You know about Robert Fripp and his Guitar Craft classes?
Click to expand...
No. Although I am familiar with his name and reputation. Maybe I could learn something from it. Although I am no longer a working musician, I find the 60 chord system is a lifelong endeavor in itself which serves my needs.However, I am aware there are many resources for the same information I may post here, but so what. If all the other resources were successful, why do I STILL read peoples questions regarding theory and how it relates to guitar, here?
Do you think younger players go through a different route these days?
Click to expand...
Possibly. Everyone is different and may have taken a different musical path than I did. What I DO believe is many players spend years playing by learning songs, and never reach the point of really understanding WHY things work. The evidence is all over this forum. That is why this thread exists.
Look Timmerman, I don't profess to be an expert at anything, let alone theory, musicianship, or guitar playing. But it sounds like you and others here already have a handle on what YOU want to know, but assume everyone else can find what THEY should know in existing books, forums, teachers, schools and the net. Yes they could. However, at the time I found the resource that I used to learn this, I had played for 20 years, and NEVER once ran across it in the context as I found it. To this day, I find very few people who use it the way it was intended. Hence my post. Please understand, I have no interest in wasting other peoples time nor my own. So if this bothers you....DON"T READ IT ;) I do this for ME, no one else. If it happens to help someone along the way......cool.
But just for fun...
here is a question for you and others. Without altering your fingering, illustrate a round of fiths using two notes, decending chromatically.
fitZ :)
 
Rick, I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I am enjoying your posts and am getting something out of it. I have been playing by ear for years and never really understood why things work together and why some things don't. I am probably that one person you will reach, so please go on. I have enough patience to wait for the nuts and bolts.
 
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