'House of the Rising Sun' confused about chords
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c7sus
Disenfranchised Member
Where does it say that D and E aren't part of the Aminor scale???
And WHICH scale??? There's more than one, you know.........
Actually, as a rule of thumb, the "key" of most tunes is the LAST note, because that is what the melody is resolving to.
Keep in mind these are very gross generalizations. And I'm not a theory expert by any means. Trust your ears.
And WHICH scale??? There's more than one, you know.........
Actually, as a rule of thumb, the "key" of most tunes is the LAST note, because that is what the melody is resolving to.
Keep in mind these are very gross generalizations. And I'm not a theory expert by any means. Trust your ears.
AlChuck
Well-known member
I don't think it's correct to say a song is in the "key of A melodic minor." A key is either major or the relative minor (e.g., with no sharps or flats the key is either C or A minor).
But you can say that a song or a melody has a certain flavor, e.g. built using the melodic minor scale, and that harmonizing that scale might well lead to chords that are not standard according to the old common-practice rules that you learn in Theory 101.
The blues are a great example of this. You've got a pentatonic melody with a minor third but you harmonize it with a dominant chord which has a major third.
But you can say that a song or a melody has a certain flavor, e.g. built using the melodic minor scale, and that harmonizing that scale might well lead to chords that are not standard according to the old common-practice rules that you learn in Theory 101.
The blues are a great example of this. You've got a pentatonic melody with a minor third but you harmonize it with a dominant chord which has a major third.
foo
Active member
A minor is in three diatonic keys.
It is the II chord in G, the III chord in F and the VI chord (the relative minor) in C.
To solo over the chords of The House of the Rising Sun, I would treat it like it is in the key of C, but be aware that the D and the E would both require special care and that the resolution to the root (A min) is not to the C chord - therefore the strongest resolution is to the fifth ('E' note), not the 'G' note (the flatted 7).
The use of the major chords instead of the minor chords works because it sounds right.
Many 'folk' songs do not conform to 'the rules' but work because they sound good.
. . . and sounding good is the only thing that counts.
It is the II chord in G, the III chord in F and the VI chord (the relative minor) in C.
To solo over the chords of The House of the Rising Sun, I would treat it like it is in the key of C, but be aware that the D and the E would both require special care and that the resolution to the root (A min) is not to the C chord - therefore the strongest resolution is to the fifth ('E' note), not the 'G' note (the flatted 7).
The use of the major chords instead of the minor chords works because it sounds right.
Many 'folk' songs do not conform to 'the rules' but work because they sound good.
. . . and sounding good is the only thing that counts.
Moonrider
New member
sync said:
I just can't resist jumping in on this one, even though I *know* it's gonna add to the confusion....
The progression you've given is the simplified one used by the Animals. There's an older progression (the original folk version) that goes:
Am C D F
Am G C E7
Personally I prefer the older version, mostly because it "feels" better to me. In theory lingo, I guess you'd say it resolves more gracefully to the melodic minor tonalities
Light
New member
Your mistake is in thinking of melodic and harmonic minor scales as being keys. You are also confusing aeolian modal pieces with minor key pieces. A song in a minor key can use any of the notes in melodic minor, harmonic minor, or the aeolian mode of a major scale. If you don't take at least one note from harmonic minor, you can't get a dominant V chord in a minor key. Without a dominant V chord, you are dealing with a modal piece of music.
So yes, actually, those chords are all in the key of A minor.
Harmonic and melodic minor scales are just ways of explaining certain Bach pieces, and they have little relation to real music. They were made up after the fact to explain music which was written before the "rules" were ever codified. The more you learn about harmony and music theory in general, the more you will understand that there are no rules, just understanding. This is why I always find the people who claim they don't want to learn about theory because it would "limit my songwriting," to be such idiots. They almost invariably make music which conforms to the most basic ideas which you would learn in the first month of harmony training.
Music theory is not about rules, only understanding.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
So yes, actually, those chords are all in the key of A minor.
Harmonic and melodic minor scales are just ways of explaining certain Bach pieces, and they have little relation to real music. They were made up after the fact to explain music which was written before the "rules" were ever codified. The more you learn about harmony and music theory in general, the more you will understand that there are no rules, just understanding. This is why I always find the people who claim they don't want to learn about theory because it would "limit my songwriting," to be such idiots. They almost invariably make music which conforms to the most basic ideas which you would learn in the first month of harmony training.
Music theory is not about rules, only understanding.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Garry Sharp
Lost Cause
And a second to what mixmkr said - excellent point Light. I've found that learning some "theory" (why is it called theory, when actually it's practice) helps trigger new ideas.
Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Well Golly! Theory? I'm a little weak, but I learned it this way-
Am C D Fmaj7
Am C E
Am C D Fmaj7
AM E7 Am
The strum is part of what makes that song required material in guitar picking 101. The AM and C chords have five notes, the D and fmaj7 have four, and the E and E7, six- but... the 4,5, and six note chords are covered by the pick or fingers in exactly the same amount of time. That is fundamental to guitar strums, to be able to do that, and it's harder than it seems to learn it.-Richie
Am C D Fmaj7
Am C E
Am C D Fmaj7
AM E7 Am
The strum is part of what makes that song required material in guitar picking 101. The AM and C chords have five notes, the D and fmaj7 have four, and the E and E7, six- but... the 4,5, and six note chords are covered by the pick or fingers in exactly the same amount of time. That is fundamental to guitar strums, to be able to do that, and it's harder than it seems to learn it.-Richie
crazydoc
Master Baiter
Emperor !!!
New member
Disagree!!!
I disagree with Light in that harmonic and melodic minor scales are just ways of explaining certain Bach pieces, and that they have little relation to music.
If you play a natural minor scale (C - Am) you will discover, that the VII degree doesn’t resolve to the root because there’s a whole tone between them, so what the "theorylogists" did was to sharpened the VII degree of the natural minor to add that resolving feeling to it, ending with what is known as the harmonic minor scale, but then again this scale presented a flaw and that is the whole tone and a semitone separating the VI and VII degree of the new scale, and this time they raised the VI degree, ending with what is known as the melodic minor scale.
One of the few reasons they did this, was to avoid the tritone interval, and to understand this better we’ll have to get deeper in to the intervals theory and that’s not the case here. By understanding this you get a wider spectrum of the minor scale and the music really gets versatile at this point.
So that’s why I disagree with Light, is nothing personal.
I disagree with Light in that harmonic and melodic minor scales are just ways of explaining certain Bach pieces, and that they have little relation to music.
If you play a natural minor scale (C - Am) you will discover, that the VII degree doesn’t resolve to the root because there’s a whole tone between them, so what the "theorylogists" did was to sharpened the VII degree of the natural minor to add that resolving feeling to it, ending with what is known as the harmonic minor scale, but then again this scale presented a flaw and that is the whole tone and a semitone separating the VI and VII degree of the new scale, and this time they raised the VI degree, ending with what is known as the melodic minor scale.
One of the few reasons they did this, was to avoid the tritone interval, and to understand this better we’ll have to get deeper in to the intervals theory and that’s not the case here. By understanding this you get a wider spectrum of the minor scale and the music really gets versatile at this point.
So that’s why I disagree with Light, is nothing personal.