Hipshot tremsetter on a strat

ZoSo58LP

ZoSo58LP

rock guy
i've got one of these in my '89 USA strat, and honestly, i just don't think it works. at all.

they advertise that all the strings stay in tune when you bend, but from my experience, that's bullshit. when i bend a string, the low E still goes out of tune. on top of this, every damn time i use the trem bar, be it a dive or a slight bend down, the damn strings all get SUPER sharp. i'm in half step down, working on some nice van halen stuff, not even bending that hard, and all of a sudden i check my tuning and i'm in standard tuning! holy hell, the thing bend UP almost a half step just by doing ONE SMALL dive! what the hell!?

i have my bridge set flat, it's not floating, so the bar can only dive down. i've played with the adjustments numerous times according to that PDF file that hipshot has, but NOTHING works. any ideas on what the hell to do?
 
Yeah, I'm hearing your noise, which is why I only do the freaky shit on a guitar with a locking trem and locking nut.

I can't offer any advice for you other than seeing a professional and see what they say. But if it makes you feel better, I remember trying to use a trem on a strat and I *never* got it to stay in tune with trem use. It was just a constant battle where the string would stick or slip in places and "babango", she's out of tune again.

Cheers,
FM
 
Assuming you have a floyd rose setup, the problem is going to be in the locking nut of the guitar.
If you have a standard tremolo setup the problem is that guitars without locking nuts will never stay in tune if you beat the shit out of them because the strings aren't locked down on the nut. The reason you would need your strings locked down is because when you loosen the strings by bending the whammy bar down, the strings slack around the tuning peg and the only way the string could go back to perfect tune is if the string re-wrapped itself around the tuning peg in the exact same way it was before it slacked.

Short answer: either it's your locking nut or you're guitar wasn't meant for what you're doing :)
 
Yep. Mr pain knows where it's at.

... and if there is any place to gloat to a relevent aidience, it's here. I have a Ibanez Jem77FP (Via model) that no matter *what* punishment I can dish out onj that poor, poor whammy bar, it doesn't go out of tune. It really is a freak of nature...

Good luck with your quest ZoSo58LP.

FM
 
ZoSo58LP, that '89 Strat has a roller nut, right?

EDIT: The Strat Plus models from this era have a Wilkinson roller nut, not a Fender LSR - see ZoSo's picture link in post #11 below.

My '91 Strat Plus is set up exactly the same way - with a roller nut, Fender vibrato tailpiece, and a Hipshot Tremsetter.

It's a crap setup for anything other than shallow, gentle vibrato.

Mine does exactly the same thing as yours although not quite so badly. I have my bridge set as a full floater, just so I can yank up on the vibrato bar after divebombs to try to get the strings that have gone sharp unbound from the nut.

I've taken off the roller nut and cleaned it up and lubed it with graphite and that hasn't helped much. I'm coming to the conclusion that I either need to retrofit a locking nut, retrofit a whole Floyd Rose setup, or just buy another guitar that's already set up that way if I want to do any major bends.
 
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Kingofpain678 said:
when you loosen the strings by bending the whammy bar down, the strings slack around the tuning peg and the only way the string could go back to perfect tune is if the string re-wrapped itself around the tuning peg in the exact same way it was before it slacked.

:)
Click to expand...
no ..... the string DO NOT loosen around the peg .......... they move over the nut and don't go back to the correct spot.

You are correct though .......... a locking nut is the answer.
 
I installed a Floyd Rose with the locking nut on my 73 Strat and this guitar stays perfectly in tune. I blocked the bridge so it only trems down. I've had this arrangement for 20 years and it works beautifully. The original bridge was terrible for going out of tune anytime I used the wammy as the strings would catch on the nut and tighten up. I tried replacing the nut with several different types, but changed over to the Floyd Rose after buying an Ibanez that had one on it. I was so impressed with the bridge that I opted for the mod on my Strat. I hesitated because I didn't want to damage my Strat and wasn't sure if it would work but I would never go back to the old bridge. Just my two cents worth.
 
domvac said:
I installed a Floyd Rose with the locking nut on my 73 Strat and this guitar stays perfectly in tune. I blocked the bridge so it only trems down. I've had this arrangement for 20 years and it works beautifully. The original bridge was terrible for going out of tune anytime I used the wammy as the strings would catch on the nut and tighten up. I tried replacing the nut with several different types, but changed over to the Floyd Rose after buying an Ibanez that had one on it. I was so impressed with the bridge that I opted for the mod on my Strat. I hesitated because I didn't want to damage my Strat and wasn't sure if it would work but I would never go back to the old bridge. Just my two cents worth.
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Thanks, that's good info.

I've hesitated about doing an irreversible mod to my Strat, but the truth is that these models aren't exactly appreciating in value - in fact, they're not even holding value. (Bought mine in '91 for ~ $950, you can find 'em in great shape for ~ $700.)
 
in terms of tuning stability, i think that the answer is the quality of the components. Ive never been a fan of locking nuts and floyd roses anyway. I have a custom shop fender 60's relic and the tuning stability is perfect. I can give the whammy bar as much abuse as i like and no problems. With the new fender deluxe strats having a new design bridge and locking tuners for stability, one has to wonder what the problem is with a good quality old school design like mine!
 
thanks for the replies guys...i'm honestly thinking about adding a locking nut..

zaphod, yeah i've got the same.. i don't think it's the LSR though; it's the wilkinson...they stopped using those ones because apparently they sucked compared to the LSR roller.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxp7F01G8JoYGhDyJ2hDVsB1eVK6nuWQT4FGP8FJQPBdQEQC5s9Q&t=1

thats what mine looks like. maybe i should just replace it with a locker...hmm....but then since there's no floyd rose bridge, tuning would only happen if i un-allen wrenched the nut....so then for that matter i should put in a whole floyd rose.....but then if thats the case, i just don't really care enough. hahaha i never use the whammy anyway....i was just feeling very van halen-ish the other day..... :\
 
I had to remove the old nut and trim the neck to accomodate the locking nut (that's why I hesitated. Once you start cutting, there's no going back.) Then I had to drill 2 holes in the body for the bridge pivot/adjustment posts and the bridge dropped right into the existing bridge slot and the springs hooked up as normal. The intonation was easily adjustable and the blocking was simple enough. It took a little trial and error for the action setting, as I like my action low and I had to experiment with the bridge. Incidentally, I initially installed the locking nut first and used the guitar with the original bridge. That was o.k. for the problem with the string catching, but if I wanted to fine tune, I had to unlock the nut. Onced tuned, as soon as I tightened the nut down, the B and E strings would go slightly sharp and so I had to install the bridge to finish properly. As I said, I was hesitant and nervous about cutting and drilling holes in my baby.
I'm sure that these days there are simpler ways around this issue. Remember, I did this 20 years ago and they didn't have a lot of the new hardware we have today.
 
ZoSo58LP said:
thanks for the replies guys...i'm honestly thinking about adding a locking nut..

zaphod, yeah i've got the same.. i don't think it's the LSR though; it's the wilkinson...they stopped using those ones because apparently they sucked compared to the LSR roller.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTxp7F01G8JoYGhDyJ2hDVsB1eVK6nuWQT4FGP8FJQPBdQEQC5s9Q&t=1

thats what mine looks like. maybe i should just replace it with a locker...hmm....but then since there's no floyd rose bridge, tuning would only happen if i un-allen wrenched the nut....so then for that matter i should put in a whole floyd rose.....but then if thats the case, i just don't really care enough. hahaha i never use the whammy anyway....i was just feeling very van halen-ish the other day..... :\
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I have the same nut as yours.

Our band has one song that requires some deep divebombing on my part, and it's getting to where I'm thinking about ditching it because my Strat just sounds like crap.

I've had the same thoughts about the whole mess as you - if you put a locking nut on, then you have to unlock the nut to tune, unless you get a whole FR setup...... which ain't cheap..... and if you don't want to have to shim the neck, you have to rout a shallow pocket in the body (I think)....

Bah!
 
look at a kahler hybrid as another option...

you can lock the bridge into a hardtail..

or use it as a floating trem.

mine, stays in perfect tune, no matter what i do to the trem....

i can take mine down to totally slack, or pull up to the point that the strings are going to snap, and it falls right back into perfect tune...
or as close as you can get with a standard fretted guitar.
 
I've just done a little Googling, and from what I gather the problem was pretty bad with the Wilkinson roller nuts like I and ZoSo have. But the Fender LSR nut gets good feedback, and it can be retrofit onto a neck that originally came with the Wilkinson, with little effort.

It's not cheap at ~ $40 USD but if it will solve the problem it's worth every penny.
 
only 40 smackers? hmm. you think this is something easy that we could do on our own, or is nutting something left for the professionals? (ha ha i'm hilarious.)

the wilkinson also sucks ass because it's only set for 10's and below. i tried to use a hybrid 11 set before, and it just didn't fit through the nut. stupid wilkinson. no wonder they ditched it........but it does look kinda cool!
 
ZoSo, from what I gather the LSR nut is not an exact retrofit to the Wilkinson nut, but it comes supplied with some sort of adapter for Wilkinson-equipped Stat Plus models. The screw mount holes are not in the same place so you have to fill the holes for the Wikinson and drill new ones for the LSR. Also you need to shim the nut to the correct height (shims are supplied also, I think). But overall it appears to be pretty straightforward and not difficult.
 
Zaphod B said:
Muttley, if you are reading this thread I'd appreciate any wisdom you can offer.
Click to expand...

What are you asking? This thread seems to have flitted from one thing to another...

Is it possible to get a strat with a vibrato bar to stay in tune without major mods? Is it easy to fit a locking nut and fine tune bridge in a strat? Is one better than another?

I never use locking nuts and rely on setup entirely to keep the thing in tune. If done properly a well setup guitar will stay in tune with your normal strat vibrato.
 
Muttley, the issue is that the Wilkinson roller nuts on our '89 and '91 Strat Plus models are binding and wreaking havoc with tuning when we do deep vibrato dives.

I have removed mine and cleaned and lubed it to little if any effect.

You can't easily retrofit a standard nut on these models, since the fretboard is cut with a wide shelf above the nut to accommodate the roller nut - there is no nut slot.

Do you have any experience with the Fender LSR nut? This nut was used on Strat Plus and comparable models after Fender discontinued use of the Wilkenson roller nut.
 
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