The New Tone Thread

Greg_L said:
Haha, I love the little differences between UK english and US english.

Over here, this is a torch.
2cad71d73841c3c1781a919e6d98701a.jpg


Put that on your grill and bye bye amp. :D

But yeah, use a torch, or flashlight, to shine through the grill and see what's up. I use a little mini pocket LED light to peek through. I think a good starting point is the cap/cone seam, and go from there.
Click to expand...

Lol, I thought of that when I posted it!

Yep, I tried out a Blackstar HT-5 combo way before Jim Marshall died - I think the Jim Marshall thread after his death was where Victory Pete got banned.
 
Okay fellow tonetards, here's some more Weber Mass 200 attenuator shit. This time, the Marshall JMP 2204. This is a 50 watt master volume amp that gets a lot of mojo from loud loud master volume settings. Even with a master volume, it's one of the "crank it loud" kind of Marshalls, so it's a good candidate for attenuation. This amp also works well with lowering the preamp gain as you turn up the master volume. Lots of power-tubey goodness with this amp. I like to get raw and gnarly with this one.



Angus SG - Angus Signature bridge humbuckeroo
Marshall JMP 2204 - 50w master vol
Presence - 4
Bass - 6
Mid - 8
Treb - 4
Master vol - 8
Preamp vol - 4.5
Marshall 1960A 4x12 - Greenback - Senn e609 halfway to edge, on axis, about 2" off grill
No EQ or fiddling in DAW

2204 Baseline - master vol 8 - no attenuation

This one is roughly big place gig volume. Just a little taken off the top.
2204 w/ attenuator at 8

This is still pretty loud in the room, but too low for a live practice. This could be "moderate recording volume" but I like it louder.
2204 w/ attenuator at 5

Now we're really clamping it down.
2204 w/ attenuator at 2

TV/don't piss off anyone in the house volume.
2204 w/ attenuator at .5 - TV vol


2204 Baseline again - master vol 8 - no attenuation
2204 w/ attenuator at 5 normalized to baseline level
2204 w/ attenuator at .5 TV volume normalized to baseline level

See what you think. :thumbs up:
 
Greg
Listening to the normalized clips. You know, even when it's super clamped down to TV volume, I think it still sounds bad ass. I'm not listening super loud right now so I don't think I'm getting the full effect of the low end, but I don't think that in a blind test that I could tell which is which. This amp seems less affected by the attenuator than the amps in your last set of clips. I still like the sound of those pickups in that Angus SG. They've got a midrange bite that just crushes. And you've got a heavy touch like I do, it's got me really considering those pickups for my LP Classic. That 498R (or 496R or whatever) and 500T combo is just too hot for me.
 
Tadpui said:
Greg
Listening to the normalized clips. You know, even when it's super clamped down to TV volume, I think it still sounds bad ass. I'm not listening super loud right now so I don't think I'm getting the full effect of the low end, but I don't think that in a blind test that I could tell which is which. This amp seems less affected by the attenuator than the amps in your last set of clips. I still like the sound of those pickups in that Angus SG. They've got a midrange bite that just crushes. And you've got a heavy touch like I do, it's got me really considering those pickups for my LP Classic. That 498R (or 496R or whatever) and 500T combo is just too hot for me.
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Cool, thanks.

The Angus pickup is pretty hot, but nowhere near 500T hot. It does have a powerful midrange and it drives any amp I've ever used really well. It doesn't want to clean up easily though. I have to roll it waayyy back. It might just be my controls though. I'm thinking it might actually have the wrong kind of vol pot because it does pretty much nothing until you roll it down to around 5. It doesn't act like an audio taper pot, which is what it should be. I need to check it out. It's not that big a deal to me, but I do like to roll off a little every now and then.

Here's Gibson's pickup chart if you've never seen it.
782216GibsonChart.jpg
 
By the way, a buddy of mine has an LP Classic which had a 500T in it. That pickup was stupid hot. Excessively hot. So so hot. I found that pickup, for me, to be damn near useless. It was mushy, super hot, not very defined. No clarity. It was just BWAAAAARRRR distortion no matter how you set the amp. Lol. He recently replaced it with a 57 Classic and that guitar sings sweet tones now.
 
Greg_L said:
By the way, a buddy of mine has an LP Classic which had a 500T in it. That pickup was stupid hot. Excessively hot. So so hot. I found that pickup, for me, to be damn near useless. It was mushy, super hot, not very defined. No clarity. It was just BWAAAAARRRR distortion no matter how you set the amp. Lol. He recently replaced it with a 57 Classic and that guitar sings sweet tones now.
Click to expand...

You know, I've had that LP Classic so long now, I've learned to live with those hot-ass humbuckers. They do clean up remarkably well when I roll them back, but the high end gets sucked right out of them while the bass doesn't taper off nearly as quickly. So they get dark and muddy below about 6. Its a full-blast shitkicker of a set of pickups though. Not Gibson's finest moment, and I constantly go back and forth on replacing them. Sometimes I pine for that classic LP sound, and sometimes I enjoy having sensitive loud-assed pickups. It's a toss-up.

Funny how my Am Deluxe Telecaster's bridge pickup sounds nothing like a Tele, but actually does an OK job of sounding like a low-output humbucking bridge pickup. And my latest purchase, an absolutely incredible '65 Jazzmaster just showed up on my doorstep today, and so far it sounds more like a Telecaster than anything my Tele can actually do. Those Jazzmaster pickups are amazing...somewhere between a single coil and a P90, I've been playing it the last couple of hours and I'm astonished. Tons of midrange bite to them when you dig in hard, but still kinda chimey when you lay off.
 
The mormalized clips of the attenuator at 5 and at .5 sounded pretty close to identical.

The unattenuated with master at 8 sounded different and better but there wasn't much difference between the other two.

Interesting.
 
JDOD said:
Evenign dudes,

Haven't had chance to really record with the new amp yet, but got 10 mins to sort my mic placement out this afternoon and quickly did this:
https://soundcloud.com/brother-number-one/tone-test-1
While mrs was off checking the surf. Amp isn't up loud unfortunately but it sounds quite raw. I think I need to push the preamp vol up a bit and knock the gain right down.

Cheers,

JD
Click to expand...

The tone is pretty nice, although I think at that volume the room reflections are creeping in. Something sounds a little boxy, not sure it's the amp itself. Find a good time when you're home alone and the neighbors are gone, then crank that puppy up a bit and see how it records.
 
Greg, I could hear Iggy screaming along to all 3.
The attenuated & normalized pair were REALLY close.
FULL BORE is best but I'd be more than in heaven with either of the other two.
 
Greg:

Thanks for the pickup chart - How do I know which "BurstBucker" I have. Maybe 13 years ago a friend who then worked at Gibson custom shop got me a set of burstbuckers which I put in my Epiphone Sheraton. They are way hot pickups, especially compared to the Sheraton pickups and they actually work really well in this guitar. I am replacing the input jack and have fished the controls through the f-hole to get to the jack and was looking at the pickups. I don't recall any markings on them but will look tonight. Just wondering how I can figure out which ones I have?

I am new and haven't posted much but intend to. Maybe you could help me figure it out?

Thanks
 
Man I really don't know other than getting some spec charts and measuring them yourself. I don't think they have any identifying markers, but I'm not sure. I do know that Burstbuckers are not very hot. They all range from about 7.5k to 9k ohms (I, II, III, and BB Pro), so are you sure that's what you have?

---------- Update ----------

P.S. - Just found this online, though I'm not sure of it's accuracy. Seems like it's probably about right. Typically the higher the resistance value, the hotter the pickup will be. The Ceramic magnet pickups are super hot.

Gibson/Epiphone Pickups DC Resistance Values

Gibson Burstbucker Pro (sim: BB1,Alnico5, potted) 7.4 KO
Gibson Burstbucker Pro (sim: BB2, Alnico5, potted) 8.0 KO
Gibson Burstbucker 1 (Alnico2) 7.5 KO
Gibson Burstbucker 2 (Alnico2) 8.0 - 8.4 KO
Gibson Burstbucker 3 (Alnico2) 8.2 - 8.8 KO
Gibson '57 Classic (Alnico5) 7.44 - 8.5 KO
Gibson '57 ClassicPlus (Alnico5) 9.0 - 13.8KO(the 9.0 appears to be a screw-up or faulty PU)
Gibson Dirty Fingers (2xCeramic) 16.0 -16.6 KO
Gibson Mini-humbucker (Alnico2) 6.0 - 6.4 KO
Gibson 490R (Alnico2) 7.2 - 7.83 KO
Gibson 490T (Alnico2) 7.9 - 8.53 KO
Gibson 498T (Alnico5) 12.32-13.46 KO
Gibson 496R (Ceramic) 8.3 - 8.63 KO
Gibson 500T (Ceramic) 14 – 15 KO
Gibson Angus Young (Alnico5) 13.5 KO
Gibson Tommy Iommi (Alnico2+Ceramic) 16.5 KO
Gibson Joe Perry(BB2&3?) (Alnico5) 8.4(neck)-8.8 KO(bridge)
Gibson Jimmy Page (Alnico5) 7-8 KO(not found yet, but I reckon within these values)
Gibson P-90R (Alnico5) 7.7 - 8.5 KO
Gibson P-90T (Alnico5) 7.8 - 9.35 KO
Gibson P-100R (Alnico5) 6.1 KO
Gibson P-100T (Alnico5) 9.4 - 16.0 KO
Gibson P-94R (Alnico5) 8.1 KO
Gibson P-94T (Alnico5) 9.1 KO
Gibson HB-R (Alnico5) 7.06 - 9.13 KO
Gibson HB-L (Alnico5) 13.39 - 15.3 KO
 
Yeh, sure that's what dude told me they were. They are certainly more bright and powerful than the stock pickups in the Sheraton. I will try to get a meter on them this evening and see where they fall. I think I'll need to de-solder one lead so I don't get false resistance from the vol. pot. It's not really that important anyway, I was just curious. If I get to looking at them and looks like its easy to ohm them out, I'll do it just for shits & grins. If it's a whole lotta work I'll probably not mess with it. It's going to be enough to just try to get the electronics back down the f-hole and have the pots, switch and jack line up.

Anyway, thanks for the resistance chart. If you're interested I'll let you know what I find out...if I take the time to de-solder, etc.

Thanks again.
 
Cool clips Greg, I personally don't hear much difference between any of the attenuated clips myself, the non-attenuated sounds a little different, but honestly, in a mix, I don't think anybody would notice myself...

My pick out of all these would be the baseline/non-attenuated clip, but really, they all sound about the same....Pretty interesting dude, & while I'd said I don't think I need an attenuator, these clips open that up again for me. I'm betting the DSL100 would benefit because the power tubes would come into play, instead of using it's master volume like I've been doing....maybe...:laughings:.

I haven't even had any of my amps turned on in about a week now, I've been busy with other stuff here at the house, but maybe I can post something after while...

All those clips sound good dude...
 
I would think the 'buckers would have a model number on their bottom.

And dealing with controls and wiring is easier by taking out the bridge bucker 'cause you have a larger hole to work thru.
 
minerman said:
Cool clips Greg, I personally don't hear much difference between any of the attenuated clips myself, the non-attenuated sounds a little different, but honestly, in a mix, I don't think anybody would notice myself...

My pick out of all these would be the baseline/non-attenuated clip, but really, they all sound about the same....Pretty interesting dude, & while I'd said I don't think I need an attenuator, these clips open that up again for me. I'm betting the DSL100 would benefit because the power tubes would come into play, instead of using it's master volume like I've been doing....maybe...:laughings:.

I haven't even had any of my amps turned on in about a week now, I've been busy with other stuff here at the house, but maybe I can post something after while...

All those clips sound good dude...
Click to expand...

Thanks. Remember though....if your DSL is anything like my JVM, which it probably is more so than being like this this 2204, then using the master volume on your DSL isn't that big a deal. Turning down my JVM via master volume sounded better to me than leaving it cranked and using the attenuator. If your DSL is mostly preamp and a tight power section like my JVM then an attenuator may just be a waste of money for you.
 
einstein magoo said:
Yeh, sure that's what dude told me they were. They are certainly more bright and powerful than the stock pickups in the Sheraton. I will try to get a meter on them this evening and see where they fall. I think I'll need to de-solder one lead so I don't get false resistance from the vol. pot. It's not really that important anyway, I was just curious. If I get to looking at them and looks like its easy to ohm them out, I'll do it just for shits & grins. If it's a whole lotta work I'll probably not mess with it. It's going to be enough to just try to get the electronics back down the f-hole and have the pots, switch and jack line up.

Anyway, thanks for the resistance chart. If you're interested I'll let you know what I find out...if I take the time to de-solder, etc.

Thanks again.
Click to expand...

Yeah like Lt Boob said, there may be a model or serial number on those pickups somewhere. That could identify them. Looking at Google pics of Burstbuckers, it looks like they will have the "Patent Applied For" sticker and another sticker saying #1, #2, Rhythm Pro, etc. It looks like it needs to say "BB" though. If it's just a number, that may be for the magnet (Alnico 1, Alnico 2, etc). Yank them fuckers out and see what you have. :D

Like this...
gibson-burstbucker-2-nickel-cover-696775.jpg
 
yep, they're already out. As Lt says, the hole is a little easier to fish through on the bridge p/u area, but still the other controls have to come up through the f-hole. I am at work now but I'll dig in when I get home tonight. These look alot like my pups, but thats just from memory. Pretty sure there is a sticker on there but...I'll just have to check later. I'll try to take a pic with wifey's phone...I'm still on a Flintsone phone...no texting, no wifi, no BS.

Thanks Greg / Lt
 
OK, this is the last time I'll take up space here when we're supposed to be checking tones on this thread. Just got home and checked. RTFM right? There are labels on the pickups, I have a BB #1 at the neck and #2 at the bridge. This will be my first attempt to attach a photo, hope it works.

Thanks again Greg and Lt. I hope to finally get around to putting this thing back together and strumming it! By the way, the pots, switch and jack are all kind of cheap looking crap on this thing.

Photo attached?? WOW THIS IS BIG!! I'll try to get better at this!
IMG_1014.JPG
 
Cool, well there ya go. Measure them while you have them out just to see how they read. Those pickups are not supposed to be "hot", but I guess they could be hotter than whatever was in your old Epi beforehand.
 
I have n EPI Sheraton II and the hardware is so so at best. The selector switch has been touchy since day 1. The "gold" plated hardware really is nickle with some gold having been brought into the same room for a moment - pitting on the PUs started on day 2. Sound wise it's quite good and the PUs are hotter than anything else I have, but everything else I have is single coil, so that means nought really. Tone clips soon Mr Magoo?
 
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