The New Tone Thread

Lt. Bob said:
well , short answer is yes.
but ..... you can not get the power section into power tube distortion without the power amp putting out it's rated wattage or thereabouts.
So on my Mesa Mark V, for example, if I have it set to 90 watts it'll never get to power tube distortion regardless of where I set the Volumes without being super loud. But I can set it to 10 watts and without changing the Volume , I can get it to power tube distortion when I crank the master without getting so loud because wide open it only puts out 10 watts.
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That makes sense. And also reaffrims my penchant for simpler set ups. HaHa. IS it loud? yes. can i control the fuzz? Yes. I'll take it.
 
ShanPeyton said:
That makes sense. And also reaffrims my penchant for simpler set ups. HaHa. IS it loud? yes. can i control the fuzz? Yes. I'll take it.
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Yep ...... personally I think there are LOTS of ways to get great sounds.
Cranking a power amp is only one of them.
But ..... if THE sound you want is power amp distortion ..... there's really only one way and that's to crank the power amp. In which case you need a low-output power amp or an attenuator or no neighbors.
And all you have to do is listen to teh gergs' sounds to hear how glorious that sounds ..... his tones are often simply amazing.

But personally I don't work as hard as any of ya'll do trying to attain a specific sound.
I tend to take whatever sound I have and work with that ...... but that's just 'cause I'm old and don't care anymore! :D
 
Lt. Bob said:
So it's a combination of both that gets to high enough levels to drive the power tubes.
The amounts can vary depending on amp design ..... some power amps hit full output with smaller input signals than others and vice-versa.
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This ^^^^^ Boob nailed it.

On amps with both preamp gain/vol and master vol controls, you need to juggle the two for the sound you want. I think the louder you go with the master vol, the less preamp gain you need, and the sound gets better. But by that point you're blasting pretty loud with any amp that's over like 10 watts.

Some amps will go into power section meltdown easier than others. You need to just try it and see. You're not gonna hurt anything but maybe your ears.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Not totally right, the total amount of signal going to the power section is what drives the power tubes. If the master is wide open and the Volume down low you still won't drive the power tubes.
By the same token, if the Volume is wide open but the Master down low, you also won't drive the power tubes very hard.

So it's a combination of both that gets to high enough levels to drive the power tubes.
The amounts can vary depending on amp design ..... some power amps hit full output with smaller input signals than others and vice-versa.
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Sure, it's a combination of both for final output....and that appeared to be clear to ShanPeyton ...but he was concerned about using the Master, and asking what it did.
With a Volume/Master amp...the volume knob drives the preamp section and then it goes to the Master which drives the power tubes.

I guess it's a half-full/half-empty kind of thing depending how we look at it. :)
 
Ok, a couple more clips I did today, these are a couple tones I'm using in a song, one is completely dry, & the other has lots of fx on it....

LP > Ceriatone > G12-65 > e609 > daw

Resonance: 0
Presence: 7
Bass: 3
Mid: 6
Treble: 6
Master: 7
Gain 2: 3-4
Gain 1: 8
Era: modern
Bright 2: L
Bright 1: C
Focus: off

Dry Chupacabra



Resonance: 2
Presence: 7
Bass: 2-3
Mid: 5
Treble: 5
Master: 5
Gain 2: 2-3
Gain 1: 7-8
Era: 80's
Bright 2: L
Bright 1: C
Focus: off

Fx Chupacabra

These 2 clips are pretty similar, not much difference in 'em other than the fx & I used a different mode for each one....


I actually tried the ISO cab a couple times the last day or two, & for the life of me, I can't get a tone I'm happy with using that thing...Tried every guitar/amp/speaker/mic I have, all kinds of crazy mic placements (along with the usual) & still no dice....Threw the 609 on the 4x12, & pretty much instant tone that I'm happy with...

Guess I'm finally just gonna have to trade or sell that thing off because I can honestly get better tones using an ampsim...Noise isn't an issue here (until after 9 pm), but I just thought I'd give that thing another shot, but apparently, it's just not gonna work for me....
 
minerman said:
Guess I'm finally just gonna have to trade or sell that thing off because I can honestly get better tones using an ampsim...Noise isn't an issue here (until after 9 pm), but I just thought I'd give that thing another shot, but apparently, it's just not gonna work for me....
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You talking about selling your Chupacabra...???
So in one sentence....what is it that you really don't like about it, and that you feel amp sims can do better...?

Or are you talking about the ISO cab...?
 
miroslav said:
You talking about selling your Chupacabra...???
So in one sentence....what is it that you really don't like about it, and that you feel amp sims can do better...?

Or are you talking about the ISO cab...?
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The ISO cab dude, I wouldn't even think of selling the Ceriatone...The Randall ISO cab sucks man, I had a home-made ISO, & it was pretty decent, but it was big, heavy, & looked like shit...The Randall is smaller, easy to move, & looks good, but I can't get a decent od/gainy tone out of that thing to save my ass...

It's the low/low-mids that suck, the sound/air just has nowhere to go...It almost sounds like a phase issue, but I only use one mic...

You wanna buy a Randall ISO cab Miro???:)
 
miroslav said:
I have no need for ISO cabs. :)
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I don't since I moved a few months ago, I can get pretty much as loud as I wanna up until about 9 pm...My neighbors aren't real close, but they have complained a couple times since I moved here, but I will admit I had all 4 of the EL34's in the DSL100 cookin' pretty good when they were bitching about it.:laughings:...I know better than to try that shit after 9 pm though, that'd get the po-po here in a hurry...:D.

Back to the ISO cab, I could still use it to play through my amps & track di's, but I could do that using ampsims too...It just sucks that I spent like $400 on that thing, & it sucks balls recorded....The one I built had about $150-200 in it (including the Roxul which I had enough left over to make about 5-6 2'x4' panels), & it sounded a lot better IMO...

Live & learn I guess...
 
Lt. Bob said:
Here's a clip from that gig I did a few weeks back with Tommy Talton and friends.

First .... the recording is a Teac DR-05 set on a balcony railing above the stage .... no mixing possible .... this is just the two built-in mics.

I was mostly there to play bass and once I got on stage to play my one sax song with Tommy he never let me back down so everything after that was totally off the cuff.
This is a song I'd heard before but I've never played it .... so this is me winging it ..... in fact about 1:36 in, you can hear me stop for a second 'cause I think I'm thru ..... then they were going, "No-o-o-o-o ... keep playing" .... :D
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Great tune. "On Your Way Down". Done like Little Feat on Dixie Chicken and written by Allen Toussaint. I'm just getting ready to add that into my set list, too. Very nice soloing. I'd love to hear the whole gig if the rest of it is anything like that.

Those little recorders do an amazing job once you learn where to place them in the room for the best results. Been using a Zoom H4n for about 6 years and got some real nice recordings.
 
Lt. Bob said:
Here's a clip from that gig I did a few weeks back with Tommy Talton and friends.

First .... the recording is a Teac DR-05 set on a balcony railing above the stage .... no mixing possible .... this is just the two built-in mics.

I was mostly there to play bass and once I got on stage to play my one sax song with Tommy he never let me back down so everything after that was totally off the cuff.
This is a song I'd heard before but I've never played it .... so this is me winging it ..... in fact about 1:36 in, you can hear me stop for a second 'cause I think I'm thru ..... then they were going, "No-o-o-o-o ... keep playing" .... :D
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Damn Bob! I just went and put on a bra, then took it off and threw it at my computer speakers. That's some fine sax playing!
 
Nice blowing Lt Bob. There've been a couple of good blues based bands downunder that have used sax well.
That was really enjoyable - it's drinking music though - I'd want a rum or a burbon to go with it.
This is a fav from a Melbourne band called Jo Jo Zep & The Falcons - Live The Cthulhu. It starts with Joe Camalerie on sax - then he twins with Wilbur Wilde. It turns into a guitar workout 1/2 way through but the tone is nice'n'smokey before that.
Please post some more of your sax honking 'cause I REALLY enjoyed it.

 
thanks guys ...... that was a fun night ..... the next day it was back to playing margaritaville for the tourists, :D

I appreciate the kind words and I'm planning on going thru all of that night next week 'cause some of those guys want copies so if there's anything worth hearing I'll post it or send it to ya'.

I really like the Falcons cut ...... I was unaware of them till now ...... I'll have to look for them.
 
I look forward to it Lt. Bob.
Oh, beware: Jo Jo Zep & the Falcons morphed into a pop band eventually but their earlier stuff was cool.
Albums/EPs after 77, (unless compilations) are the pop reggae sort though Screaming targets had a bonus 12" of live material that features the song in the vid. The bonus disc is far better than the main disc.
 
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Lemme make one more post about this damn Weber Mass 200 attenuator....

It's awesome. It really is. It has far exceeded my expectations. I've used it extensively now with different amps and cabs with no problems. Used it live with the 100w Plexi at a big venue in Dallas last friday night - no problems. It sounded fucking awesome. That amp definitely sounds better to me attenuated than it does by using the PPIMV for volume control. Even through those goofy 4 ohm 8x10 cabs. It doesn't matter.

So if you're in the market for a versatile, beefy attenuator, give the Weber stuff some consideration.
 
Lt. Bob said:
their speakers are nice too. Not to give miner a reason to buy a bunch more speakers! :D
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Lol....I think the next thing I'm gonna get is an attenuator, I think I'd benefit from that more than any speakers right now...I'd like to be able to get that "bonk" from the Ceriatone without jarring the windows out of the house, plus, I'd like to see what the DSL does brought down to a half-way reasonable volume level...Sure, it's got a master vol (DSL), but it's pretty weak/thin sounding until you get it up to about 4, & by then, it's loud as fuck...Same thing with the Ceriatone, but it doesn't start sounding gnarly until you get to at least 6, & that's pretty loud too...

If I could get rid of the T-75's and/or the 1x12's I have, I'd probably have enough to buy one of the Weber's...Nobody's really interested in 'em though...
 
Okay here's some quick clips. This is a comparison between my Plexi reissues - 50w (1987) and the 100w (1959). Not attenuated. This is just as they are in all of their wide open super loud glory.

Same guitar, amp settings, mic, mic position, and speaker.

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge pickup
Marshall 1959SLP and 1987x
Presence - 8
Bass - 5
Mid - 6
Treb - 4
Ch vol 1 - 7
Ch vol 2 - 0
High input 1 only
Marshall 1960A - G12-65 - Audix i5 - on axis, on grill, just outside dustcap
No EQ in DAW.

1959SLP 100w
1987x 50w
1959 left + 1987 right
 
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