The Fake Drums Tone Thread

andrushkiwt said:
I checked out some e-drums at Guitar Center this last weekend. I was considering buying a set to trigger responses in Superior Drummer, rather than writing MIDI notes manually. Still not sold on it, though I do see the value in that human feel.
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That's what I've been doing for the last couple of years. To me, it's the best of both worlds. You get the natural accents and feel that a human being produces when playing a trap kit, and you get the edit-ability and flexibility of MIDI and samples. Heck, even a velocity-sensitive MIDI controller keyboard or drum pad is better than clicking away at a piano roll grid for hours on end. I don't miss that shit even one little bit. Putting up with my barely mediocre drumming on an e-kit is still better than spending an evening staring at a grid, trying to second-guess how a drum fill should be assembled from scratch.
 
Tadpui said:
Putting up with my barely mediocre drumming on an e-kit is still better than spending an evening staring at a grid, trying to second-guess how a drum fill should be assembled from scratch.
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lol, yeah. to be honest, i sometimes start with a preset "groove" and then edit it meticulously. I switch tom hits for snare hits, hats for cymbals, throw in a roll on the last bar, etc... Same with the grooves for verses and choruses. i find the best match first, then edit it to what i want. so, it's a little less time, but i have had to write something from scratch when i can't find what i'm looking for.
 
Tadpui said:
Putting up with my barely mediocre drumming on an e-kit is still better than spending an evening staring at a grid, trying to second-guess how a drum fill should be assembled from scratch.
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LOL, you should try doing it straight into the DAW instead of through a separate drum program!
 
My kids are big Imagine Dragons fans. We took them to see their show on New Year's Eve. They are a very drum-centric band, with a big, simple, acoustic drum type sound. I'm not usually a pop fan, but I liked it. I think that triggering rather than tinkering is more likely to create that feel.
 
andrushkiwt said:
hey, thank you! that's a good way to look at it. i'm slightly limited by either what the MIDI can and can't do, or by my inability to get it to do what i want it to do...so i see what you're saying. a real kit requires so much time and experience to get sounding as good as my programmed kit does, and i certainly don't have the time or space for that. So, I thought buying an e-kit was the best option. I'll certainly check out that Roland.

I'm guessing all i need is a USB out (or MIDI out, actually. which i'm sure they all have). but also i would want more toms and cymbals than what i see an the store. i was afraid of getting in the $1000 price range for what would be worth it to me.
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You can of course record in two passes to get more cymbals and such.... Also, it's possible to record the kit's sounds AND a midi track for later tinkering....

I recommend spending a few hours on a friend's real drumset and learning a few basic beats before splurging, so you are buying knowledgeably...
 
JDOD said:
LOL, you should try doing it straight into the DAW instead of through a separate drum program!
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Fruity Loops, before it becameFL Studio, was pretty much the same thing. It was just a step sequencer. I had a folder of hundreds of individual drum hits at various velocities, and I'd plug them into FL one at a time. It was about the least amount of fun I ever had making music. And it never resulted in anything resembling a natural feel.

That was when I ended up buying a MIDI controller keyboard that had velocity sensitive keys. It came with a bunch of various virtual instruments, one of which was a drum kit. It was a huge leap forward in programming drums, but still had plenty of drawbacks (I'm not a keyboardist either, so I always had trouble taking advantage of the velocity range of the keys). After a few years of that, I ended up getting an entry-level e-kit and I'm very happy with the setup. I think this is about as good as it gets for a small studio that couldn't possibly accommodate an actual acoustic drum kit and all of the attendant microphone stands.
 
Very Cool thread i can get into. I will have to sit and read from start to finish but just wanted to in and subscribed while it is fresh in my head.

And this:
Tadpui said:
Fruity Loops, before it becameFL Studio, was pretty much the same thing. It was just a step sequencer. I had a folder of hundreds of individual drum hits at various velocities, and I'd plug them into FL one at a time. It was about the least amount of fun I ever had making music. And it never resulted in anything resembling a natural feel.
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I know this agonizing pain ALL TO WELL. I mean i kind of had fun. Sort of. But it got really agonizing and it just got frustrated. It was fun though. I eventually stopped using it for making punk and rock and stuff and tried making electronic music. that fad lasted all of 10 months. I should dig out my old hard drives and see if i still have those laughable sounds.

Solidarity Tadpui. the Fruity Loops Programming pains are real.
 
ShanPeyton said:
Very Cool thread i can get into. I will have to sit and read from start to finish but just wanted to in and subscribed while it is fresh in my head.

And this:


I know this agonizing pain ALL TO WELL. I mean i kind of had fun. Sort of. But it got really agonizing and it just got frustrated. It was fun though. I eventually stopped using it for making punk and rock and stuff and tried making electronic music. that fad lasted all of 10 months. I should dig out my old hard drives and see if i still have those laughable sounds.

Solidarity Tadpui. the Fruity Loops Programming pains are real.
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Hahaha, cheers! I've been fiddling with the Arturia V collection lately (got it half off around christmas time). I've made some horrible sounds, and some horrible electro stuff in the last couple of months :)
 
Editing drums by mouse is the biggest pain in the ass, isn't it? It's the chore at the end of any project, a few hours of hair pulling and second-guessing. It's what makes me tired of a song once I've finished it.

Maybe an electronic kit is the way to go.
 
I would recommend anyone, that has the option to, to get an E Kit. Just learning to play drums alone is great fun and opens up your options with recording digital drums. You get the added bonus of that "human" feel first and foremost but you also get get a better understanding of how it all fits to the grid, regarding fills, etc. Much better than clicking blindly in boxes trying to make something work.

I have a middle of the road E Kit with a Roland TD6V with a mesh snare and it works really well for my liking. I got it 2nd hand quite cheap. Taking a bit of time experimenting with the set of of the sensitivity of the pads/cymbals etc pays off in the end. Also, the way you play dictates the desired results. If you hit them hard, you'll max out the velocity on the hits, etc and everything sounds the same. I find you have to play with a lighter touch than you would a real kit to get the best results.

If you just want something to help with programming fills and bits here and there, you'd do just as well with a much cheaper, all in one, drum pad thing.

:thumbs up:
 
andrushkiwt said:
ok, this was cool to hear these different velocities solo and in context of the tune. Gives me a better idea of how that sounds for the song. I've always used 75% as my bottom velocity, and i think moving that down further would help the dynamics of my songs (well, obviously, but in solo they sound really really quiet). The verses you posted are what, 30% in some cases? (FYI, my midi maxes out at 100%, unlike 127% i see a lot of ppl declare).
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The velocity of those hits are between 40 and 60%. As I explained above about adapting a lighter touch style of playing gets the most out of the E Kit with the software. I find with that the harder the hit, the more similar the samples sound. A lighter playing style give a much more dynamic range with what have.

Glad it helps though. I'll post some more later. :thumbs up:
 
Yeah, I've played drums since high school, so getting an e-kit for the house was a no-brainer. The hardest part was relearning to play on the non-responsive heads that come on the e-kit. It's horrid. Someday, if I ever get out from under "affordable health care", I'll get a mesh set for the kit...Next year we'll actually be able to go to a doctor again (if we don't have any emergencies between now and then). :(
 
bongos1.png

Here's the solution to both of those problems, Broken... ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzmVSGFW5HY
 
I know, and apparently I'm to blame...oh the shame.
Then again, the video IS about fake drums (at least fake bongos).
 
Here's an older one from before I was as confident as I am now on the drums. I played all the parts, in separate parts, and had to edit some bits as my timing was not so good with being a crappy drummer.

I guess the best thing about programmable drums, for the home record-ist who can't play so well, is the editing functions.

View attachment So Untrue Drums.mp3

View attachment So Untrue All.mp3

EDIT* I forgot to remove the Tambourine and Maracas from the Drum Solo file. They are real instruments.
 
I'm going to be a d*$k and repost my most recent clinic song here. I want anyone to tell me what can be improved on the drums, as I think they are my biggest setback. I manually humanize, meaning I unselect "snap" when I write any parts. Also, Superior Drummer grooves are not in perfect time (this conversation was had in another sub-forum not too long ago), so anything I didn't write myself is pre-humanized. I leave off the room mics almost completely. I use a flat-plate verb on the snare, 4:0 comp on bass and snare, 6:0 on toms, and 2:0 on OH's (about there anyways, it's a little different for each tune). Kick bus is HP at 20hz with a big dip of about 10dbs around 700hz with a wide Q. Same for toms. Snare bus only has HP, and it's set at 90hz. Even though there are 3 kick and snare mics, I only EQ and compress the busses of each, not every mic; just as a group. The snare is the "black betty" and it's the only one I can stand out of the NY Avatar kit. I haven't played with pitch on any piece.

Does anything stand out to you that could be improved on drums here? I know this is in the clinic, i'm sorry. I just thought maybe I could get some more help on the drums here by this targeted thread.

 
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Robus said:
Maybe an electronic kit is the way to go.
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Maybe. If you are a capable enough drummer. Which i am not. I considered renting a kit over the holidays and actually giving it an actual go to see if it is something i can do. History shows i could never separate my kick drum leg from my hi-hat hand. they just wanted to do the same thing. But i never realy made an effort to "actually learn"
 
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