Paiste hi-hats and rides discovery

pandamonk

pandamonk

Well-known member
Alright guys. I was trying out the sound-files on the paiste site as I'm looking for cymbals for drum pupils of mine, and I think I've mad e a bit of a discovery. Now i know you can't fully trust sound-files, especially on shitty computer speaks and headphones that I'm listenin on, but if you have no other way of testing them out, they can be quite good.

Anyway, i sold a drumkit last xmas to a girl i now teach. It came with a really cheap brass hihat, but this thing sounds really good, imo. So in looking for cymbals for her(girl 1) and another girl(girl 2) i teach, i came across a great deal on a set of Paiste 101s. I snapped them up, because they are just beginners and just want some cymbals. They arrived and i tried them out. The ride and crash are nothing special, but again i liked the brass hi-hat.

I'm giving girl 2 the hihat and the girl 1 the crash and ride(she already has that nice hihat and just wants cymbals). Anyway, girl 1 wants more than 1 cymbal and girl 2 wants a couple cymbals, so i was looking out for some more and ended up on the paiste site. I was trying out the sound-samples and thought it try out some of the dearer cymbals for comparison and here's what i found:

14" 101 brass hihat
14" 2002 medium hihat

18" PST3 crash/ride
20" 2002 ride
20" PST3 ride
22" 2002 ride

Is it just me, or does the 101 hihat sound pretty close to the 2002 medium. Not exactly the same in an A/B comparison, but close. And wouldn't they be hard to distinguish between without A/B comparison? 2002 is roughly 5-6x the price.

And the 18" and 20" PST3 rides, wouldn't they fit quite nicely in the 2002 range, with the 20" PST3 between 20" and 22" 2002s (the 14" hats actually fit between the 13" and 14" too). They're not exact again, but would also be quite difficult outwith A/B. The 2002s are roughly 3-4x the price.

I know that I'm listening on crap speakers/headphones, that sound-files aren't a good way to try cymbals, and my ears aren't perfect, but there doesn't appear to be much in it.

What do you think? Do the 2002s deserve to b 3-6x the price?
 
pandamonk said:
What do you think? Do the 2002s deserve to b 3-6x the price?
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Abso-freakin-lutely.

I didn't fully believe it at first, with a lot of ear training and tapping on hundreds of different cymbals, there is a huge difference between the cheap stuff and the good stuff.

The 2002's are the best cymbals I've ever heard. I have a full array of 2002's. :D

They record well and project beautifully.

In the clips you posted, the 2002's have substantially more mid-range and fullness while still having the edge needed to cut through any mix or wall of instruments. Those cheaper PST's are nice for cheaper cymbals, but they're pretty shrill if you really get to jamming on them. If you're just gonna have students bashing away at them, save your money and get the PST's. If you want a beautiful sounding set of cymbals for your own personal use, you'll love the 2002's. :D
 
Greg_L said:
Abso-freakin-lutely.

I didn't fully believe it at first, with a lot of ear training and tapping on hundreds of different cymbals, there is a huge difference between the cheap stuff and the good stuff.

The 2002's are the best cymbals I've ever heard. I have a full array of 2002's. :D

They record well and project beautifully.

In the clips you posted, the 2002's have substantially more mid-range and fullness while still having the edge needed to cut through any mix or wall of instruments. Those cheaper PST's are nice for cheaper cymbals, but they're pretty shrill if you really get to jamming on them. If you're just gonna have students bashing away at them, save your money and get the PST's. If you want a beautiful sounding set of cymbals for your own personal use, you'll love the 2002's. :D
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Cheers Greg. Yeah, like i said, I don't have the best listening environment(not down at the studio) to hear these. But i would have still expected to hear more of a difference. Would you be able to tell the difference in a blind sound-clip test and with other instruments?

I do completely understand that sound-clips are nothing like the real thing. My students will be guinea-pigs ;) and i think they will be decent for students. A good first set anyway.
 
Greg_L said:
If you want a beautiful sounding set of cymbals for your own personal use, you'll love the 2002's. :D
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Ohh and yeah, if you remember, i have the Stagg DHs. I love them :p The crashes and china anyway. Have you tried them out yourself yet?
 
pandamonk said:
Cheers Greg. Yeah, like i said, I don't have the best listening environment(not down at the studio) to hear these. But i would have still expected to hear more of a difference. Would you be able to tell the difference in a blind sound-clip test and with other instruments?
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Probably. I'm no expert by anymeans, but if it's a good mix you can definitely hear the difference. I hear a pretty big difference in these clips. One thing about Paiste's that I've noticed is that they're very consistent with their higher end stuff. If you go to one place and whack a 16" 2002 crash and go somewhere else and whack another, they will sound very similar. If you hear one live, and then order one off the net, it's a gamble but you can be pretty sure that the Paiste will sound like you remember. You can't really say the same for Zildjian or Sabian.

I do completely understand that sound-clips are nothing like the real thing. My students will be guinea-pigs ;) and i think they will be decent for students. A good first set anyway.
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Yeah the PST's would be fine for students. I personally wouldn't want a bunch of newbs beating on my 2002's. ;)
 
Greg_L said:
I remember. I've only come across a few, and I wasn't impressed. :o :p

The 2002's murder any Stagg. :D
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Typical! I knew you'd say this :p

I'd probably have to agree that they would, but Staggs are amazing for the price and murder a lot of much more expensive cymbals, imo. :D
 
Greg_L said:
Probably. I'm no expert by anymeans, but if it's a good mix you can definitely hear the difference. I hear a pretty big difference in these clips. One thing about Paiste's that I've noticed is that they're very consistent with their higher end stuff. If you go to one place and whack a 16" 2002 crash and go somewhere else and whack another, they will sound very similar. If you hear one live, and then order one off the net, it's a gamble but you can be pretty sure that the Paiste will sound like you remember. You can't really say the same for Zildjian or Sabian.
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or Stagg, tbh.

Greg_L said:
Yeah the PST's would be fine for students. I personally wouldn't want a bunch of newbs beating on my 2002's. ;)
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Have you tried he PST rides and 101 hats? I wouldn't buy the crashes, but the hats and PST ride seem really good for the money. There is certainly a different between the clips, i admit that, but it's nowhere near as big as i expected.

Don't worry, I'm not gonna test you out with a blind test. I think you probably could too, but they are a lot closer I'd expect. Do you agree?
 
pandamonk said:
or Stagg, tbh.
Have you tried he PST rides and 101 hats? I wouldn't buy the crashes, but the hats and PST ride seem really good for the money. There is certainly a different between the clips, i admit that, but it's nowhere near as big as i expected.
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I've never played 101 hats, but I have played the 201's which are bronze. They're kind of clunky and have a pretty trashy open sound. The closed sound is okay. I've played PST rides lots of times, and they're not bad at all for students or just for fun drumming. The PST crashes and hats sound pretty cheap though.

Don't worry, I'm not gonna test you out with a blind test. I think you probably could too, but they are a lot closer I'd expect. Do you agree?
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I kind of agree. They're not that close to me, but the clips can lead you to think that they're closer in sound than they really are. Yeah they all sound like hats and rides, but there are subtle and not so subtle differences. The differences are about what I expected. But, I have heard most of these Paiste cymbals in person and with live instruments. I have some experience with them even though my personal bias is pretty evident. The higher end cymbals in any major brand are typically gonna blow away the cheaper lines once you really get to hear them though. The good stuff is very expensive, but for good reason. Put an actual 101 hat next to an actual 2002 and it's really not close at all.
 
Greg_L said:
I've never played 101 hats, but I have played the 201's which are bronze. They're kind of clunky and have a pretty trashy open sound. The closed sound is okay. I've played PST rides lots of times, and they're not bad at all for students or just for fun drumming. The PST crashes and hats sound pretty cheap though.



I kind of agree. They're not that close to me, but the clips can lead you to think that they're closer in sound than they really are. Yeah they all sound like hats and rides, but there are subtle and not so subtle differences. The differences are about what I expected. But, I have heard most of these Paiste cymbals in person and with live instruments. I have some experience with them even though my personal bias is pretty evident. The higher end cymbals in any major brand are typically gonna blow away the cheaper lines once you really get to hear them though. The good stuff is very expensive, but for good reason. Put an actual 101 hat next to an actual 2002 and it's really not close at all.
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The those crashes do sound cheap. I like the 101 hihat(i already have it for the student) and pst3 ride(only heard online) though.

I've not heard them in person(or if i have, i can't remember them) so all i have to go on are the clips. I think they do sound quite similar, with some differences. A lot closer than i'd expect. I expect them to sound quite different in person, but tbh, it's in the recording that counts. I'll try them out when I get them for the girls and next time i'm in drum shop that sells both, I'll A/B them.

I do love the sound of the student's cheap brass hihat though :P and i have tried out high-end hats before and not been that impressed(maybe it's 'cause i didn't expect a cheap brass set to sound any good though). I don't really like my 12" stagg DH hats, so i might go to a drum shop soon :D when I've got some money.
 
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Lol. I can't imagine a 12" hi-hat would sound good regardless of brand or price. :p

I think the thing with the high end stuff with any brand is that they're "pro" quality, and therefore designed with pro-style recording or playing live with pro equipment. Just tapping on set of hats by themselves or on a kit without a bunch of instruments around doesn't give you their full effect. You kind of have to use your imagination and whatever personal experience you have. A full set of Zildjian K's are overkill and not best suited for a garage punk band playing through small and crappy solid-state amps, just like a set of 101's wouldn't cut the mustard in a full rock band playing through high quality 100 watt tube amps.

I must say though that my 2002's sound sweet everywhere. :D
 
Greg_L said:
Lol. I can't imagine a 12" hi-hat would sound good regardless of brand or price. :p

I think the thing with the high end stuff with any brand is that they're "pro" quality, and therefore designed with pro-style recording or playing live with pro equipment. Just tapping on set of hats by themselves or on a kit without a bunch of instruments around doesn't give you their full effect. You kind of have to use your imagination and whatever personal experience you have. A full set of Zildjian K's are overkill and not best suited for a garage punk band playing through small and crappy solid-state amps, just like a set of 101's wouldn't cut the mustard in a full rock band playing through high quality 100 watt tube amps.

I must say though that my 2002's sound sweet everywhere. :D
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Haha, you love your 2002s :rolleyes:

What about the Paiste Alpha 12" Rhythm X-hats or even 10" Mini X-hats? Aww they sound quite nasty on those clips though. Mine aren't anything like that. Mine sound a bit too boingy though, if you know what i mean.
 
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pandamonk said:
Haha, you love your 2002s :rolleyes:

What about the Paiste Alpha 12" Rhythm X-hats or even 10" Mini X-hats? Aww they sound quite nasty on those clips though. Mine aren't anything like that. The sound a bit too boingy though, if you know what i mean.
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I've never personally heard any 10" hats, and really, I don't want to. Even most 13" hats sound small and weak unless you're playing some low volume jazz. I'm a fan of big drum sounds. My hats are 15". I like big toms, big kick drums, big ride bells, big everything. Big drums and big cymbals = big sounds. :D
 
Greg_L said:
I've never personally heard any 10" hats, and really, I don't want to. Even most 13" hats sound small and weak unless you're playing some low volume jazz. I'm a fan of big drum sounds. My hats are 15". I like big toms, big kick drums, big ride bells, big everything. Big drums and big cymbals = big sounds. :D
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Yeah. I like playing small drums. I have 20" kick, 10", 12" & 14" toms, and 12" & 14" snares. My cymbals are 8" splash(it's ok), 12" hats(not great), 14" & 15" crashes(love them), 14" china(like it too) and 19" crash/ride(don't like it much). Big drums do sound good for certain things, but smaller drums, imo, sound more controlled and that is what i like. Especially in the small room i have. But anyway, that's probably why you don't like my recordings. Everything is small. :o It's not the size, but how you use it though ;):rolleyes:
 
pandamonk said:
Yeah. I like playing small drums. I have 20" kick, 10", 12" & 14" toms, and 12" & 14" snares. My cymbals are 8" splash(it's ok), 12" hats(not great), 14" & 15" crashes(love them), 14" china(like it too) and 19" crash/ride(don't like it much). Big drums do sound good for certain things, but smaller drums, imo, sound more controlled and that is what i like. Especially in the small room i have. But anyway, that's probably why you don't like my recordings. Everything is small. :o It's not the size, but how you use it though ;):rolleyes:
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I don't remember not liking your recordings. I just didn't like your cymbals. Small drums are okay. Small cymbals are ear damaging. :D
 
Greg_L said:
I don't remember not liking your recordings. I just didn't like your cymbals. Small drums are okay. Small cymbals are ear damaging. :D
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Ahh ok. I didn't like my toms in that recording, but I've got new heads now, which are much better. Haha, all cymbals are ear damaging!! :p
 
sorry if i'm jacking the thread

I was surprised at how musical the lower end hats were though. They may not have the characteristics that would make them sound good in a recording or cut through so that they sound good live, but they don't have horrid overtones that, well I've witnessed in crap cymbals. Going by the online samples - with a little tlc, eq and attention to space in a mix they give the impression they could sound decent. Greg you were talking about mid-range and fullness lacking in the cheaper sets, if that's the only real difference then I think my next purchase will be wallet friendly. I'm not too keen on hearing the stick hitting the hats as clearly as I've heard in some high end hats nor am I into a thick open sound. Even when I had a roland mesh-head kit, I was picking a very thin jazzy sounding hat sample. Do you think these more... cost effective hats would excell at such sounds? If so do you think that it's only for certain genre's that you may need to splash the cash? eg rock that needs the fuller mid range open sound, or metal where you need more defined stick etc.

:)
 
_brian_ said:
Greg you were talking about mid-range and fullness lacking in the cheaper sets, if that's the only real difference then I think my next purchase will be wallet friendly.
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That's fine but you'll be making a foolish mistake. I can't explain it. You just have to hear it. Cheap cymbals are cheap for a reason. I like some of them, but you really notice how sucky they are once you spend some time with truly good cymbals. Belive me, I defended cheap cymbals for as long as I could. I just couldn't do it anymore after really sitting down with good cymbals. Huge difference in every aspect of design and sound.

Cheap cymbals sound one way, and one way only. You can coax all sorts of sounds and textures from good cymbals.
 
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