New studio construction

RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Disclaimers are in order. I am no expert. Here is my OPINION only.

On the contrary. Studio designers target RT-60 for the types of music to be recorded in them. Rock bands are not recorded in the same environments as classical, nor is jazz recorded in the same RT-60 environment as rock.

Sure it is. All the time. Honestly.

The secret is simple (and expensive) - large studios are the most flexible. There are plenty of rooms, mostly on the east and west coasts, that were designed back in the 40's, 50's and 60's, where recording big band jazz, radio orchestras, and film music were the prime directives. Those rooms make excellent places to record rock records, and are used more for that now than what they were desinged for. Examples include Ocean Way, Cello, A&M.

The late Columbia Records 30th street studios in Manhattan were built in an old church, and the dimensions of the room were approx. 100x100x100 (!). Obviously, lots of classical records were done there, but so were all of the Columbia jazz records from to 50's (all of the Mile's Davis small group stuff), as well as all of the early 60's Bob Dylan records, and Simon and Garfunkel records.

The neat thing about working in large rooms, even highly reverberant ones, is that instruments that are close mic'ed sound as though they are in a pretty dead environment, since the Distance Constant is so high. Pulling the mic back away begins to reveal the "room sound".

I know this is pretty academic, since few of us (me included, except for a few occassions) will ever do work in rooms that are that big, but they are out there, and they do work.


They also target a time delay gap in the control room LONGER than in the studio, so you can HEAR it as you monitor. Hence, a control room is desireable with a rear wall reflection that is at least 20ms longer than the path of sound from a source in the studio, to the first boundary and back to the mic. However, I'm no expert so don't quote me. [/B]


You may not be an expert, but you're saying the right stuff - actually, they try to keep it somewhere in the 22ms range, and it's known as the Haas Effect - much longer than that, and the brain starts to hear it as a discreet echo, and much shorter, you begin to hear it is comb filtering. In any case, having those diffuse reflections coming back to you within that time window is thought by some to be preferable.

QUOTE]By the way, supposedly, the brain will integrate any reflection arriving at the ears within 20ms of the direct sound. That is the reasoning. As usual though, there are proponets and opponents of any theory or school of thought. Even LEDE is stated NOT TO WORK by most these days. It seems time, taste, and evolution of technology and science changes everything eventually. Recording is not exempt. Otherwise we would still be recording for MONO. From what I understand, surround 7.1 is just around the corner. Talk about an engineers nightmare.

However, lava lamps negate all discrepencys in the studio.:D
fitZ [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, everyone has their own ideas about what works, and what doesn't. I'm pretty flexible, and in my basment studio, I'm breaking every rule of good control room design (as in, not really having a control room at all). It works for me, it wouldn't work for everyone, and I'm guessing that a whole bunch of people just wouldn't tolerate it. but I'm used to it!

John
 
Hello John, remind me never to play pool with you.:p I may know some things, but it is by reading only. And I was just trying to help, but it is obvious now that it was a trap. ;) Thanks for the clarification. And actually, the ONLY thing I'm an expert at is making a fool of myself. which seems to be every time I open my mouth around here. :rolleyes:

fitZ
 
RICK FITZPATRICK said:
Hello John, remind me never to play pool with you.:p I may know some things, but it is by reading only. And I was just trying to help, but it is obvious now that it was a trap. ;) Thanks for the clarification. And actually, the ONLY thing I'm an expert at is making a fool of myself. which seems to be every time I open my mouth around here. :rolleyes:

fitZ

Oh man, I'm not an expert at anything! You stated what you had to say was an opinion, but really, so is everything I said.

Nothing you said was wrong - designers do try to build rooms that meet what their owners expect - it's just at the high end of the spectrum, the owners expect a lot. Flexibility is key.

I'm not trying to irritate anyone, either - I really do like to discuss this stuff, and I really do want to know how other people do things. I like to learn as much as the next guy!

John
 
RickW said:
John - I haven't brought up any gear at all here. I did buy some new gear...mainly monitors, mics and a DAW...but I haven't decided on exactly which software I want to go with yet. I'm tossed between Cubase SX and Samplitude, but Cubase seems to be the front runner right now. The only thing turning me off on Samplitude is the price. We'll see what happens. What I'm using now will suffice for quite a while and I can use the PC for editing in the meantime.

I tracked down a copy of Samp 6 for $99 and the upgrade to Samp 7 from that is $199, so I saved $250 by going that route. It looks like JDSound still has a copy. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41786&item=3719084301&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


The studio is looking good and spacious. Maybe I will get mine finished this year.

SoMm
 
Thanks, SoMm! I'll have to check that out. I'd want to upgrade to the Professional version, and for that price, I could do it for about the same money as Cubase SX. Decisions, decisions. Time for more homework.

BTW - I've seen pics of your studio...can't remember where (John Sayers sight maybe?). It looks pretty finished. What more are you doing?
 
Actually, I did look at Nuendo, but at twice the price of Cubase, I didn't think it was for me. From what I'm reading around the boards, Cubase SX has come very close to Nuendo as far as audio, but Nuendo has more features regarding video - which is not what I'm interested in doing. For my needs, Cubase would have more bang for the buck and Nuendo would have lots of bells and whistles I'd never use. That's why I was looking at Samplitude. Has many of the features of Cubase (the pro version may have more), but there's a price difference that bothers me. I also want to take into consideration things like support and reputation. Cubase may be more popular among the masses, but Samplitude has also proven itself over the duration.

I think my thread has gotten OT a little. :-)
 
Rick.... looks really nice..especially the piece you made for your mixer, etc. I like the flooring too. Looks like what you have done so far, represents A LOT of work!! I'll be anxious to see more pics..

cya round DX!
 
new studio construcion

Looks great....I'm going to be adding on to my house and will end up with a "family room" sized room for recording. I want to build it right from the get go......I'd also like to hear about the materials used, how the floor was done, etc.......

My room will be in the downstairs of my house, three of the walls will not touch another room, one wall will be against the garage and then the ceiling will be under part of the house.

I don't know the square footage i'll have just yet..........

any thoughts, advise is welcome
 
RickW said:
TIt looks pretty finished. What more are you doing?

Wiring is pretty much chinese noodles for starters.

I need to float the floor in the vocal booth, floating drum riser in the live room as well as build an entire room inside the live room. The other half of the garage is still useable as a garage. My designs are to make it convertable by moving 4 basic pieces to block out the garage door area. Big pain but If I need to work on the car or something I need to move everything. Challenging design. Maybe when I get down to the details I can post a scan.

In the control room Im still tweaking the room response. I have a hollow door in the control room thats sucking up too much LF while kicking back too much HF, Im working on a some bass traps on one side and increasing the mass of the door.
It takes time and money that I don;t have in the chunks that I like. Every summer Im doing something.


Peace,
SoMm


Samplitude is working well for me, its a great deal IMO.
 
MichaelJ

I'll try to post some thoughts for you when I get a chance. Not that I actually KNOW what to do, but I'll let you know what I did. For starters though, read all you can!!
 
SoMm

I picked up a copy of Samplitude. Figured I couldn't go wrong for that price. Something to get me going anyway. Thanks for the advice!

Good luck with the studio (are they ever finished?) :-)

Chinese noodles! lol I'll be at that point next week...looking forward to it but not looking forward to it. You know what I mean.
 
Re: SoMm

RickW said:
I picked up a copy of Samplitude. Figured I couldn't go wrong for that price. Something to get me going anyway. Thanks for the advice!


I think the thing is that most of the software out there does similar things (although people are arguing about which one sounds best, works best, etc), and the thing that I think gets overlooked is that different people are going to use computers differently in the studio - Some people may need tones of plugins, or heavy midi editing, or whatever.

Obviously, some software is geared to do some things better than others (for instance, while Samplitude gets better about midi with every update, I don't think it would be my number one for heavy midi work), I find I could work with nearly anything out there. I stick with Samplitude mainly because I've used it for almost 10 years (and know it really well), and it has been really stable for me.

I guess my point is this - I was in Comp USA the other day, and was looking at the cheap Magix version of Samplitude (Music Studio, or something like that), and it looked that I could use that with little problem, judgeing by what it said there on the box. I'm sure there would be features I'd miss, but I could probably make it work fine.



John
 
Good point, John. It was actually your experience with Samplitude that got me even thinking of that program originally. Some people still have never heard of it. My problem is, I'm so old school that I really don't WANT to rely on a computer for recording. I realize that's the way the industry is moving, but not all progress (to me) is for the better. Computers are still to unreliable. Besides, I never liked them. :-) The sound quality difference itself has never bothered me - I've heard great recordings done with software and lousy recordings done with tape, so that's the least thing to worry about. I know my outlook will change in the future...but only because I'll be forced to change. The industry is dragging us in this direction, whether we want to go or not. As with a lot of industries (I'm in printing and it's the same there), the idea of computers being faster and better is being swallowed by the public...just like buying music. They may save some time, but still, they're only as good as the people using them - but doesn't that pertain to all machinery?

So, to get back on track, I'll be getting the glass this week and equipment will start being installed by the end of the week. Will post more pics soon.
 
Well, it's been a while, but the gear is in place. I don't have it all wired up yet, but it will be this week. Got postponed on the glass so I can't have it installed until early next week. It's always something! :-)

I wanted to post pics but left my camera at the studio. Figures. I'll get some here shortly. Actually hooked up a couple of things last night to make sure the computer was working correctly. Heard audio for the first time in the room! I didn't pay attention to what the room sounded like (before anyone asks)...I was just psyched to hear something finally! I'm gettin' excited!!
 
OK I realize that you're probably getting bored with this by now, and it's really not a "home" studio anymore (it is to me), but I've been busting my butt working here and stressing out constantly, so this is my way of venting. I'm not trying to blow my own horn (just a look at the gear will tell you it's not that great), but I'm proud of what's getting accomplished and it's sooooooooooo close. I have lots of friends to thank along the way, and this board has helped a lot in the past few months. I still have a little way to go...like some of Ethan's bass traps, for instance...but I'm gonna share som more pics with you. Thanks for looking. Here's what's been done this past week.

BTW - these are not wired up yet, but will be soon.
 
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