New studio construction
- Thread starter RickW
- Start date
Hey Rick,
Much like the work, the questions will never end (at least from me)
So, you've been recording to hard disc - is that straight into the computer, or do you now have some sort of hard-disc recorder?
As far as your main room sounding muddy, that's my basic issue with my place - but having many of those absorbers down there, as well as the carpets on the floor (and 7' basement ceilings), that's how it's going to be. Even with most mics being as bright as they are these days, I often have to add a bit of top end to the finished mixes.
So, what new mics do you have, and how do you like them? What is it that you don't have, that you wished you had?
John
Much like the work, the questions will never end (at least from me)
So, you've been recording to hard disc - is that straight into the computer, or do you now have some sort of hard-disc recorder?
As far as your main room sounding muddy, that's my basic issue with my place - but having many of those absorbers down there, as well as the carpets on the floor (and 7' basement ceilings), that's how it's going to be. Even with most mics being as bright as they are these days, I often have to add a bit of top end to the finished mixes.
So, what new mics do you have, and how do you like them? What is it that you don't have, that you wished you had?
John
RickW
Don't read this
I'm back
Sorry for being gone so long. My computer had a major crash. THAT'S the reason for not putting the studio PC online! So this is my first night back since it's been fixed.
Anyway, things are going fine so far at the studio. Had a couple of problems with the mixer but hopefully they are straightened out now. I've actually booked my first paying client! They found me through the flyers I put in music stores. So they booked ten hours so far (for late July) but what a cool feeling to get that call!
Still have yet to do a check in the drum booth with the kit mic'ed up, but that will be this week.
More to come soon.....
Sorry for being gone so long. My computer had a major crash. THAT'S the reason for not putting the studio PC online! So this is my first night back since it's been fixed.
Anyway, things are going fine so far at the studio. Had a couple of problems with the mixer but hopefully they are straightened out now. I've actually booked my first paying client! They found me through the flyers I put in music stores. So they booked ten hours so far (for late July) but what a cool feeling to get that call!
Still have yet to do a check in the drum booth with the kit mic'ed up, but that will be this week.
More to come soon.....
RickW
Don't read this
JohnL
John, I'm recording straight to the PC. I have two 40 gig HDs installed but also will be adding removable bays soon. The new mics I have are a pair of SP B3's that sound great. A little high endy on some vocals (sibilance stands out) but smooth on others. Only tried on male singers as of now. I also got a pair of ECM8000's that I haven't tried yet, but I took your advice on those. ;-)
The mics I'd like to get next are a 414 (but with new numbers, it's more confusing), an MXL V67G, a SP C1, a pair of SP C4's...whatever else strikes my fancy. I wouldn't mind picking up a used pair of 421's. I'm also keeping my eyes open for a pair of mid-field monitors - preferably with a 12" - but that may wait til next year.
Keep the questions coming!
John L said:
John, I'm recording straight to the PC. I have two 40 gig HDs installed but also will be adding removable bays soon. The new mics I have are a pair of SP B3's that sound great. A little high endy on some vocals (sibilance stands out) but smooth on others. Only tried on male singers as of now. I also got a pair of ECM8000's that I haven't tried yet, but I took your advice on those. ;-)
The mics I'd like to get next are a 414 (but with new numbers, it's more confusing), an MXL V67G, a SP C1, a pair of SP C4's...whatever else strikes my fancy. I wouldn't mind picking up a used pair of 421's. I'm also keeping my eyes open for a pair of mid-field monitors - preferably with a 12" - but that may wait til next year.
Keep the questions coming!
RickW said:John, I'm recording straight to the PC. I have two 40 gig HDs installed but also will be adding removable bays soon. The new mics I have are a pair of SP B3's that sound great. A little high endy on some vocals (sibilance stands out) but smooth on others. Only tried on male singers as of now. I also got a pair of ECM8000's that I haven't tried yet, but I took your advice on those. ;-)
The mics I'd like to get next are a 414 (but with new numbers, it's more confusing), an MXL V67G, a SP C1, a pair of SP C4's...whatever else strikes my fancy. I wouldn't mind picking up a used pair of 421's. I'm also keeping my eyes open for a pair of mid-field monitors - preferably with a 12" - but that may wait til next year.
Keep the questions coming!
I hear good things about the Studio Projects mics, but I haven't heard them, nor do I know someone that I could borrow one from... then again, the last thing I need around here is another mic (although I could always find another one to buy). Anyway, I'm glad those are working out.
The ECM8000's are great room and ambience mics - I don' know if you're into that sort of thing, but there is certainly nothing else out there for the money that comes close. They are a bit noisy, but when recording drums or loud guitars, that hasn't been much of a problem.
As far as 421's, if you're going to use them as tom mics, I'd just as soon buy the $99 Sennheiser E604's - they're somewhat close in performance. If you're going to use them on other things, like horns, I think I'd stick with the 421's. Also, if you're looking for a good guitar-amp dymanic, those Sennheiser E609 Silver's are great, and they're about $80 each. Enough mic stuff.
Have you heard any mid-field monitors that you liked? I used to have a pair of Alesis Monitor 2's a long time ago, and they were barely useable. I've heard some of the old-school JBL stuff, and while have a hard time remembering exactly what it sounded like, I seem to remember liking it at the time. I'd be curious to see what you end up liking.
So, recording the few things you have (and probably drums by now), you've got to be getting a pretty good feel for the place. Are you going to try the drums in both the drum booth and the main room, or do you plan to keep them mostly in the booth?
Are outside engineers welcome?
John
John
RickW
Don't read this
John L said:As far as 421's, if you're going to use them as tom mics, I'd just as soon buy the $99 Sennheiser E604's - they're somewhat close in performance. If you're going to use them on other things, like horns, I think I'd stick with the 421's. Also, if you're looking for a good guitar-amp dymanic, those Sennheiser E609 Silver's are great, and they're about $80 each. Enough mic stuff.
Have you heard any mid-field monitors that you liked? I used to have a pair of Alesis Monitor 2's a long time ago, and they were barely useable. I've heard some of the old-school JBL stuff, and while have a hard time remembering exactly what it sounded like, I seem to remember liking it at the time. I'd be curious to see what you end up liking.
So, recording the few things you have (and probably drums by now), you've got to be getting a pretty good feel for the place. Are you going to try the drums in both the drum booth and the main room, or do you plan to keep them mostly in the booth?
Are outside engineers welcome?
John
John
I was thinking about the e609's. I haven't seen them for $80 though, but I've seen them at $99 and still think that's a deal. The e604's I haven't been able to find at all. The 421's are still in the dream stage, as is the 414.
The monitors I have in mind are the Urei's. I've seen a couple of pairs on eBay, but the shipping would be crazy. They're not too expensive used and most people either love them or hate them. I've worked in a studio (Zing) that has a pair and I thought they sounded good. Not much out there with a 12". I looked at a few JBL's on eBay, but they're getting decent money for them and I've never heard them myself. Too much of a gamble. The Alesis I have no interest in.
Actually haven't recorded drums yet. Had a few equipment problems to take care of first. Will get to those this week. I'm probably going to try them in both rooms because the micing will be different.
If you're talking about YOU as an outside engineer...anytime you want, bud!
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
Rick, if you can pick up some Urei time aligned, you won' be disappointed. I would think there ought to be some used ones on the east coast that you could find and pick up without driving all day. I've use them and like them. On the other hand, I have some old JBL 4311 speakers with 12" woofers (three way speakers), that I like the most. To me, they kick the $@%^ out of these new fangled nearfields that everyone seems to like nowadays.... I see them going for peanuts all the time and I always lust at getting a 2nd pair. I use mine in a 17 x17 room and they work great. Oh...while we are on "old school", I gotta say I like my Auratones too!.... supprisingly they sound very similar to my JBL's instead of some TV speaker!... and the JBL's sound greeeeeeaaaat!
oh...yeah...your ADAT's.... I don't think you'll ever go back!!
oh...yeah...your ADAT's.... I don't think you'll ever go back!!
Hey Rick,
As far as the 609's being $80, try fullcompass.com - they're a pro audio house right outside of Madison, Wisconsin, and they tend to be pretty cheap. I've never had any problems with them, and I've ordered lots of stuff from them. If you're buying anything new, they usually beat the best prices I've seen.
As far as the 800 series Urei's, Chirs is right, those can be very nice. I do know a guy that has a pair of 813's (the bigger ones, and he swears by them - they sure are loud). I've always been curious to hear the 809's, which are the single coaxial 12's - that seemed like the best choince in size for any room I was going to be in.
As far as JBL's, Chris is right again, the ones I heard were the 4311's (or 4312's, the updated versions). I quite liked them at the time, and again, others swear by them. I don't know that I'm such a fan of studio monitors being three way, but if you want volume, that's the only way to go. Useful for cranking it up for the client.
The Alesis Monitor 2's were some of the worst monitors I've ever heard, but like the NS10 folklore, if you could get a mix to work on them, the mix generally translated well to other speakers. That still didn't make me like them.
John
As far as the 609's being $80, try fullcompass.com - they're a pro audio house right outside of Madison, Wisconsin, and they tend to be pretty cheap. I've never had any problems with them, and I've ordered lots of stuff from them. If you're buying anything new, they usually beat the best prices I've seen.
As far as the 800 series Urei's, Chirs is right, those can be very nice. I do know a guy that has a pair of 813's (the bigger ones, and he swears by them - they sure are loud). I've always been curious to hear the 809's, which are the single coaxial 12's - that seemed like the best choince in size for any room I was going to be in.
As far as JBL's, Chris is right again, the ones I heard were the 4311's (or 4312's, the updated versions). I quite liked them at the time, and again, others swear by them. I don't know that I'm such a fan of studio monitors being three way, but if you want volume, that's the only way to go. Useful for cranking it up for the client.
The Alesis Monitor 2's were some of the worst monitors I've ever heard, but like the NS10 folklore, if you could get a mix to work on them, the mix generally translated well to other speakers. That still didn't make me like them.
John
RickW
Don't read this
John - the 809's are what I had in mind. I've actually seen those going for the same prices as the JBL's, but I'm not that familiar with JBL as studio monitors. Aren't they just glorified stereo speakers? I don't know...I couldn't justify spending anywhere near $500 for JBLs when I can get Urei's for that price. The trick is to find some that don't have to be shipped. Shipping would definitely jack up the price! I was also looking to find a pair of NS10's, but the prices for those are outrageous. They may be considered a "standard", but they're not worth that. Not to me, anyway. But if I ever find some cheap someday, I'll pick them up.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
Rick...without exceptance, I would say the JBL 4311(and 4310 & 4312)speakers were probably the most popular speakers seen in studios thruout the 70's and 80's. In any particular picture of a control room, you'd probably see a pair of them somewhere, kinda like the NS10's as of more recent. As far as glorified stereo speakers, I wouldn't worry about that. I'd tend to think JBL made their impact in the studio monitor field and sound reinforcement area (not to mention all those guitar amps!), and with their name recognition branched off into the home stereo speaker market....like the L100 which was a popular bookshelf model..but that's just a guess with no fact to back it up. JBL made(makes) some really monster speakers too, not to mention the popular LSR series they have out now that just sound incredible. If I were to buy new, that's what I would get, without a doubt.
On a side note, I'd forget about the NS10's. They're really just a bunch of junk IMO and you won't find them useful at all for mixing....if anything just as a comparision speaker and there are much better for that. I'd keep your Peavys instead.
I've seen the 4311's go as cheap as $350 for a pair (probably listed around $1600 or so), but they were probably pretty rough too. That is probably the case with the $500 UREI's too, as they are initially higher priced. I'd expect to pay under a grand, but more than $500 for a nice used pair. Remember, they will probably be 20 years old or more. I've seen the monster UREI's (813) go for $1000 for a decent set. Mighty impressive speakers.
With quality "old" stuff like that around, I can't see spending $1500 on a pair of Mackie 824 or something like that, even though they classify as nearfields. I've used them a fair amount too, and they just don't have the low end in my opinion and start to "wimper" if you even think about cranking them.
On a side note, I'd forget about the NS10's. They're really just a bunch of junk IMO and you won't find them useful at all for mixing....if anything just as a comparision speaker and there are much better for that. I'd keep your Peavys instead.
I've seen the 4311's go as cheap as $350 for a pair (probably listed around $1600 or so), but they were probably pretty rough too. That is probably the case with the $500 UREI's too, as they are initially higher priced. I'd expect to pay under a grand, but more than $500 for a nice used pair. Remember, they will probably be 20 years old or more. I've seen the monster UREI's (813) go for $1000 for a decent set. Mighty impressive speakers.
With quality "old" stuff like that around, I can't see spending $1500 on a pair of Mackie 824 or something like that, even though they classify as nearfields. I've used them a fair amount too, and they just don't have the low end in my opinion and start to "wimper" if you even think about cranking them.
RickW
Don't read this
To mixmkr
Thanks for the info. I'm really sold on the Urei's, but they're not the easiest things to find. I've seen them every so often on eBay in the $500-$600 range, but you're looking at a picture and you can't listen to them, so buying them is a gamble (as is anything on eBay, I guess). I've also looked at the JBL's there when I've seen them. I didn't realize they were so expensive initially! Maybe I ought to pay more attention to them. Do you know the difference between the 4311 and 4312? Is it just a newer model difference?All I know is, for right now, I won't be needing anything. When I do get some bigger speakers, (probably next year) they will have to be supported from the ceiling rather than on stands. That's my only definite.
Regarding the NS10's, I pretty much have forgotten about them. That's why I said I'd probably pick up a pair if I found some cheap, but that doesn't seem to exist. I only know that with a studio for hire, the average person will expect to see NS10's, even if they don't know what they sound like. Maybe I could build some dummy boxes and throw some white speakers in 'em. Oh well, I guess I shouldn't worry about what people expect because they'll never see Pro Tools or an SSL at my studio either!
Though I wouldn't mind the SSL! ;-)
Thanks for the info. I'm really sold on the Urei's, but they're not the easiest things to find. I've seen them every so often on eBay in the $500-$600 range, but you're looking at a picture and you can't listen to them, so buying them is a gamble (as is anything on eBay, I guess). I've also looked at the JBL's there when I've seen them. I didn't realize they were so expensive initially! Maybe I ought to pay more attention to them. Do you know the difference between the 4311 and 4312? Is it just a newer model difference?All I know is, for right now, I won't be needing anything. When I do get some bigger speakers, (probably next year) they will have to be supported from the ceiling rather than on stands. That's my only definite.
Regarding the NS10's, I pretty much have forgotten about them. That's why I said I'd probably pick up a pair if I found some cheap, but that doesn't seem to exist. I only know that with a studio for hire, the average person will expect to see NS10's, even if they don't know what they sound like. Maybe I could build some dummy boxes and throw some white speakers in 'em. Oh well, I guess I shouldn't worry about what people expect because they'll never see Pro Tools or an SSL at my studio either!
Though I wouldn't mind the SSL! ;-)
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
the 4311's have white speakers if you gotta have white woofers!! ha!. but..I know you won't be disappointed with the UREI if you find some.
The 4310 preceeded the 4311's followed by the 4312's ... Who'd a thunk?? All three way with 12" woofers and mirror imaged.
I believe Harvey Gerst had his input in there somewhere when they were designed...not sure, but thought I read that somewhere in one of his posts, when they weren't moaning and bitching in the mic forum!
If I found a pair of NS10's for a $100 or so, I suppose I would pick up another pair, but they'd probably serve as speakers for my extra TV in the guest bedroom....but thinking about it, I'd still probably pass, with the exception that I know I could sell them for $300. ;-)
I mixed the Nashville summit at this Po-dunk studio in Nashville, and all they had were NS10's. It was a MAJOR nightmare. I brought the mixes home and wanted to throw up, they were that bad.
The 4310 preceeded the 4311's followed by the 4312's ... Who'd a thunk?? All three way with 12" woofers and mirror imaged.
I believe Harvey Gerst had his input in there somewhere when they were designed...not sure, but thought I read that somewhere in one of his posts, when they weren't moaning and bitching in the mic forum!
If I found a pair of NS10's for a $100 or so, I suppose I would pick up another pair, but they'd probably serve as speakers for my extra TV in the guest bedroom....but thinking about it, I'd still probably pass, with the exception that I know I could sell them for $300. ;-)
I mixed the Nashville summit at this Po-dunk studio in Nashville, and all they had were NS10's. It was a MAJOR nightmare. I brought the mixes home and wanted to throw up, they were that bad.
RickW
Don't read this
Thanks for the info! I have always been curious about the JBL's and you've just clued me in. I'm gonna hold off until I find Urei's. I'm in no rush right now.
That po-dunk studio you mixed at - Was it the same one that the summit was recorded at? I still have the master tapes from there (was it you or Gary that shipped me those?). I haven't even listened to them yet. They've been in storage with all the rest of my gear for a very long time. I'll have to dig those out soon.
That po-dunk studio you mixed at - Was it the same one that the summit was recorded at? I still have the master tapes from there (was it you or Gary that shipped me those?). I haven't even listened to them yet. They've been in storage with all the rest of my gear for a very long time. I'll have to dig those out soon.
stranglerfig
New member
All of our dreams right there...Nice Job! look at al lthe room he's got (and money) lol
stranglerfig
New member
RickW said:Thanks! Room...I have. Money...HAH! That went away a long time ago! I've been struggling to put this place together for years, but at least now it's usable. Not totally finished, but usable. Now the hard part is trying to get some of that money back.
Sorry I typed that when I was on page 2! didn't the other page links at the bottom right where you explained the money part. lol
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
RickW said:
yeah.... Fatback studios in the north side of Nashville. Very nice people and the rates were fairly cheap. Except...ALL they had were the Yamahas. ...and yeah, I sent you the ADATs. There are some decent moments in there, but the drum tracks and some harmonies just royally sucked. I went back and mixed the 12+ songs in a loooong day there after the summit. The engineers just sat there and let me do what I wanted, and didn't seem to laugh much behind my back!! (at least to my knowledge!). I mixed for 20+ minutes, took a break for 5 or 10...mixed some more. Had to try and save the ears!
NYMorningstar
Recording Modus Operandi
Rick is there any chance you'd give some of the info you used on the electrical wiring with maybe a few pics? Thanx