Hamas Attack

PorterhouseMusic said:
And murder several hundred thousand innocent small children and babies? That seems like the appropriate response to you?
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Which is the strategy employed by Hamas to carry out their attacks - using them as shields.

Given the mobs of those celebrating Arab violence the world over, including at American universities I sense many/most of those children are going to grow up to despise Israel.

You think there's a lot of Palestinians saying - "No, murderous attacks on our Israeli brothers are wrong - you must stop!!"?

If there's evidence to this effect I'd be curious to learn about it.

I don't know if going literal scorched-Earth would benefit Israel - the rest of the Arab world would still despise them.
 
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PorterhouseMusic said:
That's not true. But much of what you say at this forum is not true.
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Uh huh.

You forgot to address the rest of my post.

You think there's a lot of Palestinians saying - "No, murderous attacks on our Israeli brothers are wrong - you must stop!!"?

Since you fancy yourself to be the keeper of the truth if there's evidence to this effect I'd be curious to learn about it.
 
PorterhouseMusic said:
And murder several hundred thousand innocent small children and babies? That seems like the appropriate response to you?
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The appropriate response is to annihilate Hamas and keep at it with a refresher course to put a stop to the shit for the next.... forever. The children are the responsibility of their parents, parents who celebrate the butchering of civilians to include small children and babies. They've been warned, get the fuck out. It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if the people throughout the world celebrating the butchering took their place. Let the "Palestinian" people go to Egypt, or Syria, live peacefully with other arabs, they deserve each other. You know what would happen if Israel bulldozed and settled Gaza? They would thrive. The "Palestinians" have had that opportunity, with aid from around the world, which they have used to terrorize and to make war. War is what they want, give it to them.

Level it.
 
Mick Doobie said:
The appropriate response is to annihilate Hamas and keep at it with a refresher course to put a stop to the shit for the next.... forever. The children are the responsibility of their parents, parents who celebrate the butchering of civilians to include small children and babies. They've been warned, get the fuck out. It wouldn't hurt my feelings any if the people throughout the world celebrating the butchering took their place. Let the "Palestinian" people go to Egypt, or Syria, live peacefully with other arabs, they deserve each other. You know what would happen if Israel bulldozed and settled Gaza? They would thrive. The "Palestinians" have had that opportunity, with aid from around the world, which they have used to terrorize and to make war. War is what they want, give it to them.

Level it.
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Got it. :thumbs up:
 
So easily we lump "Them" all together "Palestinians" "Jews" "Christians" "Whites" "Blacks" "Chinese"...when a group of them do bad things we hang the "Them" noose around all of "them" It ain't like that at all....

We as individuals develop our world view and like a fingerprint no two are the same.
When we do pest control we don't take the the time to save the ones that aren't a problem. Kill em all and let God sort the good ones out right?

We humans come into this world helpless and dependent. With out the "village" we die. We are nurtured and cared for, educated and then grow and flow into the civilized community we clever little creatures believe we have come up with. With all our bells, whistles and beliefs. Watch an ant hill, a beehive. 1000's of little creatures moving along in harmony. But bring an outsider in or a gang of outsiders in and all hell breaks loose.. It's inbred into our NATURE...The nature of the beast.

Mick we're buds and we have surely argued before and agreed vehemently on things. I have already stated several times that what the Hamas did here is unforgivable and inexcusable so you don't need to ask me again if I think what they did was justified. It was a very cruel, well thought out but very foolish and horrific plan. Innocent victims and no positive results. Did the Hamas hurt Israeli's? Yes and now Israel is now pissed and feels more justified than ever to hate on the Palestinians and want pay back.

Insanity= doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....we're an insane species.

I started this thread to point out that ( shocker) we're getting biased one sided information. The masses are asses and watch and consume what they are fed and accept it as fact. I'm glad some have come here with open minds and shared information that is helpful in opening our eyes to a situation I don't think any of us here truly understand.

I've never understood the beef clearly and I sure don't claim to now...There are a lot of moving parts in this clusterfuck of mess and it definitely goes beyond just two religious groups not liking each other though that is what the poster child is in this mess.

I've used the analogy before...

Most of those Germans marching those Jews off to the gas chambers truly believed they were doing the right thing.
Just as surely most of those Hamas soldiers as they did their deeds in their crazy world view believed they were justified in doing what they did.
If taken aside and educated how they were manipulated and drank tainted Kool Aid I'm sure most would feel shame and remorse. But caught up in the moments of rage and mayhem, well "everybody's doing it" "remember the Alamo" they proved again we humans are malleable, fallible fools capable of horrendous acts in the name of whatever seems like a good reason at the time.

Sickened by it all.
 
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Look at the video I posted above. The "Palestinian" is attempting to get I assume his own kid killed by provoking the IDF. They want dead small children and babies, for propaganda purposes. They literally hate Jews more than they love their own children. Literally. They will get what they want, by design.
 
Shapiro in his talk speaks of how the Israeli's have a code of ethics...."Cleanliness of arms" meaning that lets try our best to keep the civilian casualties as low as possible....So now they can have a clean conscious cause they only killed a few children and pregnant mothers...How many is too many? 1 or 1 million...neither is acceptable or excusable. War is hell and when you decide to engage in it the baby definitely gets thrown out with the bath water...the cleansing. The way to avoid this shit is to resolve this hatred and discrimination before it it gets to that point where war is the only answer...Ah just let it simmer, it'll never boil over.
 
The truth is....

Hamas indiscriminately fires rockets across the border into Israel. Hamas did in fact purposely murder small children and babies as recently as this past weekend. Hamas purposely places military targets among their own people to maximize civilian casualties, women, small children, and babies. These are known facts. To deny them is to deny reality, and truth.
 
Mick Doobie said:
Look at the video I posted above. The "Palestinian" is attempting to get I assume his own kid killed by provoking the IDF. They want dead small children and babies, for propaganda purposes. They literally hate Jews more than they love their own children. Literally. They will get what they want, by design.
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I remember during the Vietnam war where little kids were strapped with bombs to help win the war...Sacrificing ones child for the cause... it has happened over and over in history. When you feel so defeated that you know they are going to die a horrible death anyway maybe that's enough to do the deed. For certain that particular story is a smoke screen for the fact that children have been killed by Israeli attacks, women have been raped and murdered by Israeli's too... but it was only this many, not that many...they're exaggerating..fabricating I call bullshit
 
Mick Doobie said:
The truth is....

Hamas purposely places military targets among their own people to maximize civilian casualties, women, small children, and babies.
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And Israel knowing they did still chose to attack and kill the innocents.... Well it's the Hamas fault, they chose to endanger those innocents. We had a job to do damnit.
These are known facts. To deny them is to deny reality, and truth.
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How many innocents are OK to kill?
 
TAE said:
And Israel knowing they did still chose to attack and kill the innocents.... Well it's the Hamas fault, they chose to endanger those innocents. We had a job to do damnit.


How many innocents are OK to kill?
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Tom, you're talking shit. The world is not how we would wish it to be, some won't allow it. One's primary obligation is to protect your own, in all facets of life. Israel has/is providing sufficient warning, war is what you want, war is what you will get. Stand clear. It is a defensive obligation to act, to prevent more of the same as what we saw this past weekend.
 
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gecko zzed said:
I rarely make political comment at HR. But I found this video by Vlad Vexler a good guide on how to respond to the situation in Israel-Hamas conflict. Vexler more usually analyses the Russian Ukrainian war, but has recently started dwelling on the middle east. The video goes for about 10 minutes.



There is another longer video from Vexler that dwells on ethical considerations on combatants/non-combatants and colateral damage:

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Thanks GZ Vlad speaks deep wisdom here way. To deep and pragmatic for the masses to take the time to hear and "get it"
 
Mick Doobie said:
The truth is....

Hamas indiscriminately fires rockets across the border into Israel. Hamas did in fact purposely murder small children and babies as recently as this past weekend. Hamas purposely places military targets among their own people to maximize civilian casualties, women, small children, and babies. These are known facts. To deny them is to deny reality, and truth.
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Everything you say seems reasonable. There seems to be no end to the depravity hamas uses, so choices are limited in dealing with them.

The part I’m struggling with is that Israel as we know it was established in 1948, against the wishes of the people who were already there. It’s like if the UN decided to give part of Texas back to Mexico and let Mexican soldiers kick Texans off their land. That wouldn’t be a peaceful process.

The moral high ground here is murky to me.

Edit to add - and if the moral high ground is murky, there’s a lot less justification for collateral damage.
 
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TAE said:
And Israel knowing they did still chose to attack and kill the innocents.... Well it's the Hamas fault, they chose to endanger those innocents. We had a job to do damnit.
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Yup. Would Israel be attacking now if they hadn't been fired on?

All Axis civilian deaths during WWII including deaths from the atom bombs were squarely on the Axis leaders. Many whine about the bombs being unnecessary - if they saved a single Allied life they were justified.
 
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