GREAT way to get fat drums, fast, with 3 mics...

[Nick The Man]

heyyy heres a sample of what i got ... not too bad but i dont really know what to do from here.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=644522

i want to apologize in advance for my lazy drum playing and my brothers "WOO" halfway through the take

 

[RAMI]

I tried something that I think I like. Those of you who say you don't get enough toms in the overheads might want to try this before going out and buying more mics.

I found that the I was getting too much snare with this configuration (a nice problem to have, I know...). So I used all the same measurements and parameters for this set up, bu instead of measuring from and pointing the mics at the snare, I measured and pointed them at my middle tom instead (I have a 5-piece kit, so 3 toms).

That alone helped alot, but then to add a twist to it. I moved mic stands around until I managed to get the 2 mics equal distance from the middle tom AND the snare, but still pointing at the middle tom.

I found that it tamed my snare just enough, but better than that, now my toms are way more present and a lot wider. If anything, now they might be a little too wide, so I'm narrowing the panning on them so that it doesn't sound like a have 20 foot long arms. I got no phase issues, too. Well, I never did, but.

You might want to try this if you want your overheads to pick up more toms. It takes a bit of moving around, but there's always a way to get the mics equal distance from the tom and the snare equally.

 

[slidey]

I tried something that I think I like. Those of you who say you don't get enough toms in the overheads might want to try this before going out and buying more mics.

I found that the I was getting too much snare with this configuration (a nice problem to have, I know...). So I used all the same measurements and parameters for this set up, bu instead of measuring from and pointing the mics at the snare, I measured and pointed them at my middle tom instead (I have a 5-piece kit, so 3 toms).

That alone helped alot, but then to add a twist to it. I moved mic stands around until I managed to get the 2 mics equal distance from the middle tom AND the snare, but still pointing at the middle tom.

I found that it tamed my snare just enough, but better than that, now my toms are way more present and a lot wider. If anything, now they might be a little too wide, so I'm narrowing the panning on them so that it doesn't sound like a have 20 foot long arms. I got no phase issues, too. Well, I never did, but.

You might want to try this if you want your overheads to pick up more toms. It takes a bit of moving around, but there's always a way to get the mics equal distance from the tom and the snare equally.

when my gig schedule as a drummer is quiet I use my stage kit in the studio which is 6 piece (3 rack & 1 floor)

otherwise it's 1 rack & 2 floors

I'm always looking to get as much in my overheads as possible & I'm always experimenting with placement. I understand you use C1000s for overheads RAMI where I use SE2200a LDCs.

I think for the sake of change & experiment I'll try C1000s as OHs & try setting them up along the lines of what you suggested. I'm assuming you're not using the D/caps???

So keeping the mics pointing at mid tom (5-6 piece setup) & equaling the distance between snare,tom & mics, & taking all measurements from the mid tom instead of snare & see what happens. I, too, take all measurements from the snare & wonder frequently how people manage to get the toms so prominent without close mic'ing

If you had to setup around my alternative kit (1 rack & 2 floors) what would you use for the measurement point??. It pretty much lands on my ride cymbal in that setup....

Hope this made sense?? I'm not quite firing on all cylinders yet

 

[RAMI]

I understand you use C1000s for overheads RAMI I think for the sake of change & experiment I'll try C1000s as OHs & try setting them up along the lines of what you suggested. I'm assuming you're not using the D/caps???

hey Slidey,
yes, I have a pair of C1000s. I sort of have them by default. They were a gift and I've been using them ever since. So I can't say I did any research or comparisons with other mics. I'm happy with them, but to be honest I've read more bad than good about them from others. But I mange to get something out of them. Maybe if I tried another pair I'd realize how much better it can be, but I have nothing to compare them to. And, you're right, I don't use the D-Caps. (What do those things do again? Narrow the directionality of the mic???)

So keeping the mics pointing at mid tom (5-6 piece setup) & equaling the distance between snare,tom & mics, & taking all measurements from the mid tom instead of snare & see what happens.

Actually, no. I might not have explained it well. I measure from the tom first, but then I also measure from the snare. Then I move the mics until the 2 mics are both equal distance from the tom and the snare. So, for example, I managed to get both mics 36" away from the tom, but they were also both 35" inches away from the snare, but pointing at the tom.

If you had to setup around my alternative kit (1 rack & 2 floors) what would you use for the measurement point??. It pretty much lands on my ride cymbal in that setup....

Good question. I really don't know, but I'd start by trying to use the first floor tom (the middle of the three) as your reference. I'm just not sure how that would turn out considering the floor tom is usually pretty far to one side. I guess experimenting is the only answer.

Hope this made sense??

Well, I understood it. So, chances are...it didn't.

 

[slidey]

lmao

QUESTION:- I'm lazy & can't be bothered trawling google, but I've seen mentioned a couple of times now "the recorderman method"

whadaziss do for a man on a mission??

**go on indulge a lazy scot**

 

[RAMI]

I found a flaw in the method I described a few posts up. While it does pick up the toms more, it also picks up less hi hat. It should have been obvious to me, because looking at it, I see that having both mics pointed at the middle tom also makes both mics NOT point to wards the hi hat at all. So I was getting a really loud ride and really low hi hats. Still need more experimentation.

 

[guhlenn]

i got similar results to nick (da man... !!!). And, with all due respect, wouldn;t qualify that as fat drums. where did we go wrong? The 22 mic technique on the other hand worked fine ...

 

[slidey]

i got similar results to nick (da man... !!!). And, with all due respect, wouldn;t qualify that as fat drums. where did we go wrong? The 22 mic technique on the other hand worked fine ...

only 22

 

[RAMI]

i got similar results to nick (da man... !!!). And, with all due respect, wouldn;t qualify that as fat drums. where did we go wrong? The 22 mic technique on the other hand worked fine ...

Well, just because you and Nic got the same (questionable) results, it doesn't mean everyone else has the same problem. There is about 11 pages here of people saying this works for them and does give them fat drums. I'm one of them, so I can vouch for it. I would really love to hear how "good" and "in phase" this 22 mic technique is...hehe.

 

[zacanger]

This works great for me, with a D112 and two Shure BG 4.1s. I'm actually working on a sample pack that was entirely recorded with this technique.

 

[Supercreep]

i got similar results to nick (da man... !!!). And, with all due respect, wouldn;t qualify that as fat drums. where did we go wrong? The 22 mic technique on the other hand worked fine ...

You're definitely doing it wrong, mang.

Cymbals maybe a little less coherent than XY, but overall a very fat sound indeed.

We used it with a heavily compressed room mic, and are very pleased with the results.

 

[slidey]

heavily compressed room mic.

hmmmm I've been doing that of late & reffering to it as "meat in the stew"

 

[guhlenn]

you people missed the sarcasm right? Anyway, i was reffering to a (very nicely done) studio recording i;m mixing. Which is nicely in phase smartass

Don;t take it to seriously, but i really tried the recorderman thing and while it was more then acceptable, it wasn;t great. If you got great results, post em, by all means, i;m curious, not trying to troll here... i found XY to give a more coherent stereo picture. And while the recorder man thing definately picks up more toms, tom mics still have more of the oomph and ofcourse can be more easily processed later on.

 

[RAMI]

And while the recorder man thing definately picks up more toms, tom mics still have more of the oomph and ofcourse can be more easily processed later on.

Actually, if done properly, it will give you more snare than X-Y. Too bad it didn't work for you. I'm curious as to what you're doing wrong. Maybe you're not measuring right.

 

[guhlenn]

More snare then XY? Possibly, although i cn;t quit graps the relation with my post. For snare sound, i find a snare mic really necessary. I use my OH's for vibe and the spot snare mic for the 'crack-smack-whack' (if it has 'ack' in it, it;s good).

Th choice for XY above recorder man method was based on stereo image. Stuff fitted more nicely, the drummer and i agreed...

I tried to listen to clips from people who did get the fat drum sound, but the links i tried were all invalid. Ah well... to each his own ofcourse... although some of you acome acroos a little offended by the fact that it didn;t work for me... which i find kinda strange.

 

[RAMI]

My mentioning that this method brings out more snare than X-Y was in response to you saying this:

And while the recorder man thing definately picks up more toms,

Hope that helps you "graps the relation" with your post.

Nah, nobody's offended. It's your sound. Do what you please with it.

You seem offended that people are suggesting that you might not be doing it correctly. Considering the ratio of people it worked for to people it didn't work for (about 100:1), there's a very good chance that the fault isn't in the method, but in the execution.

 

[guhlenn]

so we misunderstood eachother. Still donlt get what the relation between 'pickign up toms' and 'picking up snare' is, but hey, no problem, might be the translation issue.

Not offended at all btw, rather curious. How do those fat drums sound then?

I love you all. big kisses

 

[slidey]

rather curious. How do those fat drums sound then?

FAT,

at a guess.........................nah my ultimate drum sound & is Led Zeppelin's In My Time Of Dying from Physical Grafitti & as far as I'm aware it was recorded using 2 mics & it's huge

& I think of that hugeness everytime I mix a kit recording. I use 10-16 mics pretty much in every drum recording I do BUT I always start with my overheads (2xSE2200As) & then bring in my solidtube which is anywhere between one foot-3 feet in distance from the kick. I try & get those 3 mics to sound the way I would like to hear the kit & I then invariably use the spot mics to boost/pad out the sound

I always start out with 2-3 mics as my sound

 

[RAMI]

Still donlt get what the relation between 'pickign up toms' and 'picking up snare' is,

That's a shame....But it explains alot. So does thinking that close micing=fat.


By the way I don't neccassarilly consider this technique ALL about getting drums to sound "fatter". I just find it gives more seperation and picks up more snare...But then again, you already said you don't know what that means.



(I think a recording of this technique is only a click away).

 

[guhlenn]

I find your attitude rather uncalled for. But then again, i guess you're getting a real kick out of acting this way . Have it your way. Don;t really care that much.

edit; Slidey; I ofcourse didn;t mean you. I to start out with overheads and rooms, then start to add.