GREAT way to get fat drums, fast, with 3 mics...

[sav3stheday21]

thanks for the info, i'm about to try it with 2 sm57s as overheads and a CAD KBM 412 for the kick. I have a couple shure pg48s could i get any use out of these in this set-up, if so where should I put them in correlation to the OH SM57s? We'll be recording this in my bedroom so the OHs will have to be in as close as I can get them according to what I've read so far.

 

[Freethinker]

I've been using 4 mic only becasue I have two bass drums.
I have a PG52 for each bass drum, each placed just inside the hole in the reso head pointed at the beater, and two PG81's as overheads, this set up is working very well for me roomy but still punchy enough for good definition.

This thread rocks

 

[Russtopher]

thanks for the info, i'm about to try it with 2 sm57s as overheads and a CAD KBM 412 for the kick. I have a couple shure pg48s could i get any use out of these in this set-up, if so where should I put them in correlation to the OH SM57s? We'll be recording this in my bedroom so the OHs will have to be in as close as I can get them according to what I've read so far.

You may have to futz with the placement of the 57s, as using condensers as the OH mics really helps to pick up the whole kit, cymbals included. You might miss some of the higher end freqs with the 57s, but experiment and have fun.

PS I'm in my 30's but STD is one of my favorite bands over the past year

 

[sav3stheday21]

You may have to futz with the placement of the 57s, as using condensers as the OH mics really helps to pick up the whole kit, cymbals included. You might miss some of the higher end freqs with the 57s, but experiment and have fun.

PS I'm in my 30's but STD is one of my favorite bands over the past year

Thanks for your response. Your sentence can be confusing depending on how you look at it. Did you mean using condensers as OH mics helps to pick up the kit as in referring to the 57? I don't know but I'm guessing you know what you're talking about, maybe you made a typo or something. Anyways... you say that I might be missing some of the higher frequencies by using the 57s does this mean I should boost the highs for both the OHs? How much? I could really use any EQ help as this will be my first time actually putting together different tracks versus recording the whole band live on 1 track and then vocals seperately. Thanks

P.S. If you haven't had a chance to check out any of the older STD you really should give Through Being Cool a listen. That cd is my #1 favorite cd of all time.

 

[Russtopher]

Thanks for your response. Your sentence can be confusing depending on how you look at it. Did you mean using condensers as OH mics helps to pick up the kit as in referring to the 57? I don't know but I'm guessing you know what you're talking about, maybe you made a typo or something. Anyways... you say that I might be missing some of the higher frequencies by using the 57s does this mean I should boost the highs for both the OHs? How much? I could really use any EQ help as this will be my first time actually putting together different tracks versus recording the whole band live on 1 track and then vocals seperately. Thanks

P.S. If you haven't had a chance to check out any of the older STD you really should give Through Being Cool a listen. That cd is my #1 favorite cd of all time.

I meant that condensers *usually* pick up both the toms and cymbals very well and give a slightly better representation of their sound. SM57s can give an awesome sound close micd, but due to their frequency response may leave your cymbals feeling dull.

Like I said, experiment with mic placement and take your time, especially if this is your first time. Once things are tracked, fiddle with the EQ until you find a sound you like. If you can't, go back and re-record with different placement. You can always make something "work" with what you have; how you want it to sound it what'll make the difference.

If I had 57s and no condensers, I (personally) would close mic the toms (splitting toms with 1 mic if needed) and then mic the kick and snare. I've done that before to get that big boomy tom sound, and then bring out the cymbals a bit with some high end EQ. It's not the best by any means, but again - it's all about the sound YOU want.

"Through Being Cool" and "Can't Slow Down" are by far and away my favorite records of theirs. I saw them at a bunch of all-ages shows back when TBC had just come out. Over the past year though, since Sound The Alarm was released, I've really gotten back into them again

 

[sav3stheday21]

I do have a condenser which does great for picking up symbols and I usually use it as an overhead directly over the center of the set. Now since I'm using the two 57s that leaves me without another mic stand... If we were to pick one up where would be the best placement for the MK319? We record in my bedroom so the acoustics of the room definitely aren't that hot so I was thinking just put it in low in front of the set and just use it to add some life to the cymbols.

Another thing that ran through my mind yesterday was using one of these PG48s we have laying around to mic the beater side of the kick along with the cad that sits just inside the hole on the other side of the kick drum. I've never mic'ed the beater side before. Does anyone have any tips on placement or EQ? Thanks.

 

[Yareek]

Bump.

I didn't really like the concept of the Recorderman method...always liked ORTF because it gives such a great stereo image of the cymbals and you can blend that with close mics to taste. Of course, it captures pretty much cymbals alone with a bit of drums so my OH were always down -6 to -10 dB from the rest of the pack. And with my SDC's, they always sounded plinky and harsh with my crap room.

So over the last week I was screwing around with this technique and found I actually really liked the results. WAY more drum sound but the cymbals were still there. And it sounded a lot less like a plinky/harsh cymbal sound and more like what I was hearing in the room. Toms were full and had sustain instead of papery and whimpy.

Granted I've been playing for 13 years and have probably $4k in custom drums and cymbals, but I'm really happy with this sound...it's like a Bonham-meets-modern sound. Bring in a mic pointing at the snare shell from several inches away and a kick mic pulled just outside the hole of the kick and I've got pretty much all I wanted out of half as many tracks. The best is that instead of spending 15 hours EQ'ing and gating and compressing and mixing all the drum tracks, I spend maybe an hour playing around with compression and EQ and reverb and I'm set. So it really speeds up the creative process.

So in short a friendly bump for a slick technique that I overlooked for five years.

 

[Berberman]

Thanks to this thread i tried the recorderman's technique after experimenting with the XY method, and it gave great results. Here is a pic of the setup as it is now. I still have some tweaking to do.

Here's my setup:

2x mxl 991 overheads
1x sm58 on snare
1x beta 52 bass drum
Presonus firepod
Macbook Pro 2.33 - 1 gig ram
1x Novation ReMOTE 25 LE USB MIDI Controller

I also have a pair of mxl 990s i have to experiment with on the toms and snare...

 

[brodgind]

Not so easy with better mics

I tried this at my studio this weekend with mixed results. First I tried it as most posters had with crappy mics, 57's, 58's, for the overheads and kick. Not bad. I was impressed. Good stereo image, nice balance, just enough room for most rock/punk bands that I record, although, it was a little dull, and I had a hard time with the snare. Started adding mics, and yes, everything is in phase, but the overheads were quickly Lost with the cleaner 418's on the tom fills. Next, I tried SM81's for overheads. Much better, would be great for most demo bands. Next a pair of 4050's in all patterns. Cardio was best, omni had some interesting snare sounds, although overall to boomy, and Fig-8 had great room sound while maintaing that stereo image. When I achieved the best I could in 2 hours time, I switched to X/Y. Less toms, but once dialed in, hard to beat with the 4050's. Mid-Side? Best image so far, but not as balanced as the Double Stick Technique, or DS, as I like to call it. I always used a pair of 57's on the snare, an RE20 on the kick, about a foot away, with an EV 480 on front for attack, 81's for the ride and HH, and AKG418's for the toms.

 

[Snazzy Q]

I record in a huge street sweeper garage with fiberglass insulation so I can't wait to try this

 

[SMC Productions]

I record in a huge street sweeper garage

Well, that's a 'first'!

 

[MrKwik]

I record in a huge street sweeper garage with fiberglass insulation so I can't wait to try this

I work on street sweepers for a living. Thats just weird.

eneeway...I have a question about micing toms with this technique. I have a pair of MXL 990's for overheads, a 57 on snare and a Shure PG52 in the kick. Overall this is the best setup I have found for my absolutely shit room. My only complaint is that I would like a little more tom in the mix. Problem is that I have 5 toms and only 4 extra channels. I have 3 SM57 knockoffs that I tried sticking between each pair of rack toms and then one on the floor tom but it didnt work all that well. I was wondering what would happen if I put a pair of sd condensors in the same spot between each pair of toms? My thinking is that they would be less directional since but Im also thinking that they would pick up too much of the cymbals that are right above them? And then I dont know if they can handle the db's in a close mic situation....Thoughts?

 

[RAMI]

I work on street sweepers for a living. Thats just weird.

eneeway...I have a question about micing toms with this technique. I have a pair of MXL 990's for overheads, a 57 on snare and a Shure PG52 in the kick. Overall this is the best setup I have found for my absolutely shit room. My only complaint is that I would like a little more tom in the mix. Problem is that I have 5 toms and only 4 extra channels. I have 3 SM57 knockoffs that I tried sticking between each pair of rack toms and then one on the floor tom but it didnt work all that well. I was wondering what would happen if I put a pair of sd condensors in the same spot between each pair of toms? My thinking is that they would be less directional since but Im also thinking that they would pick up too much of the cymbals that are right above them? And then I dont know if they can handle the db's in a close mic situation....Thoughts?

Why don't you try this technique first with just the 4 mics? You'd be surprised how much the overheads pick up in this configuration. Try it first and then add mics to taste is what I would suggest.

 

[scrubs]

I work on street sweepers for a living. Thats just weird.

eneeway...I have a question about micing toms with this technique. I have a pair of MXL 990's for overheads, a 57 on snare and a Shure PG52 in the kick. Overall this is the best setup I have found for my absolutely shit room. My only complaint is that I would like a little more tom in the mix. Problem is that I have 5 toms and only 4 extra channels. I have 3 SM57 knockoffs that I tried sticking between each pair of rack toms and then one on the floor tom but it didnt work all that well. I was wondering what would happen if I put a pair of sd condensors in the same spot between each pair of toms? My thinking is that they would be less directional since but Im also thinking that they would pick up too much of the cymbals that are right above them? And then I dont know if they can handle the db's in a close mic situation....Thoughts?

Try angling the overhead mics more towards the toms.

 

[MrKwik]

Why don't you try this technique first with just the 4 mics? You'd be surprised how much the overheads pick up in this configuration. Try it first and then add mics to taste is what I would suggest.

I have been trying it for a while now with just the overheads, kick and snare. I could almost lose the snare mic because it gets picked up pretty well, but the toms are just lacking. I removed a couple toms from my kit and then close miced the remaining ones and that is definately what it needs. I just need to figure out how to mic 5 toms with 4 mic channels.

 

[RAMI]

I have been trying it for a while now with just the overheads, kick and snare. I could almost lose the snare mic because it gets picked up pretty well,

Sorry, didn't catch that the first time. You're right about the snare though. It really comes through in the overheads with this set up.

 

[Obi-Wan zenabI]

great for low ceiling studio

Went from XY overhead (w/ fiberglass directly over the mics) to recorderman set up. Huge difference.

If you have a low ceiling like I do (7'2") then this is great.

I only used overheads (gretsch jazz kit, 18" BD, one tom, one 18" crash/ride, brushes) and tried to get the over the shoulder mic low so that the drummer's head came between it and the hi hats.

 

[Nick The Man]

i think im doing something wrong here ... here is some pictures i took.

 

[RAMI]

i think im doing something wrong here ... here is some pictures i took.

Are you sure those 2 mics are the same distance from the snare??? It's hard to tell from the pix, but it seems that one is way further away than the other.

 

[Nick The Man]

yeah my bad i just re read the first post carefully and i noticed my problem thanks