GREAT way to get fat drums, fast, with 3 mics...

jamesduysen said:
AHAHAH!!!! I am saved from the x/y setup! These drums sound amazing!...I am not going to show you...because...I don't play drums...but trust me this is the way to try if youre sick of thin drums...

If you are confused about the setup...here is a video:

recorderman

I used a 57 top snare 58 undersnare, beta52 kick and two mxl 993s for the oh's

NICE!
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Excelent video, really tied it up for me. Now to give it a try...
 
Hopefully this will make my kit sing in the mix.

Mics I'm going to use:

2 sm81's for OH
sm57 and beta57 on snare (over/under)
Beta52a kick
*maybe* MXL 993/604 for hats (may not use if OH's are decent)

......and my personal fav

Nady RSM-4 ribbon mic about 5 feet back at about tom level capturing more room sound then anything.

You guys think I'll get good results?
 
did this tonight with:

2x Sampson CO2 overheads
1x sm57 snare
1x sampson Qkick
1x SP B1 about 4 feet from the kit at tom height

great sound! sounded MASSIVE and had a great overall balance

I'll see about posting a sample soon
 
This sucks. My kit is WAY too big for this setup I just realized. Weighing in at 10 cymbals (completely symmetrical) and me being left hand open style, I'd be whacking the left mic to no end...Has anybody ever tried 3 drumsticks or maybe 4 the same way...and just boost the gain? My room doesn't sound THAT bad enough, cause it couldn't get any worse than physically hitting my sm81's ya dig? I'll take some pics and try a similar setup on my big kit, and see what I come up with...
 
RAMI said:
Hehe......ok.

I'm sure you can use whatever distance you want. It doesn't have to be 2 drumsticks.
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Correct... obviously the further away from the kit you get, the more room sound you get on the recording. If you're in a decent room, you can be OK. As long as you check distance and spacing each step of the way, you'll be OK, you just may end up with a bit less punch depending on your room.

I wouldn't give up on this method yet - I used it with a metal drummer with at least 10 crash cymbals, 2 rides, 2 hats, 4 chinese cymbals, a saw blade, etc. and I was just constantly on him to remind him not to flail his arms everywhere. The recording came out great, and I think he hit the left side boom once. So it can definitely be done, believe me :)
 
Yeah, it seems the 2 drum sticks is a little on the short side. When I'm recording a drummer, it's definately closer to 3, or the drummer gets paranoid about the mic learing over his right shoulder and starts to whack at it with a stick. Damn dirty apes.....
 
For what it's worth, I never measure with drumsticks. I take a measuring tape and do 36". No reason other than that's what I came up with that seems to sound good.
 
andyhix said:
Yeah, it seems the 2 drum sticks is a little on the short side. When I'm recording a drummer, it's definately closer to 3, or the drummer gets paranoid about the mic learing over his right shoulder and starts to whack at it with a stick. Damn dirty apes.....
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hahaha!! What's the difference between a garden bench and a drummer?










A garden bench can support a family of four

Sorry drummers, you know we love you!
 
RAMI said:
For what it's worth, I never measure with drumsticks. I take a measuring tape and do 36". No reason other than that's what I came up with that seems to sound good.
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Whatever your method, you have some great sounding drums....:cool:
 
I'm going to record some tracks when the equipment gets here at ~6pm, and you guys can tell me how it sounds... I think I'm gonna try between 36" and 48"...
 
read the whole thread...whew, good stuff (sticky by all means) I have a session this Saturday, have recorded the band before, just a demo CD and I'm going to try this set-up, probably the 36" method first (large drummer)....does any one know the exact length of a drummers stick, 12",14, 15 1/2"?? nOW i'M GOING TO MEASURE A STICK HUMM... NOT STICKY. :D

I'll be using 2 C4's, Beta 52, SM57, and a I5 (FT control) I usually use 8 mics close miced on all drums, o/h basically for cymbals so this will be a good (paid) experiment. Thanks tubeguy, and all the rest of you drummers.
 
WOW. I just tried this method for the first time today and my drums have never sounded better, especially my toms. I've been aware of this method for a while but never tried it because i play metal and wanted to close mic all the toms and everything for control. I ended up muting the tom tracks this way because they have more body and attack then I ever achieved with close micing (but that's probably just because I barely messed with tom mic placement). Anyways, I'm definitely using the recorderman method from now on. The stereo field is perfect and I need less mics this way. I used an Audix D6 in the kick, NT5's for overheads, sm57 on the snare top and a modded 57 underneath. I end up turning down the top 57 quite a ways because the OH's pick it up so well.
 
By the way, I started using a variation on the Recorderman method recently. Glyn Johns: http://www.blaxploitation.com/drums/

Notice the second mic over on the floor tom side as opposed to right over the drummer's shoulder. I find this gives me even better seperation in my cymbals and toms.
 
andyhix said:
Yeah, it seems the 2 drum sticks is a little on the short side. When I'm recording a drummer, it's definately closer to 3, or the drummer gets paranoid about the mic learing over his right shoulder and starts to whack at it with a stick. Damn dirty apes.....
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That happened to me today :( I hit them a couple of times, I realiced becouse the windscreen fall down after a couple hits :P at least they were my behringer C2 and not my Rode NT5. I will try 3 drumsticks, it seems waaaay safer, at least for us amateur drummers.
And yes, it is great! Here I used it as you can see. After I made that video I bought 3 Behringer XM8500 which now I am using as reinforcements for the toms, a sm58 for the kick and a sm57 for the snare, my next reinforcement will be below the snare.
 
RAMI said:
By the way, I started using a variation on the Recorderman method recently. Glyn Johns: http://www.blaxploitation.com/drums/

Notice the second mic over on the floor tom side as opposed to right over the drummer's shoulder. I find this gives me even better seperation in my cymbals and toms.
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Glad to hear it worked out for you, I downloaded the .pdf of it a few weeks back too, but haven't had a chance to try it out yet.

I recently picked up an inexpensive drum mic kit because the Recorderman method doesn't sound so hot in the only room I can record drums in now that we've moved. Of course, close micing without any overheads has it's own cons, so I can't wait to try the Glyn Johns method and see if I can get a little closer to the kit to help eliminate some of the bad room sound. I bet it'll still sound better than the close micing I recently did.
 
tubedude said:
This isnt mine, I wish it were, but I've been experimenting, and lemmee tell ya, the cymbals are there just right, everything is nice.
2 overheads and a kick... I rarely even LOOK in this forum, but this deserves a look by everyone that might be interested...
heres the method, copied from someplace else... Credits to RECORDERMAN...

here's my trick. It's fast and it works perfect every time.
1. Place the "Left" overhead mic directly over the center of the snare at the hieght of two drum sticks-held end-to-end(from the center of the snare, straight up, to the capsule of the mic).
2. Next; take the drum sticks (still held end-to-end) from the center of the snare over to above your ( i.e." the drummers") right shoulder and place your "right" overhead mic here.
3. Fine tune the placement by using a mic cable and measurinb the distance from the center of the Kick to each of these mics is also equidistant from the kick and snare.
4. listen with headphones and have the drummer lightly hit his kick drum, and adjust the "right" mics angle until the kick is in the middle of your "image".

What this has done is:
1. Place the snare & the kick in the center when you pan these mics hard left and right.
2. Place the overheads in a position which is in-phase with the kick,snare and overheads.
3. balanced the over heads so that the Rack and floor Toms (as well as all cymbals) are correctly ballanced.

this is actually a great "picture" of the kit at this point. maybe a hair of Top end (depending on what mics your using) and a little this, and a Kick mic. BUT whatever you add (snare mics, toms, etc) you'll now be inphase. This also makes your snare & toms louder inrelation to the cymbals & is more of a true OH mic set-up (Not just "cymbal" mic's )

It may look weird but try it...it trulelly ROCKS
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+1 Good post and exactly how I do it if I have a limited number of mics

it is best to mic every piece but not everyone has that option.
 
I'm going to try this tonight although i know i'm gonna run into a problem..


see our new drummer is a bit of an oddball.. he plays left handed but sets up the same as a right handed.. only ride is on the same side as the hats.. he can play the other way but this how he prefers his set up. makes for some wierd balance issues
 
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