david hooper reply

Re: Re: whoa david!!!

David Hooper said:
Nobody was attaking you either.

I'm simply stating facts and asking you to back up what you're claiming about promises not being kept. Funny how you guys can throw it out, but can't take it.


ya know what, i don't want to talk about this anymore... it's stupid, and you aren't getting the point of my posts.
here's the botom line: i don't care about you, or how you conduct your business elsewhere. i just feel that it is uncool to hawk your wares on this bbs. i searched all your posts here, and 90% of them are thinly veiled promotion for your company. i don't want to argue about it, it is my viewpoint, and that's all. most of them have no replies at all, and many of them have people basically telling you the same thing i am... it seems like spam, and it sets a bad precedence for this site. i am not saying your company doesn't do what it says you will do, or that it isn't a good deal or whatever. i am simply saying for the last time, that i don't think you should do it here. that's just my opinion, but i think that there are obviously others who feel the same way.
good luck with your company... i'm just tired of hearing about it here.
peace - jv
 
Re: Re: Re: whoa david!!!

johneeeveee said:
good luck with your company... i'm just tired of hearing about it here.

Why don't you put me on your ignore list?

Hit "profile" below and then choose "Add David Hooper to Your Ignore List ."

Bob, this will work for you as well.
 
Re: whoa david!!!

David Hooper said:
Why don't you put me on your ignore list?

Hit "profile" below and then choose "Add David Hooper to Your Ignore List ."

Bob, this will work for you as well.

... i will ignore you, but please just answer one question for me (you obviously only read and quote things from my posts that you appeal to you).
do you honestly think it's totally ok for you to use this forum to promote your company? others don't do it, why should you be able to without getting called on it?
i think your selfishness is a drag, and i just wish you would help out here without hawking your site... just for the sake of helping out newbies in this tough business.
here's what it says on the heading for this forum:
"Talk about what you're doing, what works, and what doesn't!"
it doesn't add, "and get people to your site to pay you to find out what works and what doesn't".
for the last time... and try to grasp this PLEASE... i'm not criticizing your company, or questioning whether you do a good job or not. i just think you are sleazy for advertising for your company on a site created for the FREE exchange of information between musicians and engineers. that's all. if you can't understand that, i'm sorry for your deficiency. get a clue.
with that, go ahead and blather on about your site, copy and paste whatever parts of my posts suit you, and discuss it ad nauseum. i'm done talking to you. go ahead and have the last word, and the next hundred for all i care. i would rather spend my time on more productive topics.
peace - jv
 
"Why don't you put me on your ignore list?

Hit "profile" below and then choose "Add David Hooper to Your Ignore List ."

Bob, this will work for you as well."



Sorry, Dave. You're just too darned much fun! Although lately, you're not really living up to your best work, as evidenced in this thread:



http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71910



You wanted publicity, right?:D




BBS
Assistant Manager- Shoe Rental
Roswell Bowl
Roswell, NM.
 
Re: Re: Re: whoa david!!!

David Hooper said:
Link the posts that you're referring to.

David,
I really don't mean to sling mud, but I can see where they are coming from in calling you a spammer. Some of the posts you make seem to contain the same kind of rhetoric you see in an ad for a time-share sales company, or maybe Amway. "I have a special offer I'm extening to you for free, just call today and mention promo code #..." In my humble opinion, a number of your posts have that "processed meat" smell:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=110540

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=107423

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=108553

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=103679

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=101057

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=100849
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: whoa david!!!

ChristopherM said:
David,
I really don't mean to sling mud, but I can see where they are coming from in calling you a spammer. Some of the posts you make seem to contain the same kind of rhetoric you see in an ad for a time-share sales company, or maybe Amway. "I have a special offer I'm extening to you for free, just call today and mention promo code #..." In my humble opinion, a number of your posts have that "processed meat" smell:

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=110540

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=107423

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=108553

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=103679

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=101057

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=100849

... thank you chris. i started off very level headed about discussing this topic, but got so frustrated i admit to slingin' a bit of that mud, which probably wasn't cool. david, if you're out there, i apologize for feeling attacked and lashing out. i don't want to get back into it with you. let's just agree to disagree... cool?
here's the thing fella's... i know that certain sales tactics are probably very effective for all kinds of products, and i find some of them distasteful, and "cheesy". when these "infomercialesque" pitches are attached to music, regardless of effectiveness, it hurts me on a core level as an artist. once again, that's just me.
i admit to being one of those hardcore artfucks who is pretty serious about no compromises when it comes to music, including the way it is presented to music fans. i admit, this approach has probably lost me a bit of a wider general audience, but gained me a unbelievably loyal subculture of fans who expect no less. i just want to put my experience out there so kids know that there are different kinds of success, and this seems like a great place to swap diy networking ideas. i welcome any and all ideas on this forum from independent artists out there fightin' the good fight.
peace - jv
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: whoa david!!!

ChristopherM said:
I really don't mean to sling mud, but I can see where they are coming from in calling you a spammer.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=110540

Free conference call. You guys keep asking for info...and the word free is always mentioned. What's the problem?

ChristopherM said:

Another freebie.

ChristopherM said:

Post asking for your opinion.

ChristopherM said:

Another free conference call...and it was seven hours long.

ChristopherM said:

Service of use to people in the Hip-Hop/Beat forum.

Notice that, as of 1/23 at 9:30pm Central, nobody has complained...

ChristopherM said:

Same conference call as above.

Again, you guys keep asking for freebies and I gave you one. We answered every question that came in.

What's the problem? Be specific.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: whoa david!!!

David Hooper said:

What's the problem? Be specific.

okay, david. i reeeeaaaally am tired of all this, but i will try to explain what i think is going on here if it helps put an end to this nonsense.
from what i can gather, and from my own opinion, the tone of your posts seem like efforts to drum up business for your company. that is the way certain people view them, and that's all there is to say. to keep defending yourself like this is a waste of time for everyone, and i find it hard to believe that you don't understand why you've come under criticism.
so you do whatever you need to do... post away. i will simply ignore you, because i personally think that you are kind of sneaky, and you actually enjoy the flames cuz it gives you more airtime on this board, and an excuse to draw attention to your site.
i would suggest that those of you out there that don't dig his style of promotion, simply ignore him as well. it doesn't seem like there are too many responses to his threads other than accusations of spamming, anyway.
as i said before, (and tried in vain to do), i don't wish to speak about your company or your posts anymore. i will however welcome a thread on ethics in the promotion of music in today's industry, which i think is a valid topic. if you think you could post valuable info without it being about your company, i would be happy to discuss this topic with you in an appropriate venue.
peace - jv
 
Well as the 4000+ thread ( Indibiz & Taxi )
reads you can see my story. I paid for a year tried to get my money back the same day .......no way. I think Dave has much to offer but bottom line the web site is bogus.
 
agreed...

pashop said:
Well as the 4000+ thread ( Indibiz & Taxi )
reads you can see my story. I paid for a year tried to get my money back the same day .......no way. I think Dave has much to offer but bottom line the web site is bogus.

... sorry to hear your woes with taxi. i agree that david hooper and some of these other consultants out there probably know much about this industry. i, too, just have a problem with the presentation and overall vibe. well, different strokes and all that, ya know?
thankfully, much can be done by artists to learn what they need to know with a library card, online reseach, and probably most important of all, by getting out there and doing it in the real world.
peace - jv
 
pashop said:
Well as the 4000+ thread ( Indibiz & Taxi )
reads you can see my story. I paid for a year tried to get my money back the same day .......no way. I think Dave has much to offer but bottom line the web site is bogus.

Gee...and I thought you and I had made nice-nice and were friends consindering I'm the only guy who doesn't give you shit on www.velvetrope.com.

If you guys want to see what the real industry thinks of me, go there.

But on here, let's see...

Bob thinks I spam.
PAShop thinks the web site is bogus.
John doesn't like my marketing and has to mention it in every reply.

Anybody else have a problem?
 
truce

David Hooper said:
Gee...and I thought you and I had made nice-nice and were friends consindering I'm the only guy who doesn't give you shit on www.velvetrope.com.

If you guys want to see what the real industry thinks of me, go there.

But on here, let's see...

Bob thinks I spam.
PAShop thinks the web site is bogus.
John doesn't like my marketing and has to mention it in every reply.

Anybody else have a problem?

... i would like to put an end to this. i'm not sure why your posts seem to get to me. i am usually a very mellow guy who doesn't sweat the small shit. i guess i just felt like you weren't getting my point, and the truth is, you don't have to. i'm sorry things got heated. we are just two guys trying to do what we feel is good work in this crazy business. i'm sure we would probably agree on quite a bit. hell, if derek at cd baby says you know what you're doing, you must be doing something right... that guy works harder than anyone i can think of.
so, i offer this truce. i will back off on my opinion, and all i ask is that you at least consider what is at the core of some of these flames considering spam and self promotion. we will probably never see eye to eye on this, and that's ok... one view no more valid than the other. no need to defend yourself with me any more, as i won't mention this again. feel free to correspond with me on this forum if you like, with no worries. cool?
i wish you the best with your endeavors - jv
 
" i would like to put an end to this. i'm not sure why your posts seem to get to me. i am usually a very mellow guy who doesn't sweat the small shit. i guess i just felt like you weren't getting my point, and the truth is, you don't have to. i'm sorry things got heated. we are just two guys trying to do what we feel is good work in this crazy business. i'm sure we would probably agree on quite a bit. hell, if derek at cd baby says you know what you're doing, you must be doing something right... that guy works harder than anyone i can think of.
so, i offer this truce. i will back off on my opinion, and all i ask is that you at least consider what is at the core of some of these flames considering spam and self promotion. we will probably never see eye to eye on this, and that's ok... one view no more valid than the other. no need to defend yourself with me any more, as i won't mention this again. feel free to correspond with me on this forum if you like, with no worries. cool?
i wish you the best with your endeavors - jv"




AND THE "REPLY'?????




"Didn't you put me on your ignore list?

Resist the temptation to reply to this message."


Every time you open your mouth you show what a classless little puke you are, Hooper. Here is johneeeveee (a working musician) trying to be civil to you, and what do you do? You tell him to fuck off.

Nice.


Par for your course, I'd say.:D
 
David Hooper said:
Didn't you put me on your ignore list?

Resist the temptation to reply to this message.

... it was just my attempt to apologize for getting on my soapbox, and to try to make peace. i'm sorry you're not down with that.
- jv
 
Re: Re: Re: david hooper reply

David Hooper said:
Don't knock the sales copy. It's there because it works. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

And by the way, I do what I promise I'll do. Go to www.indiebiz.com and read it. If you want, sign up.

Don't like it? Take advantage of the guarantee.



Go to www.indiebiz.com and tell me what I am promising that I can't deliver on.

After reading and re-reading much of what goes on in these "debate" threads (many of which are targeted at Dave) I'm getting the definite impression that nearly everyone involved (on BOTH sides) aren't taking what is being said in the proper context... To be completely fair, I think you missed the point to Johneeevee's quote:

Originally posted by johneeeveee
... welcome to the music industry. actually, david seems rather harmless compared to a lot of the corporate music folks i've met over the years. i think his company probably actually tries to do what it says, and i just have a problem with the sales pitch on his site (a little on the late night infomercial vibe for my taste).

OK he didn't like your sales copy... but take it at face value, his overall point in this particular quote was "david seems rather harmless compared to a lot of the corporate music folks i've met over the years. i think his company probably actually tries to do what it says" This is clearly a compliment... although "seems rather harmless" could have been written more tactful... but it seems Johneevee believes you to be sincere in your efforts to help musicians....

As for the next part:

johneeeveee said:
unrealistic expectations are part of the problem, on both sides of this fence. be wary of anyone promising you anything, and do as much as you can on your own, networking with other independent artists with the same goals. those overnight successes usually take over 10 years

Again... the key words to watch for are "be wary of anyone promising" again: "anyone"... this statement wasn't directed at you or your company... it was a general statement.

Personally (and if you refer to the PM I sent you you'll see where I'm comming from) I like the fact that you're keeping people informed of events that they might not know about. And if the price for getting that kind of info is the occasional reference to your site and its services, then I'm ok with that... so long as there's some good info in the post that someone can use.

One thing I've learned over the years dealing with musicians is they (we?) live in a world of metaphores... nearly everything we read can be taken out of context easily... and much of the time we do (I know I've been guilty of it).

Personally, having been in the IT industry for 13+yrs, I understand that a LOT of people out there are not particularly good at using web search utilities effectively. One of my friends comes to mind: If I were to ask her to get me specific info on the music intustry online... even if it was as simple as current copyright procedures... she couldn't do it.

The point? (which I'm sure you're all waiting for) I know lots of musicians who's never even sat in front of a computer before. If one of them decided he needed info on how to do something in the music industry he/she wouldn't have a clue where to start online.

Q Is the info on David's site available in various places on the web for free?

A Yes (According to general concencus here)

Q Is the info on Davids site completely useless (in general)?

A No... if it were then no-one here would be pointing out other resouces for the info and debating the fact that he's selling you can get for free. Furthermore: If the infor was completely useless it wouldn't exist on the web at all... if noone needs it why post it?

Q Who would ever consider paying for info like that when (with a "little" research) you can get it for free?

A Anyone who:
(A) Is not proficient with web searching and
(B) Are not in a position to launch a 2-3-4-5 or 6 month research project to get info they need NOW... the internet is a wonerful place to gather info. For people like me. it's easy to traverse... for other's it's a Rubics Cube...

Q Would Tanlith use David's service?

A Not likely since I know how to find what I need on the info... but I respect the fact that he's providing a service to those who don't have the time (or skill) to hunt down that info on their own.

And in conclusion I for one appreciate the various events that David has announced here (He's posted many WITHOUT ever even mentioning his business or website.

example:
Call me today and let's talk music management and artist development.

Personally I think it would have been cool to call (had I known about it on time I probably would have - next time more notice Dave! :D )

So please just leave him the hell alone!

I'm tired of having to weed through these debates to find good info (and yes many times there's interesting and useful info amidst the flaming)... I don't know the Webster's dictionairy definition on "Spam" as it pertains to the internet, but to me it's when there's too much shit to wade through to get to the gold nuggets...

So please people can we just LET IT GO?

- Tanlith -
 
tanlith,

... in hindsight, i realized that daves posts just somehow struck a nerve in me, and i apologized for getting heated over something that wasn't warranted. i summed up my thoughts here and tried to make peace:

" i would like to put an end to this. i'm not sure why your posts seem to get to me. i am usually a very mellow guy who doesn't sweat the small shit. i guess i just felt like you weren't getting my point, and the truth is, you don't have to. i'm sorry things got heated. we are just two guys trying to do what we feel is good work in this crazy business. i'm sure we would probably agree on quite a bit. hell, if derek at cd baby says you know what you're doing, you must be doing something right... that guy works harder than anyone i can think of.
so, i offer this truce. i will back off on my opinion, and all i ask is that you at least consider what is at the core of some of these flames considering spam and self promotion. we will probably never see eye to eye on this, and that's ok... one view no more valid than the other. no need to defend yourself with me any more, as i won't mention this again. feel free to correspond with me on this forum if you like, with no worries. cool?
i wish you the best with your endeavors - jv"

... i, too, see this as a valuable forum, and i'm embarassed a bit that i took up anyone's time with these posts. it was wrong of me to decide it was my place to spout my views on ethics in the industry, and use david as a target. i'm not sure how i got carried away (it's very unlike me), and i've tried to make things right.
once again, i'm sorry you had to wade through this stuff, and i have apologized to david for judging him. i will continue to share info, and help out where i can, and spend my time on more positive things.
peace (sincerely) - jv
 
Johneeeveee:

:) My rant wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It was more or less a plea to (certain people) leave David the hell alone. Everywhere I look lately there's a message posted by him saying "Hey you might want to check this out it could be interesting to some of you" followed by 30-100 messages screaming at him for posting. Then there seems to be some twisted need to start referring to post from other threads that are completely unrelated to the original post... it kinda gets completely away from why we're (supposed to be) here for in the first place. :p :p

I look at it this way:

If the post was inappropriate then the moderator would have deleted it. It's not my BBS so who the hell am I to say what's appropriate or not? If I felt the moderator might have missed something then I'd drop him/her a note pointing it out. Beyond that I let it be.

I just feel bad for David... he's just trying to defend his business' reputation. Much like any one of us would if we had an unhappy customer.

I had a cellular carrier that was, for some unknown reason, incapable of keeping my invoicing straight for my business... they ended up costing me around $12,000 in lost revenue because of incompetence (Which I did get back in court). Yet that company has thousands of very happy customers today.

The point? OK A few people here have had bad experiences with David. That doesn't negate his skill, knowledge or abilities to do what he does.

Now on the other hand.....

David:

I've read some of your responses to these attacks on your business and I have to say that although I can see you're trying to maintain a certain level of composure, on several occasions you stepped over that fine line and left profesionalism far behind. It's understandable that you feel passionate about your business and you probably feel personally attacked when someone says something like "to all young, old, or unsigned musicians. dont send ant of these leaches like david any money period!" -- So the guy didn't get what he expected from your site/service. What was it that he expected to get? Noone knows cause he hasn't posted specifics of what it was he thought you were going to do for him.

If there's something that these people (for whatever reason) think they should be getting from your site/service, maybe you should first try to determine exactly what that something is... then try to find out what (if anything) in your sales copy is being misinterpreted.

However, I have a feeling that much of this could very well be the result of this "instant gratification" world we now live in. You need something? *CLICK* got it. Heard a good song on the radio on the way home from work? *CLICK* got it on my HD in MP3. Microsoft has a cool new flight sim out? *CLICK* Got it from Kazaa!!

Many of the people I deal with day to day seem to have lost the whole concept that some things take time and effort. I want a music career! *CLICK* "Son of a bitch!!! Don't give this guy any of your money!!! It's a scam!!!"

-------------------------------------------------------
Now before I get beat up, I'm NOT saying this applies to anyone here... that's really up to you to decide if it applies to you.
-------------------------------------------------------

I really don't know what you expect David to do... or any other service for that matter. From what I gather (And feel free to correct me... politely!) he's offering information that could otherwise take a significant ammount of time to gather online (Again... depending on your skill) -- I get the impression from some of the comments I see tossed like grenades at David and his business that you seem to expect him to make you a star.

"OK Dave... here's my $77.00 USD now get me a booking at the Palace of Aubourn Hills, Michigan." I got a better idea... why don't I take $150,000 of my own money and finance someone's career? You know pay for transportation/booking fees/equipment rental/studio time etc... all on the possibility that you might be able to generate enough public interest to earn that money back for me and then some.

Sure you worked hard writing and recording all that music you make (And believe me I have heard some amazing music come out of this BBS.) But no matter how much I like it or believe it should be the next #1 hit, there's no way in hell I would put my time, money or reputation on the line to back anyone here. And I doubt that any record label out there would. Why? Because if they spent any time getting back ground info on any of you (and you know who you are) or found out about you from this BBS then they wouldn't want to be bothered with the hastle of dealing with you... they're record producers... not baby-sitters.

So please can someone tell me exactly what it is that David has done? What is it that you all think it is he's selling... then tell me why or how you got that impression???? If you can't be specific as to what the hell he's done, said or promissed that he didn't come through with than by all means people shut the fuck up!

My kids are better behaved than many of the people here "He took my crayon!!!! MOM!!!!!"

- Tanlith -


P.S. -- If at any time you got the impression I was just yelling or pissed off... let me set the record straight... I was smiling and chuckling to myself the whole time I was typing all this up.

P.S.S. -- "Stress and worry are like a rocking chair.... they'll keep you busy, but they won't get you anywhere!"
 
"It was more or less a plea to (certain people) leave David the hell alone"

"shut the fuck up!"



Will do. I leave you with David. This is my final post on HomeRec.
So long.





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