zoom r8 question

[s.mouse]

i have been recording guitar from my amp directly into the zoom by running a cable from the amps extension speaker jack to the zoom. i prefer this to a mic , i dont have to worry about outside noise,my kids making a racket etc . it works great only problem i have is even with the levels set at there lowest on the zoom , the slightest increase in gain or volume will create peak levels in the zoom the red light blinks on every strum... will a DI or audio interface fix this and let me control levels better ? i want to be able to run the amp at abit of volume .any help or advice greatly appreciated cheers steve

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I would be a little worried that an amp's output might damage the input on your recorder. Keeping the amp low to avoid excessive level has probably prevented that.

A DI with a 30-40dB pad should let you connect the speaker output to the recorder.

Is there some sort of line out on the amp? What amp do you have? A tube amp might not like running without a speaker.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

There are some DIs that are sold, and I’m guessing designed, specifically for amp/speaker input. The Radial JDX 48 is one that is solely for that kind of application. Googling around I found a Countryman 85 which is switchable. (Good reviews but my quick read didn’t see any from folks that were using it that way.)

 

[s.mouse]

thanks guys, i went and got a DI box with a 0-40 db pan , wow what a difference it cleaned the signal right up and the guitar etc is sounding sooo smooth compared to what i was getting before. one weird thing is i ran a TRS cable from the amp to the DI box and it seemed to massively increase the signal /volume again . the R8 was getting hammered again on nil levels.. .once i changed it back to a TR cable it was all good again. i didn't realize a cable could make such a difference , i guess ya learn something every day. thanks again for your help

 

[ecc83]

thanks guys, i went and got a DI box with a 0-40 db pan , wow what a difference it cleaned the signal right up and the guitar etc is sounding sooo smooth compared to what i was getting before. one weird thing is i ran a TRS cable from the amp to the DI box and it seemed to massively increase the signal /volume again . the R8 was getting hammered again on nil levels.. .once i changed it back to a TR cable it was all good again. i didn't realize a cable could make such a difference , i guess ya learn something every day. thanks again for your help

The "cable" did n't make the difference. A TRS is a different connection regime from TS. Sometimes make no difference, sometimes won't work at all. "Ya learned" a slightly wrong thing.

BSG's warning fell on deaf ears? If that is a valve amp it MUST be loaded to around + or - 50% of the load it is set for. You are getting away with things because I suspect the levels involved are still low but, trust us, one day you will open the taps and blow the valve(s) and possibly the output transformer.

Even some transistor amps don't like "no load" and tend to sound better with the right one anyway and don't FFS short it! A 100 watt chassis mount load resistor in a tin will cost you less than the DI box I'm betting and COULD save you much more!

Dave.

 

[arcaxis]

BSG's warning fell on deaf ears? If that is a valve amp it MUST be loaded to around + or - 50% of the load it is set for. You are getting away with things because I suspect the levels involved are still low but, trust us, one day you will open the taps and blow the valve(s) and possibly the output transformer.

Dave.

I do agree about loading tube amps properly, however we need to know what amp s.mouse has. He had stated he is using the 'extension' speaker jack on the amp to the Zoom. To me this jack likely parallels a speaker in a combo type amp and the amp remains loaded by the existing speaker, so no harm should occur.

s.mouse, when you plug into the extension jack is there a speaker you still hear from the amp?

 

[ecc83]

I do agree about loading tube amps properly, however we need to know what amp s.mouse has. He had stated he is using the 'extension' speaker jack on the amp to the Zoom. To me this jack likely parallels a speaker in a combo type amp and the amp remains loaded by the existing speaker, so no harm should occur.

s.mouse, when you plug into the extension jack is there a speaker you still hear from the amp?

Ah! Possibly but he did say he did this to get quiet (silent?) recording. Generally, "budget" solid state guitar amps don't have speaker extension sockets because the amplifiers are not well protected. Many do however have a headphone jack that cuts the internal speaker, this is usually fed out via 100 Ohms or so but relies on the lowZ of the cans to complete the attenuation. If that is the OP's situation he just needs 1w 33 Ohm 1cent resistor! (or some cans in parallel).

Dave.

 

[s.mouse]

hi, i probably didn't explain enough, the amp is a VOX AC15 tube , im running through the extension speaker jack so the main 12inch speaker in the amp is still operating as per normal . this is the way i like to record and is more real and in the zone for myself . im still recording at home so the amp setting is not at quarter volume and this gives me ample to work with. the DI that was suggested in a earlier post has been a real winner and allowed me to feed the signal at a 20 db pan into the zoom with no apparent harm . in did connect a TRS cable across amp and zoom to see if there was any difference and there seemed to be a lift in volume and signal , which was maxing out the zoom really easy . i changed back to a TR cable and it was sweet again ,so thats what im sticking with. thanks again for the help and advice steve

 

[ecc83]

hi, i probably didn't explain enough, the amp is a VOX AC15 tube , im running through the extension speaker jack so the main 12inch speaker in the amp is still operating as per normal . this is the way i like to record and is more real and in the zone for myself . im still recording at home so the amp setting is not at quarter volume and this gives me ample to work with. the DI that was suggested in a earlier post has been a real winner and allowed me to feed the signal at a 20 db pan into the zoom with no apparent harm . in did connect a TRS cable across amp and zoom to see if there was any difference and there seemed to be a lift in volume and signal , which was maxing out the zoom really easy . i changed back to a TR cable and it was sweet again ,so thats what im sticking with. thanks again for the help and advice steve

Right, well the AC15 WAS safe but the Zoom was not! In general you can feed any piece of audio gear with any "line level" signal* without harm but SPEAKER levels, especially those from valve OP stage must never be put into inputs directly. Even that DI box (passive?) is in a bit of danger unless it is of the type that has input attenuators?

But usually people find they want to drive a valve amp harder to get a better tone and should that be the case here, look into Power Soaks (aka "attenuators" but I don't like the term attached to such devices) These alow the amp to run much harder but produce a socially acceptable speaker level. If you are handy with a solder iron and a drill, Pof P to make.

*There is no strict definition of levels but "pro" operating level is +4dBu, about a volt rms, "domestic" or hi fi level is said to be -10dBV =0.316 V rms but in practice they are found closer to 100mV. The max output of such devices is usually at least 20dB above OL i.e. 8V rms for pro level.
If that Vox has a 15 Ohm output the rms out for 15W is 15V rms and an AI blowing 42V peak to peak but! Valve amps can kick well over rated levels into real speakers and a wee 15watter could easily hit 100V pk-pk!

Dave.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

20 db pan

Pad, not pan. I'm glad it worked out for you. Normally I'd use -40dB for an amp, but if you're running the amp fairly low -20dB might be okay. I hope you're running the XLR output to the recorder and not the parallel 1/4" jack.